b_line
Well-Known Member
Tell that to Chauncey billiups. I would rather have our core four than harden, Jeremy Lin, Omer asik and whoever else they trot out down there in Texas.
Bill Simmons: Presti offered Harden for Valanciunus
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Tell that to Chauncey billiups. I would rather have our core four than harden, Jeremy Lin, Omer asik and whoever else they trot out down there in Texas.
Huh? And if Houston gets a better supporting cast (who are already quite good)? The 2004 Pistons team are the only team in the last 30 years AT LEAST to do it without a superstar. Not odds I'd* take anywhere. Houston is closer than the Jazz are
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MVP
Well-Known Member
True, but they still had B.Wallace - reigning DPOY, All-star and leading rebounding/shot blocking monster.
And you've just made num's point all the more convincing...
Precisely. They had a very nice team. One that beat the odds. I'd love to have a team like that, but to assume the Jazz can accomplish something like that is less likely than getting a superstar somehow. It sounds like most of the NBA missed out on one this offseason.
Harden is very ball dominant, and he's a volume shooter. He's also not big enough to be an above-the-rim finisher. If he's not hitting from distance, the Rockets really struggle, which is why they were mediocre this season. Remember that the Rockets finished one spot out of the playoffs last year, and they would have been the 8th seed if they didn't tank the last 10 games of their season. This year, the Rockets added Asik and Harden, both upgrades, Chandler Parsons continued to improve, but they still ended up with the 8th seed and a comparable win percentage.
Harden is a special player, but the way he plays and the effect he has overall isn't that much greater than Monta Ellis. When he's on, he's pretty awesome though.
Harden is a special player, but the way he plays and the effect he has overall isn't that much greater than Monta Ellis. When he's on, he's pretty awesome though.
Superstars tend to have the ball in their hands. He is not particularly ball dominant in that field.
That's funny because last year, all of his doubters couldn't stop talking about how his numbers weren't real because he got to basically only take perfect shots. Last year he took just 10 shots per game and scored 17 points per game which is completely insane. Now he's just a completely different player? This year he finished 3rd in PPS (behind Dwight and Durant, and ahead of everyone else [yes, including Lebron]) which of course made his TS% and eFG% also impressive. Maybe he's just a good ****ing basketball player?
Let's assume that's actually true and not just completely subjective and a poor anecdote (6' 5.25" in shoes, 6' 10.75" wingspan, 8' 7.5" reach [which makes him better measured than MOST of his peers in addition to testing out well athletically and proving it every night]), why does that matter when the production speaks for itself?
The three pointer exists and is here to stay. Sometimes you can't be scalding hot, but you look at the whole picture. Harden made 37% of over 6 three pointers a game. I don't know if you know, but that's very, very good. But yeah, sometimes you're not always scalding hot. The rest of what you're saying is conjecture.
That is hot ****ing trash. Monta Ellis sucks precisely because he takes a ton of shots and doesn't convert possessions in any special way. Harden does and has. There's a reason why no one else is putting those two in the same sentence and it's because they're more right. You can't say a player is special then immediately compare them to un-special combo guard dreck.
Why is just admitting that a player is ****ing GREAT so hard for some of you? This is ridiculous.
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Harden is a career 44% shooter, and this year he shot just under that on 17 attempts per game. When he's on, the Rockets normally win. When he's not hitting tough shots, they often lose. During the past 10 games, he shot under 40% and the Rockets lost the race for the 6th and 7th seed. What Harden is good at is getting to the line. He divebombs to the rim and most often gets the call. That's what redeems his offensive efficiency numbers. Other than that, Harden's numbers are comparable to Monta Ellis' during Monta's better years.
Again, as well as Harden has played, it didn't lead to a significant improvement in winning percentage or playoff seeding, despite Houston adding Asik and getting improved play from Chandler Parsons.
I'm sure OKC would have liked to keep Harden, but in their overall plan, he wasn't worth the max or near-max salary he wanted. That would have been too much money invested on the perimeter and not enough invested in the front line.
Any team with Harden as the #1 option is likely not getting past the first round of the playoffs.
Again, as well as Harden has played, it didn't lead to a significant improvement in winning percentage or playoff seeding, despite Houston adding Asik and getting improved play from Chandler Parsons.
I'm sure OKC would have liked to keep Harden, but in their overall plan, he wasn't worth the max or near-max salary he wanted. That would have been too much money invested on the perimeter and not enough invested in the front line.
Any team with Harden as the #1 option is likely not getting past the first round of the playoffs.
GVC
Well-Known Member
Oof.
Houston lost their 6 leading scorers from last season. 6.
Harden has a career TS% of .603. Monta has a career TS% of .526. If you dig deeper for context (looking at mysynergysports data, for example), the chasm grows wider.
Unbelievable.
Getting Traded
Banned
Either one -- Harden is 23 and a top 10, maybe even top 5 player. Would you trade either of them for DWill? Well, Harden is probably better and a lot younger.
If Harden has a good series against OKC, I'll eat crow.
b_line
Well-Known Member
The point remains that harden is probably not your guy if you are going the superstar route. Is he ever going to be as good as Kobe, lebron, or Durant? I think he might turn out to be like Carmelo or d will, and then you are hamstrung by a guy who has max money without winning a championship.
b_line
Well-Known Member
It's not an anti super star bias for me. I just am not sold on harden necessarily, but I would have loved to have him anyway. I think if you want to go with a superstar, then it better be someone like Durant, because otherwise it will end up like Carmelo Anthony.
Would harden be great on the jazz? Heck yes, especially if we still had kanter and favors. But we didn't get him. I do think that Burks and Hayward can be pretty good though.
fishonjazz
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I would trade any of our core 4 for harden (and i LOVE the cour 4) and maybe even any two of our core 4..... Hell, i wouldn't be totally pissed if we traded burks, hayward, and one of kanter/favors for him.
There are only a few players in the nba i would rather have..... lebron, durant, cp3 and that is about it. Maybe steph curry, derrick rose, or kyrie irving.
I would take harden over carmello, dwight howard, kevin love, kobe (though obviously not a young kobe), rondo, wade.
There are only a few players in the nba i would rather have..... lebron, durant, cp3 and that is about it. Maybe steph curry, derrick rose, or kyrie irving.
I would take harden over carmello, dwight howard, kevin love, kobe (though obviously not a young kobe), rondo, wade.
Wow. I'd take DWill back before signing Harden. DWill at least makes players around him better.
Well......Harden is looking pretty awesome at the moment. 
No. He can't guard anything but Cs, can't play in an offense, and I doubt one of the cutting edge teams in advanced analytics is looking to buy on a guy that is terrible by most measures of advanced statistics.