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More Muslim violence in Europe

Qur'an says to kill Kafirs only in self defense, it specifically states not to kill peaceful unbelievers. It says not only to give peace back to peaceful unbelievers but to protect them as well.
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You are a joke. In what self defense muslims killed 270 mil africans, christians, hindus and buddhists when converting them to islam and invading their lands? Look at the islamic countries map. It started in Arabia and took over christian, hindu or buddhist lands via what? Self defense?
Here is a question for you - was prophet Muhammad peaceful man like Jesus or Buddha for example?

And since you will lie ( or maybe you do not know) I will provide an answer

Muhammad was a narcissist, a pedophile, a mass murderer,
a terrorist, a misogynist, a lecher, a cult leader, a madman
a rapist, a torturer, an assassin and a looter."

Former Muslim Ali Sina offered $50,000 to anyone
who could prove otherwise based on Islamic texts.

The reward has gone unclaimed.
 
Nice straw man I never said atheists are killing people for leaving atheism. So you resort to straw manning me... Atheism are killing people because atheists don't value human life. Many atheists do value human life but let me guess those atheists that don't value aren't "true atheists." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman. If I were to say "those Muslims that kill others aren't true Muslims" you will throw the no true scotsman fallacy at me but when it is done on your side you most likely will irrationally give them a free pass.

I asked you a question. I even quoted your entire post as I see that matters to you.

Can you explain this statement again
There aren't millions/thousands/hundreds of people dieing to it every year like there is under atheist regimes so it is a very minor point I will concede to.
I read that as atheist regimes are killing people for atheism more than Muslim regimes are killing people over Islam.

Not trying to straw-man you dog. Although you seem to always want to argue over logical fallacies instead of the idiotic crap you spew (oh no, ad-hominem attack alert).
 
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Here's lookin at you, USA.

USA crashed planes into skyscapers in the ME?

Americans force women to marry their rapists (or face death)?

The closest thing to this would have been that ridiculous "legitimate rape" nonsense spewed by that one Representative. He lost his election and no legislation was ever passed. I'm one of the most critical of American foreign policy but rationalizing the complete backwards societies created and maintained by Islamic states to American's intrusion throughout the world is ridiculous.
 
Blatant Cherry picking. In 2004 the FBI sent an agent in a California Mosque pretending to be a radical Muslim. He got reported by people from the mosque shortly. I posted the link before on this website I can go searching for it again if you please.

270 million people in 1400 years compared to the 100 million in the last century from atheists/ antireligion.

I get tired of the whole crusades/Spanish Inquisition comparisons.

It's funny that Muslims must go 500+ years into the past to point out Christian mass intolerance and cruelty while Christians need to go 500+ years into the past to point out Muslim tolerance and charity. One must go 500 years into the past to see Christian "darkness" while one must go 500+ years into the past to see Muslim "enlightenment."

Look at how western countries, once dominated by theocracies, have changed over the past 500 years! Look at how they have progressed in just 100 years. Meanwhile, look at how much eastern muslin countries have regressed over 500 years... Look at how the entire landscape of the ME has changed in just 100 years!

There once was a time when women had rights. They could own property, create schools, and actually had legal power. There was a time in the Ottoman Empire when education, science, music, and culture wasn't seen as a threat to Islam. In fact, if one were to go back in time 500+ years and compared Christian nations vs Islamic nations, one would see a complete reversal of what we see today. 500+ years ago, religion ruled Christian nations and science was condemned. How many scientists, reformers, civil rights advocates, writers, and other intellectuals were tortured and killed by Christian rulers? Yet, at the same time, culture was flourishing in the east! Science, math, music, women's rights, etc were progressing along!

Muslim nations were the beacon of hope and freedom whereas Christian nations were seen as oppressive, backwards, and completely lacking in culture.

Then... It all changed.

Western cultures began to embrace science and writing during the enlightenment.

Empires began to become more secular as theocracies were rejected. The east began to lose political and economic power. Instead of playing ball with the rest of us, they rejected the very qualities and assets which helped power their dominance for hundreds of years. Like a bunch of poor sports, they stopped embracing math and science, rules regarding women changed, and governments became more intolerant.

While the west embraced math and science as their savior, the east blamed it for their downfall.

Again, just look at the last 100 years. As the west embraced science, secularism, women's rights, the east as rejected them. The most severe Islamic states look to "bring back the good times" by becoming even more radical and intolerant. "Well gee, if science is what got us into this mess well then surely embracing an ultra-conservative form of Islam will bring us back the old power and glory for sure!"

That seems to be the prevailing attitude of so many Muslims today.

One of my biggest beefs with Muslims today is... Why the hell are western societies the ones advocating women's rights? Where are the "tolerant" Muslims? If Islam is so peaceful, then why the hell aren't they marching in masses to protest the violence throughout the middle east? If they aren't "backwards" then why aren't they embracing culture? Instead, we see the complete opposite. they're always the victims of unfair "western" exploiters. Wah wah wah.

Look at yourself in the mirror damn it! Western powers aren't forcing you to kill women, marry their rapists, or execute homosexuals. We aren't forcing you to arrange your marriages.

You can't keep blaming everything on the US and Israel. The "Great Satan" isn't the west. The "Great Satan" is yourself.


https://www.academia.edu/193378/Women_in_the_Ottoman_Empire

The Mihrimah mosque in Edirne(Adrianople), Thrace, begun in 1555 under the patronage of Hürrem Sultan's daughter, was designed and executed by the greatest Ottoman architect of the early-modern era, Sinan. The Yeni Valide Mosque in Istanbul, begun in 1598 by Safiye Sultan, is another dazzling example of royal women'sarchitectural patronage

Ottoman women also created numerous awqaf (plural of “waqf”; pious, charitable institutions), which might include schools, hospitals, caravansaries, baths, fountains, soup kitchens, hostels, and mosques.Royal women were especially active in establishing charitable foundations throughout the empire, financed by their own ample personal resources.

As their charitable activities suggest, women also played a significant role in the Ottoman economy.Women were important landholders; some even held timars (military fiefs). They could inherit and apportion property, and they often played an active role in managing their own wealth. Women borrowed and lent money, served as tax farmers (private tax collectors), and entered into a variety of business partnerships.... They had the right to control property, and neither fathers nor husbands could make use of this property without their consent.
 
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...Look at how the entire landscape of the ME has changed in just 100 years!

There once was a time when women had rights. They could own property, create schools, and actually had legal power. There was a time in the Ottoman Empire when education, science, music, and culture wasn't seen as a threat to Islam. In fact, if one were to go back in time 500+ years and compared Christian nations vs Islamic nations, one would see a complete reversal of what we see today. 500+ years ago, religion ruled Christian nations and science was condemned. How many scientists, reformers, civil rights advocates, writers, and other intellectuals were tortured and killed by Christian rulers? Yet, at the same time, culture was flourishing in the east! Science, math, music, women's rights, etc were progressing along...

we owe ZERO to the Arab world, literally ZERO. And for that, just about everything. Without the Arabic numeral system, we might very well still be tallying things up with C's and V's and M's and I's - - and not a placeholder in the bunch.

I've always found it very interesting to consider where we would be without zero.
 
Israel-Palestine conflict isn't one side saying "Moses was the greater prophet" and the other side saying "No Muhammad is the greater prophet" and then killing each other. It is over land. Ireland with the Catholics and protestants it is over who controls the country. India and Pakistan? Over Kashmir. Even Osama Bin Laden blew up the twin towers because he felt America was invading Arabs. Even if the whole world was one religion or irreligion there would be people fighting over the same things. Whenever an atheist kills you write it up for "oh it is other political reasons not atheism" whenever Muslims kills you automatically blame Islam and not political reasons.

So Osama was really just a misunderstood Gandhi now? Is that what Muslims are saying?

If Osama really wanted to get the USA out of Saudi Arabia, why didn't he use his power and resources to protest his own government? Why not get on his own people for doing so much damn business with the USA? And did Osama and his people really not benefit from doing business with the USA? Really? So Saudi Arabia and so many other nations in the ME never ever ever benefited from doing business with the west?

Instead, Osama Bin Laden did the dumbest thing in perhaps the history of the world. I mean, hell, even Hitler, who invaded the Soviet Union in the fall, is laughing at Osama's stupidity!
So he wanted the USA out of the the ME.... So his plan was to do the ONLY thing that would guarantee continued American presence throughout the ME: Attack the United States directly, on its home soil.

Seriously?

And what did he hope to accomplish?

Lets assume that everything had gone to plan. Best case scenario for Osama: Lets assume that the Twin Towers go down and the shockwave takes out half the New York city. Wall Street, the Empire State Building, whatever, is gone. Lets assume that the Pentagon is destroyed. Lets assume that the other plane, which crashed in Pennsylvania, takes out the White House. Millions flock to Osama's side because this attack was just so... "Inspirational."

So you have half of New York gone.
The US Pentagon is destroyed.
And the entire Executive Branch is gone.

Is that really going to keep the US from coming and kicking ***? Is this really going to prevent western Democracies from uniting against you? Is this really going to help your cause?

Essentially, prior to WWII, it would have been like one of Poland's Dukes, trying to gain peace with Germany by coming over into Berlin wearing a yellow star on the chest and waving a red Communist flag, and kicking one of Hitler's dogs in the head.

If Arabic countries really want the US out of the ME, they should do 4 things:

#1 Embrace change. Become more tolerant. Stop treating women like toilets. Embrace math and science. Play by the same game we are playing. Look at how Japan went from being a backwards nation (prior to opening up to the west in the late 19th century), to incredibly radical and intolerant nation (early-mid 20th century), to a thriving and tolerant democracy today.
#2 Stop making yourselves so rich off selling oil.
#3 Stop threatening Israel. You folks don't realize that the more you pose a threat to Israel the more the US will support them. If there isn't any threat to Israel then the US will have no choice but to lower its' own influence.
#4 Similar to #3, stop being so radical and stop associating yourselves with terrorist organizations and groups. Again, you're just giving us an excuse to place armies at your doorstep, bases in your country, and ships in your oceans.
 
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we owe ZERO to the Arab world, literally ZERO. And for that, just about everything. Without the Arabic numeral system, we might very well still be tallying things up with C's and V's and M's and I's - - and not a placeholder in the bunch.

I've always found it very interesting to consider where we would be without zero.

Exactly.

Again.... Lets assume you know NOTHING about the modern era. Lets assume you just could compare the 2 different ideologies/geographic locations 500 years ago. If you had to take a guess, which one would be thriving in an international market, invented the Atomic bomb, traveled to the moon, etc, and embraced civil rights and Democracy, you would 100 % of the time guessed Middle Eastern countries/remnants of the Ottoman Empire.

If you had to guess which countries would have sucked economically, rejected science, and lived in intolerant theocratic governments, you would have guessed western and central Europe.

My oh my, how things have changed since the enlightenment...

Could you imagine what would have been of the United States of America had Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, etc been theocratic Muslims? What would have happened had Locke, instead of advocating for Life, Liberty, and property, declared for something like... Rejection of science, rejection of culture, and the quest of Jihad against the infidels?
 
More typical muslim "honor" nonsense. This time father kills son because he was gay. And that's in Turkey... country which supposed to be more western and less brainwashed by radical islamists.

https://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/f...-case.aspx?PageID=238&NID=47579&NewsCatID=341

I don't consider myself to be a Muslim basher, and think that in general their religion is just as valid as any other one, but I will say it does bug me when I hear stories like this and see how their women are treated in their societies and that there is no huge widespread outrage among most of their populace.
 
Exactly.

Again.... Lets assume you know NOTHING about the modern era. Lets assume you just could compare the 2 different ideologies/geographic locations 500 years ago. If you had to take a guess, which one would be thriving in an international market, invented the Atomic bomb, traveled to the moon, etc, and embraced civil rights and Democracy, you would 100 % of the time guessed Middle Eastern countries/remnants of the Ottoman Empire.

If you had to guess which countries would have sucked economically, rejected science, and lived in intolerant theocratic governments, you would have guessed western and central Europe.

My oh my, how things have changed since the enlightenment...

Could you imagine what would have been of the United States of America had Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, etc been theocratic Muslims? What would have happened had Locke, instead of advocating for Life, Liberty, and property, declared for something like... Rejection of science, rejection of culture, and the quest of Jihad against the infidels?

I think you missed something...
 
USA crashed planes into skyscapers in the ME?

Americans force women to marry their rapists (or face death)?

The closest thing to this would have been that ridiculous "legitimate rape" nonsense spewed by that one Representative. He lost his election and no legislation was ever passed. I'm one of the most critical of American foreign policy but rationalizing the complete backwards societies created and maintained by Islamic states to American's intrusion throughout the world is ridiculous.

Just because the U.S. didn't do those things and because we feel better about the positives and negative of our culture over the positives and negatives of theirs doesn't mean there isn't significant room for improvement here. And I for one don't need the ME to be perfect before I want to start making those improvements.
 
I can tell we have a lot of fox news watchers here in Jazzfanz as I give you FBI statistics, Quranic verses and data to support my points and you guys simply ignore everything I say and say that you are right and I am wrong when you have no evidence backing what you say.

About Muhammad being a pedophile. Muhammad was 25 years old when he married his first wife. His wife was 40 years old at the time, 15 years older than him. There are multiple hadiths that say this from multiple narrations. There is only 1 narrator that says that Muhammad married a 9 year old later in his life. That haddith was said by an 80 year old (who Never Met Aisha or Muhammad btw, this he supposedly heard this) and the Haddith itself says that he had faulty memory. You throw something like this when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand for shock. It is ok cornered rats do act desperate in situations.

Thriller, Osama hated the Saudi government. He used to be a great friend of Saudi government due to his wealth and influence. However when Saudi started letting Americans on its soil Osama soured toward the government.

To Thrillers numbers:

to #1 in Qatar has the fastest growing economy in the world, Turkey is like number 6 or 7ish. Muslim countries are accepting science and math don't worry.

#2 Paradox of the plenty

#3 Stop defending against Israel occupation?

#4 Add up how many terrorists there are in Al-Qaeda, the Taliban, and those other terrorists groups. You will get a number less then .01% of the Muslim population.

Gameface it is very obvious that Atheist regimes have killed way more than Islam. Pol Pot killed 2 million. Osama Bin Laden killed less than 3 thousand on 9/11.
 
About Muhammad being a pedophile. Muhammad was 25 years old when he married his first wife. His wife was 40 years old at the time, 15 years older than him. There are multiple hadiths that say this from multiple narrations. There is only 1 narrator that says that Muhammad married a 9 year old later in his life. That haddith was said by an 80 year old (who Never Met Aisha or Muhammad btw, this he supposedly heard this) and the Haddith itself says that he had faulty memory. .

In the span of a dozen years, he married eleven women and had access to an array of sex slaves. When he wanted a woman, even if she were the wife of another man, his own daughter-in-law, or a child as young as 6-years-old , Muhammad was able to justify his lust and inevitable consummation with an appeal to Allah’s revealed will for his sex life - which was then preserved forever in the Quran, to be faithfully memorized by future generations for whom it has no possible relevance.

The first verse of Sura 66 is a good example of this. It was narrated by Muhammad to his wives shortly after two of them pressured him into not visiting a favorite sex slave:

O Prophet! why do you forbid (yourself) that which Allah has made lawful for you, seeking to please your wives? (Quran 66:1)

Allah (according to Muhammad) was so upset with his prophet for denying himself an afternoon of pleasure with the concubine that Allah had provided for him that it was a good thing for Muhammad that Allah was a forgiving and merciful god! (For the Muslim faithful, it must surely be a source of embarrassment that Allah evidently had more interest in Muhammad's personal sex life than he did about tolerance or universal love. The god of Islam encourages sex with slaves in several other places as well).

Muhammad set the example by marrying and having sex with Aisha when she was only 9-years-old:

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: “Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine.” (Sahih Muslim 3309) This is confirmed in many other hadith as well.

According to the most reliable traditions, Aisha brought her dolls to Muhammad’s house for play and he would fondle the little girl in the tub while taking baths with her. Aisha was just a teenager by the time Muhammad died, but she had already spent over half her life in marriage to him

Even worse for Muslims is that part of the Qur’an was actually “revealed” while Muhammad was in bed with this little girl:

[Muhammad said] "…the Divine Inspirations do not come to me on any of the beds except that of Aisha." (Bukhari 47:755)
 
These types of threads always discourage me when I see the overt bigotry on such display. I have a bit more background than others in this area (it doesn't make me an expert but gives me perspective) as I have worked in a number of Muslim countries in North Africa, South Asia, Central Asia, and the Middle East. Without exception, the people I have worked with have been friendly, courteous, and just normal folks like you and me. Almost all were Muslim, some devout (e.g., would interrupt meetings to pray, actually we continued talking while different people took turns going into the corner to pray), some were not devout (a good friend in Bangladesh who had an alcohol collection par none). A real eye opener, and one in my naiveté I really didn't expect, was when I worked several weeks in the West Bank. In my opinion, the Palestinians have very legitimate grips against Israel (it cuts both ways, not saying it's one sided), but without exception, when I talked to them their greatest desire was just to end the conflict and get on with their lives. Not a single radical among them, just normal folk. I'm not naive myself, I know there are lots of bad people out there, and lots of bad people who claim the mantel of Islam and who use this mantel for their own purposes or deluded means, but I don't see them. I just see normal people like you and me struggling on a day to day basis to live and derive some happiness from their lives. They're not saints or devils, just . . . people covering the entire spectrum of bad to good, just like here in the good ol' US and just like everywhere else.

Now, there are definitely things about some practice of Islam I don't like, particularly how it hyper sexualizes and, in my opinion, oppresses women. I frankly hate this, and it's hard for me to see it. I have hope, however, that this will change over time, particularly if Islamic countries can ever figure out the balanced economic growth thing and women get more education, participate more in the economy, political, and social life--the same gradual change we went through here. Some countries I have higher hopes for than others. I reasonably certain, though, that isolated the Muslim world will not accomplish this objective. As I see it, the biggest risk, and greatest cause of the West's problems with Islam, is the aimlessness and lack of jobs/opportunities among its young men, which makes them quite susceptible to radicalization of older, evil, manipulative men. Women do get radicalized, but dime to dollar you see an example of Islamist terror/violence, and its a young man in 20s or early 30s. Then there's also the old guard, hard core traditionalists not well suited to moder life, much like you see, in my opinion, among the old school Evangelicals in the US (one of the hot beds of bigotry in this country, though not defining by any means of the enire group).

I could address all the other arguments that I think are faulty in this thread (e.g., atheism at fault for mass murder--this is one of the biggest red herrings), the pass given to the widespread nature of Christian bigotry, oppression, and violence, that moderate Muslims are not speaking out (they do but you're not likely to hear about it from Fox news) and so forth. But I'm just so sick to death of people painting an entire population of, literally, billions of people by the bad deeds of a small handful.
 
In the span of a dozen years, he married eleven women and had access to an array of sex slaves. When he wanted a woman, even if she were the wife of another man, his own daughter-in-law, or a child as young as 6-years-old , Muhammad was able to justify his lust and inevitable consummation with an appeal to Allah’s revealed will for his sex life - which was then preserved forever in the Quran, to be faithfully memorized by future generations for whom it has no possible relevance.

The first verse of Sura 66 is a good example of this. It was narrated by Muhammad to his wives shortly after two of them pressured him into not visiting a favorite sex slave:

O Prophet! why do you forbid (yourself) that which Allah has made lawful for you, seeking to please your wives? (Quran 66:1)

Allah (according to Muhammad) was so upset with his prophet for denying himself an afternoon of pleasure with the concubine that Allah had provided for him that it was a good thing for Muhammad that Allah was a forgiving and merciful god! (For the Muslim faithful, it must surely be a source of embarrassment that Allah evidently had more interest in Muhammad's personal sex life than he did about tolerance or universal love. The god of Islam encourages sex with slaves in several other places as well).

Muhammad set the example by marrying and having sex with Aisha when she was only 9-years-old:

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: “Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine.” (Sahih Muslim 3309) This is confirmed in many other hadith as well.

According to the most reliable traditions, Aisha brought her dolls to Muhammad’s house for play and he would fondle the little girl in the tub while taking baths with her. Aisha was just a teenager by the time Muhammad died, but she had already spent over half her life in marriage to him

Even worse for Muslims is that part of the Qur’an was actually “revealed” while Muhammad was in bed with this little girl:

[Muhammad said] "…the Divine Inspirations do not come to me on any of the beds except that of Aisha." (Bukhari 47:755)

Its a shame I have to respond to your pathetic response after Jimmy's brilliant post (which I don't agree with entirely but still respect).

Give me a single haddith not narrated by that 80 year old man who bukhari mentioned had faulty memory. There is none. There are multiple haddiths written but every single one of them has the same narrator.

You simply got utterly defeated on the debate of whether or not Islam is violent and have resorted to slander and lies on Prophet Muhammad.

The only Qur'an verse you quoted was a verse that says to please your wives. Really? Thats your damning verse of the Qur'an?? I guess in atheism pleasing your wives aren't encouraged but in Islam it is.
 
These types of threads always discourage me when I see the overt bigotry on such display. I have a bit more background than others in this area (it doesn't make me an expert but gives me perspective) as I have worked in a number of Muslim countries in North Africa, South Asia, Central Asia, and the Middle East. Without exception, the people I have worked with have been friendly, courteous, and just normal folks like you and me. Almost all were Muslim, some devout (e.g., would interrupt meetings to pray, actually we continued talking while different people took turns going into the corner to pray), some were not devout (a good friend in Bangladesh who had an alcohol collection par none). A real eye opener, and one in my naiveté I really didn't expect, was when I worked several weeks in the West Bank. In my opinion, the Palestinians have very legitimate grips against Israel (it cuts both ways, not saying it's one sided), but without exception, when I talked to them their greatest desire was just to end the conflict and get on with their lives. Not a single radical among them, just normal folk. I'm not naive myself, I know there are lots of bad people out there, and lots of bad people who claim the mantel of Islam and who use this mantel for their own purposes or deluded means, but I don't see them. I just see normal people like you and me struggling on a day to day basis to live and derive some happiness from their lives. They're not saints or devils, just . . . people covering the entire spectrum of bad to good, just like here in the good ol' US and just like everywhere else.

Now, there are definitely things about some practice of Islam I don't like, particularly how it hyper sexualizes and, in my opinion, oppresses women. I frankly hate this, and it's hard for me to see it. I have hope, however, that this will change over time, particularly if Islamic countries can ever figure out the balanced economic growth thing and women get more education, participate more in the economy, political, and social life--the same gradual change we went through here. Some countries I have higher hopes for than others. I reasonably certain, though, that isolated the Muslim world will not accomplish this objective. As I see it, the biggest risk, and greatest cause of the West's problems with Islam, is the aimlessness and lack of jobs/opportunities among its young men, which makes them quite susceptible to radicalization of older, evil, manipulative men. Women do get radicalized, but dime to dollar you see an example of Islamist terror/violence, and its a young man in 20s or early 30s. Then there's also the old guard, hard core traditionalists not well suited to moder life, much like you see, in my opinion, among the old school Evangelicals in the US (one of the hot beds of bigotry in this country, though not defining by any means of the enire group).

I could address all the other arguments that I think are faulty in this thread (e.g., atheism at fault for mass murder--this is one of the biggest red herrings), the pass given to the widespread nature of Christian bigotry, oppression, and violence, that moderate Muslims are not speaking out (they do but you're not likely to hear about it from Fox news) and so forth. But I'm just so sick to death of people painting an entire population of, literally, billions of people by the bad deeds of a small handful.

It is not fair to judge Islam on Osama Bin Laden, Hussein, etc. How do you like it if I judge Atheism and/or antireligion on Pol Pot, Mao,Hitler, and Stalin. This is what I am saying. You guys than quickly point out how you hate being judged on Pol Pot etc.

In regards to woman no where in the Qur'an is the word Hijab mentioned.
 
It is not fair to judge Islam on Osama Bin Laden, Hussein, etc. How do you like it if I judge Atheism and/or antireligion on Pol Pot, Mao,Hitler, and Stalin. This is what I am saying. You guys than quickly point out how you hate being judged on Pol Pot etc.

Atheism is now an organized movement? You're stupider than I thought.
 
Atheism is now an organized movement? You're stupider than I thought.

Where did I say atheism is an organized movement? Straw manned me here. Wait until you are 12 or 13 years old before you debate me btw by than you will develop some sort of rationality and won't be as defeated as easily hopefully.
 
Where did I say atheism is an organized movement? Straw manned me here. Wait until you are 12 or 13 years old before you debate me btw by than you will develop some sort of rationality and won't be as defeated as easily hopefully.

You stated that it's unfair to judge Muslims because they belong to the same organized community as Osama or Saddam and then you compare that to judging atheists based on belonging to what, exactly? Being a Muslim is a choice. You can choose to be a part of the Muslim community or not. I can't choose whether Pol Pot also happens to lack belief in the same fairy tales I do.
 
You stated that it's unfair to judge Muslims because they belong to the same organized community as Osama or Saddam and then you compare that to judging atheists based on belonging to what, exactly? Being a Muslim is a choice. You can choose to be a part of the Muslim community or not. I can't choose whether Pol Pot also happens to lack belief in the same fairy tales I do.

Atheists are quick to point out when an atheist charity raises money, when a less religious country like Sweden or Norway is successful and they indirectly imply or often even directly state that them lacking religion has helped them. Whenever something is done good by atheists atheism gets credit. When atheists have done bad (and boy some of them really have) atheists quickly shout and insist you cannot blame atheism for their actions. If Islam has to take the blame for Osama, atheism has to take the blame for Pol Pot, Stalin etc. If an atheist scientist is successful in science atheists laud how he is an atheist and keep bringing up people like Osama is a Muslim (most famous scientists are very much theists btw). A complete double standard.

And about the fairy tale comment....

Quran 6:25

And among them are those who listen to you, but We have placed over their hearts coverings, lest they understand it, and in their ears deafness. And if they should see every sign, they will not believe in it. Even when they come to you arguing with you, those who disbelieve say, "This is not but legends of the former peoples."

The Qur'an predicts people lacking in rationality will irrationally without evidence reject Islam and declare it to be fairy tales. Thanks for proving another verse of the Qur'an to be 100% true.
 
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