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Grantland Article about Utah Trades and Approach to Free Agency

I figure he is just mad that one of the 'anti-tanking' teams has given into the dark side.

I'm no fan of tanking either, but the Jazz are tanking the right way. They are theoretically starting a lineup with nothing but lottery picks. It's not like they signed a bunch of scrubs. Granted buys like Biendrens and Jefferson might be scrubs, but every team has a couple of those (and in the case of Jefferson, a vet who is there because he's a vet).
 
If the Jazz would have traded Sap and or Jeff at the deadline the GS trade is not possible. They got cap space for Sap and Jeff which is huge and often a lot better than getting players.

Wow, way to prove my point. Or are you ****ing with me?
 
So $1M is overpaying for 2 firsts and 2 seconds? Either way, the Jazz would be spending $48.6M on salary costs (90% of cap). Spend it on high-priced players or pay it as a surcharge for being under the floor. Jazz are currently at $49.6M, IINM. Add another PG on a vet minimum deal and the cost could go up to $3M. AS rustbucket and Jazz4ever said, the likelihood of a team paying dearly for our cap space was a huge risk. Lindsey got very good value, while still maintaining flexibility to trade expirings at the deadline or cap space next summer. We'd be bitching at him at the deadline if he made NO moves. And we'd be really irate if Utah were in the mix for a top-5 pick and then he obtains a good player who improves us by 5-7 wins and drops us out of the top-10.
 
So $1M is overpaying for 2 firsts and 2 seconds? Either way, the Jazz would be spending $48.6M on salary costs (90% of cap). Spend it on high-priced players or pay it as a surcharge for being under the floor. Jazz are currently at $49.6M, IINM. Add another PG on a vet minimum deal and the cost could go up to $3M. AS rustbucket and Jazz4ever said, the likelihood of a team paying dearly for our cap space was a huge risk. Lindsey got very good value, while still maintaining flexibility to trade expirings at the deadline or cap space next summer. We'd be bitching at him at the deadline if he made NO moves. And we'd be really irate if Utah were in the mix for a top-5 pick and then he obtains a good player who improves us by 5-7 wins and drops us out of the top-10.

Yeah, not sure why the guys at SLC dunks couldn't understand that we'd still have to spend 90% of the cap anyway...


Peter Novak was even championing the Hawks model of signing up Millsap, DeMarre, etc. Not sure why they would have gutted the team last year, only to bring in mediocre talent again this year.

You can't win in this league without at least a couple of All Stars, not sure why they can't see what Lindsey is trying to achieve here.
 
These guys have expiring deals and it's money we had to spend any way. I don't think lindsey was looking for quality pieces anyway. The way i see it the picks were bonus. If the sixers could have swung it they would have done it for 1 pick maybe 0.
 
Lowe Responds to criticism of his analysis of Jazz Trades:

Dear Jazz fans: I get what Utah was doing here. They wanted to find a way to meet the league's salary floor, now set at a record-high 90 percent of the cap level — about $52.5 million — without signing anyone who would be on the books after this season. They don't care about making the playoffs this coming season, and so they didn't see much appeal in signing, say, Jeff Teague and Paul Millsap. I get it. But there is an opportunity cost to every transaction, and the Jazz paid a giant sum — most of their cap space — for first-round picks that are likely to be very bad. There were other alternatives, and some alternatives that haven't emerged yet. That's the value of keeping cap space open during the season, and especially at the trade deadline. Teams only have to hit the floor by June 30 after each season, and in recent history, only the cheapo Maloofs have had any issues in that regard. Every team last season, when the floor was lower, spent over the new 90 percent floor anyway, and no one has ever had any trouble finding dead money when they need it — and wringing a nice asset for their space. Utah didn't make a bad deal at all, especially not considering their priorities. But they paid a giant price for bad picks, and they closed themselves off to other things — even if Brandon Rush and one of the toxic Andris Biedrins–Richard Jefferson duo become movable for second-round picks during the season.

https://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9462545/the-remaking-new-orleans-pelicans
 
A bird in the hand is worth two...

That is my thought on it as well. I have my bird and I am set to make a splash. Could somethign better have come along? Yeah. But it might not have either.
 
A bird in the hand is worth two...

That is my thought on it as well. I have my bird and I am set to make a splash. Could somethign better have come along? Yeah. But it might not have either.

Agreed.

Plus there are several teams with cap space this year competing too... Plus we'd still need to go out and sign FAs to fill our roster regardless.

Lowe is backpedaling.. nice try.
 
I'm not holding my breath for the 2014 FA class. Saving cap space for that is way overrated. We aren't landing Pierce, Dirk, LBJ, Wade, Anthony, or any other difference maker.
 
Not surprised that someone of Zach Lowe's caliber would agree with what I said 100%.
He's double counting, it's stupid.

But they paid a giant price for bad picks, and they closed themselves off to other things
The accounting cost for those picks at this point is roughly $0. They didn't pay a giant price AND close themselves off to other things. They only closed themselves off to other things. The value of those other things is unknown at this point, and given the current CBA and the quality of the 2014 draft, might be less than in recent years. Was the Jazz FO more risk averse than they should have been? Maybe, but the Jazz now have 4(?) additional picks, rolled over cap space next season, and have handed the team over to the young players to either step up or tank hard.
 
I'm not holding my breath for the 2014 FA class. Saving cap space for that is way overrated. We aren't landing Pierce, Dirk, LBJ, Wade, Anthony, or any other difference maker.
They can use the space to acquire players/picks in trades.
 
I'm not holding my breath for the 2014 FA class. Saving cap space for that is way overrated. We aren't landing Pierce, Dirk, LBJ, Wade, Anthony, or any other difference maker.

True but they will be able to land quality bench guys and other parts as needed. Utah can land free agents but it'll just cost them. They need the freedom to be able to spend some money. As for the difference maker I think he will already be on the team between the C6 (lets include Gobert) and teh 2014 pick.
 
He's double counting, it's stupid.

The accounting cost for those picks at this point is roughly $0. They didn't pay a giant price AND close themselves off to other things. They only closed themselves off to other things.

The actual payroll isn't the concern when we say price, it's the valuable cap space that was used up. He knows full well this transaction didn't cost the Jazz a dime.

They can use the space to acquire players/picks in trades.

I get that, and like the salary situation, but I'm not holding my breath over the potential to sign a handful of MLE-type players.

The 2014-2015 season should be very exciting with a ton of moves made by the FO. I'm very much looking forward to an acquisition like the Jrue Holliday trade.
 
He knows full well this transaction didn't cost the Jazz a dime.
Then why does he keep talking about the price paid AND the loss of other options (if he knows they're the same damn thing)? He's either ignorant or being disingenuous.

I'm also not sure he understands the minimum payroll, as he states that teams have the whole season to get there. The problem with this thinking is that the minimum payroll is not based on the team's cap hit, but on the actual monies paid. That is, if the Jazz were to stay well below the cap equivalent of the minimum payroll until the deadline, and then move up to or above the cap equivalent of the minimum payroll, they'd almost certainly still fall short of the minimum payroll. Is it true that teams below the minimum payroll lose out on LT redistributions, frank?
 
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I'm not holding my breath for the 2014 FA class. Saving cap space for that is way overrated. We aren't landing Pierce, Dirk, LBJ, Wade, Anthony, or any other difference maker.
Agree. But Jazz can facilitate. And Utah CAN get players like Landry, Jack, etc. that teams need to dump to sign the higher profile FA's. Jazz have plenty of cap space now (well, counting the expirings as cap space), but re-signing the Core4 is going to squeeze that space. Add in Burke, Gobert, then a likely top-10 pick and GS' 2014 pick. That's 8 players right there. If they all prove worthy of being in the rotation, there won't be much money left beyond that: Jazz will be backfilling the roster with their 2nd round picks and cheap vets. Jazz will be up against the luxury tax in 5 years once the 2014 pick(s) are off their rookie deals. And if any those guys, including next year's pick turns into an all-star/MAX-type player, then we won't be able to keep all of them. So really, I'm not worried if the Jazz miss out on player X or Y. Those draft picks, even in the mid 20's are much more valuable than many of us - or Lowe - realize right now.
 
Then why does he keep talking about the price paid AND the loss of other options? The language he uses is either disingenuous or ignorant.

I think it was a pretty sloppy article throughout. On one hand he talks about how the Philly tank will land them a good pick, but doesn't give Utah the same consideration while assuming they could have gotten more elsewhere, and discounts completely the benefit of rolling the salary and doing it all over again after being in a better competitive position to take on long term deals.

I think his goal was to drive the point of how overpriced draft picks are these days. They're not by the league, but are way overvalued by fans IMO. Utah got the #27 for diddly ****, but I don't think Lowe mentioned that. Assuming billionaires and multi-millionaires are flippant about valuing picks is plain retarded.

I'm also not sure he understands the minimum payroll, as he states that teams have the whole season to get there. The problem with this thinking is that the minimum payroll is not based on the team's cap hit, but on the actual monies paid. That is, if the Jazz were to stay well below the cap equivalent of the minimum payroll until the deadline, and then move up to or above the cap equivalent of the minimum payroll, they'd almost certainly still fall short of the minimum payroll. Is it true that teams below the minimum payroll lose out on LT redistributions, frank?

First off, there aren't any LT distributions anymore (yet). The new distribution pool is based on revenue pooling and replaces the old LT distributions, which is now used for unspecified league purposes. Getting "penalized" for not getting to the floor makes sense as it replaces the distribution anyway, and I read this as you did. I don't think it's true though since teams are now forced up to the salary floor by paying their roster more.
 
I made the same argument lowe makes the day before lowe's article came out in the tread titled "lost opportunities. " I got ripped just like franlin and lowe are now. The problem with the article and the opinion shared by franklin and myself is that we can't prove were right until other opportunities present themselves, if at all, in the future. We are left with saying at a later date " wish we had the cap space to do that deal." Then everyone will rip us for 20-20 hindsight. At least lowe was able to debunk some of the erroneous claims that we had to spend 90% of the cap at the start of the season. We could have, and in my opinion should have saved the space for the trade deadline.
 
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