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Zimmerman/Martin Jury

JimLes said:
Wouldn't it be easier to stop electing judges and making them political figures? Or having multiple judges look at a case? Aren't all those preferable to having amateurs look at the case?
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I think you're making a lot of good points and I've honestly never even really questioned the validity of the jury system.

But there's something about having to inform the regular folks what's going on and what the criteria is for guilt. Otherwise it becomes this mysterious world that none of us have access to and yet remain mortally subject to.
 
Gameface said:
I think you're making a lot of good points and I've honestly never even really questioned the validity of the jury system.

But there's something about having to inform the regular folks what's going on and what the criteria is for guilt. Otherwise it becomes this mysterious world that none of us have access to and yet remain mortally subject to.
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A lot of things work that way, though. I'm not familiar with the minutiae of tax law, either. I don't need to bed. That's why smart money is on hiring an accountant, especially if you're doing anything even slightly complicated(estates, small business, investment, etc.) or problematic. It'd be nice if more people knew the details of the tax code so politicians couldn't just make outlandish claims during campaigns, but the system works whether you and I are informed or not.

Same goes for the law in general. You can defend yourself in court, and some people do, but if it's anything serious, you best get a lawyer. The system also works whether you know anything about it or not. Again, it'd be great if people knew more about it, but it's not going to happen.

And I understand that originally, trial by jury had tremendous value. The promise of trial by jury in English common law meant that you could not only have some hope of getting a fair trial, but that you could conceivably win lawsuits where the plaintiff is someone much more powerful or wealthy than you. I just don't think it means a whole lot today. It just complicates things, such as in this Zimmerman case, because high-profile cases need to have such complicated juror selection. And it still doesn't produce a "better" trial than by judge. That's my issue with it. It's not really a bad system, it just offers little meaningful improvement over trial by judge.
 
JimLes said:
Wouldn't it be easier to stop electing judges and making them political figures? Or having multiple judges look at a case? Aren't all those preferable to having amateurs look at the case?
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Dude, you're the guy who would gladly let someone come into your house and steal your stuff, mount your wife, and destroy your interiors simply because you're a pacifist pushover. Your opinions in this matter -- hell, any matter -- are so invalid that even Christopher Reeves thinks you're retarded.
 
E.J. Wells said:
Dude, you're the guy who would gladly let someone come into your house and steal your stuff, mount your wife, and destroy your interiors simply because you're a pacifist pushover. Your opinions in this matter -- hell, any matter -- are so invalid that even Christopher Reeves thinks you're retarded.
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Ah yes. Real men tote guns, shoot people, and protect their property(wife included).
 
I would shoot the **** out of someone if they broke into my house.

Sadly, i do weird stuff in my sleep. cant trust myself with a gun.



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UGLI baby said:
I would shoot the **** out of someone if they broke into my house.

Sadly, i do weird stuff in my sleep. cant trust myself with a gun.
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Can you be convicted of anything if you were sleepwalking?

Once, when I was at Uni, after a party, a sorority girl sleepwalked naked into the room I was crashing in. I didn't know she was sleepwalking. Woke up when I put my hand on her butt. She was freaking pissed.
 
JimLes said:
Can you be convicted of anything if you were sleepwalking?

Once, when I was at Uni, after a party, a sorority girl sleepwalked naked into the room I was crashing in. I didn't know she was sleepwalking. Woke up when I put my hand on her butt. She was freaking pissed.
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Hahahhhhahahahah



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I really want him found guilty.

The problem is while the OJ trial was divided racially this trial divides us politically.

I just wish that we could look at the facts. A young man was minding his own business when an over zealous wacho stalked him and picked a fight with him despite what the operator told him. Bad Zimmermann done what any rational person would have done then Trayvon would still be alive today.

What the right seems to be advocating for is the right to do EVERYTHING but throw the first punch. Stalk, irritate, intimidate. Once the other person has had enough you have the right to "stand your ground" and blow someone away. Amazing. What a horrible standard this is setting.

Get rid of this piece of trash. Stop playing political games.

If someone is committing a crime then call the cops. Otherwise, stop treading on my freedom.
 
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The Thriller said:
I really want him found guilty.

The problem is while the OJ trial was divided racially this trial divides us politically.

I just wish that we could look at the facts. A young man was minding his own business when an over zealous wacho stalked him and picked a fight with him despite what the operator told him. Bad Zimmermann done what any rational person would have done then Trayvon would still be alive today.

What the right seems to be advocating for is the right to do EVERYTHING but throw the first punch. Stalk, irritate, intimidate. Once the other person has had enough you have the right to "stand your ground" and blow someone away. Amazing. What a horrible standard this is setting.

Get rid of this piece of trash. Stop playing political games.

If someone is committing a crime then call the cops. Otherwise, stop treading on my freedom.
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Have you been following the trial? The man is not guilty. I'm sorry but I find it pretty crazy this has been brought to trial. I was about 60%/40% in favor of Zimmerman before the trial started but as I've read testimony from the trial I'm 95% sure Zimmerman is not only technically innocent, as I believed before, but morally innocent as well. Zimmerman did the right thing from every last bit of testimony I've read (I haven't read all of it so give it your best shot Thriller, I could change my mind). My opinion has changed dramatically from before the trial started.
 
Gameface said:
Have you been following the trial? The man is not guilty. I'm sorry but I find it pretty crazy this has been brought to trial. I was about 60%/40% in favor of Zimmerman before the trial started but as I've read testimony from the trial I'm 95% sure Zimmerman is not only technically innocent, as I believed before, but morally innocent as well. Zimmerman did the right thing from every last bit of testimony I've read (I haven't read all of it so give it your best shot Thriller, I could change my mind). My opinion has changed dramatically from before the trial started.
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He stalked the kid, pursued him despite being advised not to, and when the kid finally had enough, Zimmermann had to "defend himself" with lethal force.

When had he just left the kid alone both would be alive and free today.

I fear the standard that this trial is setting. Apparently now, I can stalk someone, intimidate them, piss them off to the point that those pursued now feel the flight of fight response, and then I can claim self defense if they choose to fight.

Lets just analyze what would have happened had Martin chose the "flight" option. Zimmermann would have had an excuse to pursue him even more. "Oh man, these a holes always run away and get away with everything!" Instead, Martin chose to fight and the rest is history.

You cannot stalk annoy and otherwise infringe upon someone's rights until they've had enough and then call yourself acting in self defense. Sorry, but that's not the America I know.

And the fact that he lied (one of many lies. Lies about Martin grabbing his gun, yelling for help, the list goes on and on and on.) about not knowing about the "stand your ground" law is interesting too. Just how many people did this piece of trash intimidate and piss off knowing that he could "stand his ground" if something got too heated? Send him to prison. Maybe not for murder but for man slaughter. He needs to pay for the crime which he committed. And people need to stop making this a racial or political issue.
 
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Perhaps Zimmerman's life was in danger--perhaps Martin really was going to hurt or kill him--and if that's self-defense, Zimmerman should walk. But let's not forget that Zimmerman was the one who followed Martin with a loaded gun, picked a fight with a loaded gun (Martin, presumably, did not know Zimmerman had a loaded gun), lost the fight (apparently), and then pulled the trigger. Zimmerman might be technically innocent, I don't know--but he's not morally innocent. Not by any stretch.
 
The Thriller said:
He stalked the kid, pursued him despite being advised not to, and when the kid finally had enough, Zimmermann had to "defend himself" with lethal force.

When had he just left the kid alone both would be alive and free today.

I fear the standard that this trial is setting. Apparently now, I can stalk someone, intimidate them, piss them off to the point that those pursued now feel the flight of fight response, and then I can claim self defense if they choose to fight.

Lets just analyze what would have happened had Martin chose the "flight" option. Zimmermann would have had an excuse to pursue him even more. "Oh man, these a holes always run away and get away with everything!" Instead, Martin chose to fight and the rest is history.

You cannot stalk annoy and otherwise infringe upon someone's rights until they've had enough and then call yourself acting in self defense. Sorry, but that's not the America I know.

And the fact that he lied (one of many lies. Lies about Martin grabbing his gun, yelling for help, the list goes on and on and on.) about not knowing about the "stand your ground" law is interesting too. Just how many people did this piece of trash intimidate and piss off knowing that he could "stand his ground" if something got too heated? Send him to prison. Maybe not for murder but for man slaughter. He needs to pay for the crime which he committed. And people need to stop making this a racial or political issue.
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Have you been watching the trial? I know he's a villain in your eyes but the media portrayal of him and the reality are turning out to be pretty different. Travon laid in waiting then jumped out and punched Zimmerman in the face and told him he was going to kill him.

case closed.
 
fallenchicken said:
Perhaps Zimmerman's life was in danger--perhaps Martin really was going to hurt or kill him--and if that's self-defense, Zimmerman should walk. But let's not forget that Zimmerman was the one who followed Martin with a loaded gun, picked a fight with a loaded gun (Martin, presumably, did not know Zimmerman had a loaded gun), lost the fight (apparently), and then pulled the trigger. Zimmerman might be technically innocent, I don't know--but he's not morally innocent. Not by any stretch.
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You were pretty solid in this opinion before the trial, facts be damned, you're sticking to it.
 
You all have come to the realization that Trayvon was a thug, right. Not an innocent person minding his own business. Trayvon was the racist, said far more racially hateful things than Zimmerman. Trayvon had the chip on his shoulder. Treyvon was acting suspiciously and Zimmerman was right to want to keep an eye on him.

Had Trayvon really won the fight we'd be watching him as the defendant in a murder trial.
 
Sad to say but only Zimmerman knows what really happened.
This sounds stupid but even if he's totally innocent court should find him guilty of something and give him some prison time.
This might help avoid hysteria and maybe save his life.
His life will always be in danger if he walks free.
 
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