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OKC/Jazz Trade

NUMBERICA said:
* The Thunder own a number of interesting picks over the next two years and there are a number of believable scenarios here. In chronological order:
-12th pick in 2013 (from the Raptors via Houston [Harden trade], maybe swapping places in the late lottery is something to negotiate)
-29th pick in 2013 (their own)
-32nd pick in 2013 (from the Bobcats via Houston [Harden trade])
-Mavericks 1st rounder (top-20 protected through 2017, unprotected in 2018)
-Their own pick next year and beyond (this would likely be protected)
There are likely more that I don't know about (or aren't really worth mentioning)

** Presti completely out-thought himself here. Ibaka is important and they already had Westbrook and Durant under contract. So where would the money come from to pay Harden? PERKINS! They could've traded him. They could've amnestied him. They had an entire offseason, the '12-'13 season, and half of the next season to figure it out and they got jumpy. That they either over-valued Perkins or were scared they couldn't get rid of him and weren't willing to amnesty him might have cost them a championship at the end of the day. You never trade a dollar for three quarters unless you HAVE to, and the Thunder didn't. Even if Harden still puts them a little over the LT down the road, that's probably the cost of a championship anyway, besides all of the revenue that being a perennial contender that people want to watch brings.
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trading harden might have cost them the championship this year or the next.(barring major injuries ofcouerse eg westbrooks ligament)
 
NUMBERICA said:
To me, there is only one realistic option.
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Wait for better assets to become available that don't require giving up a piece that could help a division rival compete for a title?

Reggie Jackson? Perry Jones? Late 1sts? Stupid.
 
GVC said:
Wait for better assets to become available that don't require giving up a piece that could help a division rival compete for a title?

Reggie Jackson? Perry Jones? Late 1sts? Stupid.
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Calm down. There isn't a better realistic option than parlaying the space into assets, not necessarily this option. Also, waiting around for something to happen is as much or more of a gamble. And do you think the Jazz are playing for a title in the next two years anyway?

Stupid.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Calm down. There isn't a better realistic option than parlaying the space into assets, not necessarily this one. And do you think the Jazz are playing for a title in the next two years anyway?
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I don't think Jackson/Jones/Late 1sts are enough. Better to wait until a desperate team with valuable assets comes along. I'd rather take the risk of getting nothing than pull this trade.
 
GVC said:
I don't think Jackson/Jones/Late 1sts are enough. Better to wait until a desperate team with valuable assets comes along. I'd rather take the risk of getting nothing than pull this trade.
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And if the Jazz still have $20 million in cap space in addition to Marvin Williams' expiring? They can't orchestrate more than one of these? What team that will be desperate to shed salary will have more valuable assets (since most contenders are high salaried, asset-depleted, and don't part with players integral to what they're doing)?
 
NUMBERICA said:
And if the Jazz still have $20 million in cap space and can do both?
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How would you know that if you waste $10mm up front? If Perkins were expiring, maybe, but not. If the Jazz were getting decent pieces, maybe, but they're not.
 
I see no reason to blow nearly $20mm of cap space over two years for bench players.
 
GVC said:
How would you know that if you waste $10mm up front? If Perkins were expiring, maybe, but this deal is no good. If the Jazz were getting decent pieces, maybe, but they're not.
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If the Jazz don't spend money in free agency that they shouldn't (which should be close to practically nothing unless Chris Paul wants to sign), they should have $20 million in space AFTER getting Perk in addition to Marvin Williams expiring.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Jazz trades:
-Al (S/T)
-Maybe other minor stuff as part of negotiation

OKC trades:
-Goodies they don't need (some mixture of Reggie Jackson, Perry Jones, and/or draft picks*)
-Kendrick Perkins**


The Jazz will have a ton of cap space that they should utilize as they will be paying close to the entire cap no matter what (https://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q15) and my view is the best the Jazz can do with the space is to facilitate savings for a team that needs it and grab some assets along the way (much like how Presti got many of his and how the Jazz got Hayward).

The Thunder are getting crap out of Perkins and already have Ibaka and Collison as defensive bigs. They pretty desperately need someone that can reliably score inside. Since most of their offense is just isos, Jefferson actually might not hugely impact how they operate their team offense as long as he either doesn't take as many shots, or takes most of them against the second unit. He can guard the post, so he's not necessarily a liability considering that the Thunder can get good help elsewhere. As for his salary impacting the Thunder, I really don't think his market-value is generally that high and, again, the Thunder would've been paying Perkins close to $10 million over the next two seasons anyway.


Who says no?
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The Thunder say no.

They need a big man with natural offensive ability who can also scrap, not an offensively dominant player like Jefferson. I think they will get someone like a Zeller, Olynyk, or Bennet in the draft.
 
NUMBERICA said:
And if the Jazz still have $20 million in cap space in addition to Marvin Williams' expiring? They can't orchestrate more than one of these? What team that will be desperate to shed salary will have more valuable assets (since most contenders are high salaried, asset-depleted, and don't part with players integral to what they're doing)?
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High salary teams that aren't true contenders.
 
NUMBERICA said:
If the Jazz don't spend money in free agency that they shouldn't (which should be close to practically nothing unless Chris Paul wants to sign), they should have $20 million in space AFTER getting Perk in addition to Marvin Williams expiring.
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$30mm is better than $20mm. The Jazz could also potentially be players in free agency/one of these deals next year as well (depending on what happens with Favors and Hayward). The Jazz are getting nothing of value in this deal.
 
GVC said:
$30mm is better than $20mm. The Jazz could also potentially be players in free agency/one of these deals next year as well (depending on what happens with Favors and Hayward). The Jazz are getting nothing of value in this deal.
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And that's where realism comes into play. Potentially. But what kind of potential? Carlos Boozer is the highest-profile player that the Jazz have ever grabbed in free agency and he wasn't nearly the commodity on that market as the player he became with Utah. Putting your faith in free agency as a Jazz fan is about as fickle as anything in fandom.

Carlos Boozer who, by the way, was a 2nd round pick. And Memo.
 
i would hate to have perkins on my team. srsly donno if i could root for da jazz, i loathe perkins. i abhor him.
 
GVC said:
Frequently late 1sts and 2nds can be bought. No need to take on two years of Perkins if that's the only thing the Jazz are getting.
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Except the Jazz would likely be spending $3 million a pop for those* and only from those selling whereas they wouldn't be spending any money to get Perkins. That's besides that OKC's lottery pick this year might be in play, or a pick in a supposed great draft next year. Or that the Jazz could sell the picks they get here and turn a tangible profit.


*Have the Jazz ever done this, and if so, when and for how much? I'm all but positive we won't see that happen unless they are absolutely in love with a player.
 
One other thing, the Jazz have THIS offseason to turn Jefferson into an asset and I don't think the market is big (you have to find a team over the cap, wanting to win now, willing to tolerate and work around his deficiencies, willing to pay him, and have a player making enough money to make salaries work that they don't want, and - last but certainly not least -he has to want to go there*). They've waited as long as they can to turn him into anything they can work with moving forward.

Unless someone wants to re-sign him which... ugh...

*Teams that might fit the bill here, OKC (most glaringly), New York (even more asset-depleted than OKC), Denver?, Golden State, uhh... Clippers?
 
Jazz shouldn't make a deal just to get to the salary floor. There's no real value for the Jazz in this deal. It's pretty much pointless and lateral. Lose some financial flexibility for minor assets. The #12 MIGHT have some use, but that's it. None of those other items is enticing enough to take a significantly weighted negative.
 
Darkwing Duck said:
Jazz shouldn't make a deal just to get to the salary floor. There's no real value for the Jazz in this deal. It's pretty much pointless and lateral. Lose some financial flexibility for minor assets. The #12 MIGHT have some use, but that's it. None of those other items is enticing enough to take a significantly weighted negative.
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It's not just to get to the salary floor and it won't get them even close. What does flexibility get you if free agency is a complete pie-in-the-sky notion? The positives to the idea are tangible and real, the negatives are complete guesswork.
 
NUMBERICA said:
It's not just to get to the salary floor and it won't get them even close. What does flexibility get you if free agency is a complete pie-in-the-sky notion?
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So what's the point then? OKC has ZERO incentive to give up draft picks for an high usage, bad defense playing center. They lost because of injury, not because they lacked offense. I'd bet they'd part with unimportant role players, to which it makes no point for the Jazz, since the Jazz can sign similar quality players AND get to the salary floor through free agency.
 
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