Official Jazz workouts thread

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

In terms of a physical comparison, Wolters is quite similar to Kirk Hinrich--an inch taller, but a couple inches less wingspan. Same standing reach. If Wolters will play hard on defense, I think he'll be able to defend most PGs well enough. Wolters is a craftier scorer and passer than Hinrich though, and closer to a pure PG.

 

[idiot]

Watching this all I see is ALLEN IVERSON! His game will translate very well to NBA. BUT, I don't think he can guard any one.

Can't see Iverson at all in Larkin. Completely different. I think Larkin might drive well enough to keep defenses honest but he'll live and die in the NBA on his jumpshot.

 

[Sexual Favors]

I think realistically, we're looking to trade up for McCollum, draft Schroeder at 14, and are really considering Wolters at #21, with other back-up plans in each scenario.....like Zeller, Shabazz, Saric, Bullock and Dieng.

Oh god, I would cry tears of joy if this was our draft. (Had these three as my top 3 choices for a while now. Check the sig).

 

[idiot]

In terms of a physical comparison, Wolters is quite similar to Kirk Hinrich--an inch taller, but a couple inches less wingspan. Same standing reach. If Wolters will play hard on defense, I think he'll be able to defend most PGs well enough. Wolters is a craftier scorer and passer than Hinrich though, and closer to a pure PG.

Yeah, I can see that comparison and think that Wolters may end up as the craftier offensive player. But I don't think Wolters is the athlete Hinrich is and will surely never be the defender Hinrich is.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Yeah, I can see that comparison and think that Wolters may end up as the craftier offensive player. But I don't think Wolters is the athlete Hinrich is and will surely never be the defender Hinrich is.

That's precisely what he's going to have to work hard on if he wants to be an impact player in the league. He'll have to work on his body, his agility and his defensive discipline.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Oh god, I would cry tears of joy if this was our draft. (Had these three as my top 3 choices for a while now. Check the sig).

I'm trying to prepare myself mentally in case they draft Saric.

 

[spycam1]

I think realistically, we're looking to trade up for McCollum, draft Schroeder at 14, and are really considering Wolters at #21, with other back-up plans in each scenario.....like Zeller, Shabazz, Saric, Bullock and Dieng.

Wait, we're going to get McCollum AND Schroeder somehow?

 

[Sexual Favors]

If we traded burks post draft we could get both. I'm not sure it is worth it. I'm inclined to hold judgement on Burks until I see a season of him in a consistent rotation. I thought he was doing great when he had consistent minutes playing pg, but then he was rusty as hell when his minutes were stripped and he got those DNP's.

 

[d@!!0n0rcutt]

Edit: Sorry for the spacing issues, it looks good in the message box until it's actually posted

Stat comparisons (per 40 pace adjusted) for commonly made player comparisons – Lawson vs Larkin; Fredette vs. Wolters

Lawson is slightly bigger/longer. Larkin measured as somewhat better athlete.

Lawson vs. Larkin after sophomore year (both age 20, in same conference, both high quality teams):
Pts 17.7 16.4
FG% 51.5 47.9
2p% 58.2 53.8
3p% 36.1 40.6
FTA 5.0 3.5
Reb 3.8 4.3
Asts 7.2 5.1
Stls 2.2 2.2
TOs 3.1 2.6
TS% 62 60
P/pos 1.16 1.06
A/TO 2.36 2.00

Wolters is 2.75” taller, has 0.75” shorter wingspan and 1.5” higher reach than Fredette. Athletic comparison not available because of Wolters’s injury in Combine.

Fredette vs. Wolters senior year (both 21 at draft; Jimmer played somewhat tougher competition)
Pts 30.0 24.0
FG% 45.2 48.0
2p% 49.1 53.2
3p% 39.6 38.0
FTA 7.9 7.6
Reb 3.6 5.8
Asts 4.5 6.2
Stls 1.4 1.9
TOs 3.7 2.6
TS% 59 60
P/pos 1.20 1.16
A/TO 1.22 2.40

(For one more comparison: Hornacek, perhaps an inch shorter than Wolters, was his team’s 2nd leading scorer playing in a strong conference at the same age, his junior year; Hornacek per 40 averaged 14.7 pts, 52.1 FG%, 3.3 FTA, 4.2 reb, 5.7 asts, 2.2 stls, 2.4 TO, 2.41 A/TO; Jeff’s FG% dropped to 47.8 his senior year, however.)

Takeaways?

I know stats are only a part of the picture, but I worry about Larkin’s inability to operate close to the rim (despite superior athletic testing) and play-make at Lawson’s level, but wonder if his better jumpshooting makes up for it.

If Jimmer can stick around in the league (and I think he probably will, if just barely), I think Wolters has a good shot to do as well or better. Wolters’ game looks statistically somewhat more similar to Hornacek’s than to Fredette’s. (Actually it’s Erick Green whose statistical profile this year seems closest to Jimmer’s.)

Jimmer and Hornacek were both shooting guards in college, Jimmer tried to become a point guard in the NBA with his height. Nate Wolters was and is the main ball handler and a far better passer than Jimmer and I know he has more point guard skills then both Jimmer and Hornacek. Biggest difference between Wolters and the other two is he actually is a point guard and can be the main facilitator and starting point guard in the NBA.

I know you will say how dare you, but to prove a point, Nate Wolters stats compare pretty close to John Stockton's as well, the best point guard of all time.

Stockton vs Wolters (senior year; age 21)
PPG: 20.7 22.6
FG%: 57.7 48.0
FT%: 69.2 82.4
RPG: 2.4 5.5
SPG: 3.9 1.9
APG: 7.2 5.8
TO: 3.3 2.4

Wolters is a better shooter and rebounder than Stockton, John shot a higher % because he always shot closer. Rebounds balance out the steals. But John wasn't nearly need to be relied upon his scoring as Nate, so his assists per is a little higher.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Wait, we're going to get McCollum AND Schroeder somehow?

No. We're likely pursuing all of those angles to get either McCollum or Schroeder.

 

[idiot]

I know you will say how dare you, but to prove a point, Nate Wolters stats compare pretty close to John Stockton's as well, the best point guard of all time.

Stockton vs Wolters (senior year; age 21)
PPG: 20.7 22.6
FG%: 57.7 48.0
FT%: 69.2 82.4
RPG: 2.4 5.5
SPG: 3.9 1.9
APG: 7.2 5.8
TO: 3.3 2.4

Wolters is a better shooter and rebounder than Stockton, John shot a higher % because he always shot closer. Rebounds balance out the steals. But John wasn't nearly need to be relied upon his scoring as Nate, so his assists per is a little higher.

I think Hornacek was actually the PG in college (though I could be wrong).

Yes, there are some favorable comparisons with Wolters and Stockton, though the FG%, steals, and assists were pretty significantly in favor of Stockton. (And in fact, I'd have to study this more, but I'm thinking college FG% may be a pretty important barometer of NBA success.)

But my intitial point was to compare players who seemed to have similar physical profiles and athletic reputations. Stat comparisons become more iffy when you're talking about two rather different types of athletes. And make no mistake, Stockton was a far, far better athlete than Wolters.

And I really don't think Wolters has proven to be that great of a shooter yet. He might get there, but he's had his ups and downs throughout his college career. I can't call him a better shooter than Stockton.

 

[d@!!0n0rcutt]

I think Hornacek was actually the PG in college (though I could be wrong).

Yes, there are some favorable comparisons with Wolters and Stockton, though the FG%, steals, and assists were pretty significantly in favor of Stockton. (And in fact, I'd have to study this more, but I'm thinking college FG% may be a pretty important barometer of NBA success.)

But my intitial point was to compare players who seemed to have similar physical profiles and athletic reputations. Stat comparisons become more iffy when you're talking about two rather different types of athletes. And make no mistake, Stockton was a far, far better athlete than Wolters.

That's very true about Stockton, he was very athletic and quick. What I was trying to make a point is Nate Wolters physical attributes are almost the same as Hornacek but he isn't that far off from being a really good point guard which I think he doesn't get enough credit for because of the school he went to he didn't get a lot of attention these other point guards get and everyone's love affair with Schröder.

 

[Sexual Favors]

I think Hornacek was actually the PG in college (though I could be wrong).

Yes, there are some favorable comparisons with Wolters and Stockton, though the FG%, steals, and assists were pretty significantly in favor of Stockton. (And in fact, I'd have to study this more, but I'm thinking college FG% may be a pretty important barometer of NBA success.)

But my intitial point was to compare players who seemed to have similar physical profiles and athletic reputations. Stat comparisons become more iffy when you're talking about two rather different types of athletes. And make no mistake, Stockton was a far, far better athlete than Wolters.

And I really don't think Wolters has proven to be that great of a shooter yet. He might get there, but he's had his ups and downs throughout his college career. I can't call him a better shooter than Stockton.

Really? Who else in this draft has gone for 53 pts in one game? I don't care if it was IPFW, 53 pts is still 53 pts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzSIbmSZ8Rg

Also, Wolters played with a bunch of scrubs, so I think 5.8 assists is a respectable number, all things considered. His weakness is defense, but he's got size, which should make it achievable. I have no question that Wolters will get his shot off in the NBA: he's creative, packing some nice hesitations and elite ball handling skills (tons of examples from college, or you could check how he tripped up Kabongo on the draft combine highlight video).

I really like the kids work ethic. Beyond practice, the kid is always working on his shot in his spare time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpP35929AqE

I am super high on taking him at 21, even if Larkin is still available, but if we don't, I could live with Larkin there.

 

[cowhide]

I say Burks because

1-it was rumored that Minny wanted him at the trade deadline.

2- Burks doesn't have a position on this team (3rd string sg, 3rd string pg?)

3- McCollum somewhat duplicates the role of Foye/Burks.

Did you forget that the Jazz have no one at PG right now so he could be the backup PG and the backup SG? I don't see how he could be 3rd string again this year unless the Jazz bring back inferior vets to play ahead of him.

 

[mellow]

Did you forget that the Jazz have no one at PG right now so he could be the backup PG and the backup SG? I don't see how he could be 3rd string again this year unless the Jazz bring back inferior vets to play ahead of him.

Yea I kind of made a leap there without explaining. I figure the jazz will draft a pg and sign a FA pg to 'train' him. Like Keith McCloud trained Deron. Burks might start the season as #2, but he end it at #3 pg.

And I'm supposing that the Jazz are going to bring back Foye to play sg (not a sure thing but I suspect it is highly probable) and Hayward spends about half his time as sg so that leaves Burks 3rd string.

 

[margodydek]

There's been some talk of swapping picks with Minny. How about Burks & 14 for Ridnour & 9? Would love to pull off something that has us giving up #21 and keeping #14, but I'm sure that's asking too much.

 

[Harambe]

There's been some talk of swapping picks with Minny. How about Burks & 14 for Ridnour & 9? Would love to pull off something that has us giving up #21 and keeping #14, but I'm sure that's asking too much.

I like Ridnour, but I'm not sure this is ok.

 

[margodydek]

I like Ridnour, but I'm not sure this is ok.

Only reason you'd make this move is if you know Burks isn't a part of your future, and you love whoever you can get at #9. I agree, and probably wouldn't pull the trigger, but I don't think I'd immediately hang up on Flip if he called with this offer.

 

[Julie Greengiant]

pretty sure burks will end up being better than a lot of the guys in this draft

 

[Julie Greengiant]

Yea I kind of made a leap there without explaining. I figure the jazz will draft a pg and sign a FA pg to 'train' him. Like Keith McCloud trained Deron. Burks might start the season as #2, but he end it at #3 pg.

And I'm supposing that the Jazz are going to bring back Foye to play sg (not a sure thing but I suspect it is highly probable) and Hayward spends about half his time as sg so that leaves Burks 3rd string.

I'm betting we see a lot of the Burks/Foye/Hayward lineup next year