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Thinking about the rotation and depth chart

Q

Qman

Well-Known Member
We have 13 players with guaranteed contracts and one with an unguaranteed deal.

IMO our depth chart/rotation will look like this

Burke 36/Lucas III 12/Clark
Hayward 16/Burks 32/Clark
Rush 28/Hayward 20/Jefferson /Marvin
Favors 36/Biedrens 12/Evans /Marvin
Kanter 36/Biedrens 2/Gobert 10


I think we are going to have the following issues:

1. Foul trouble for Kanter and Favors is going to kill our offense because:
-Biedrens is a terrible offensive player but we need him to rebound the ball
-Evans will struggle to rebound
-IMO Gobert will contribute but only in limited minutes
2. Our point guards are tiny- who is going to guard the Deron Williams and Jrue Holiday's of the league?
3. Favors and Hayward are going to be game planned for. I think they will struggle with that.
4. Burke is going to have foul trouble and turnover problems too. Lucas is a stealth tanking option in my opinion. He just isn't talented enough.


I hope that Clark will be able to guard the bigger point guards some. I hope that Burke will figure that out and figure his jumper quickly.

The more I think about it, the more I believe we are going to lose a lot of games.

How do you see the rotation working out? Who should start? What are going to be the teams biggest issues?
 
I'd be very surprised if Kanter, Favors or Burke played 36 minutes. Even Hayward will likely fall short of 36. Burks at 32 seems pretty optimistic as well. Keep in mind, the Jazz had 1 player average 32+ minutes last season, and Sloan, who Corbin learned under, limited players' minutes as much as possible.

Hopefully Evans, Gobert and Marvin (in small lineups) will be good enough to keep Biedrins out of the rotation entirely.
 
Hantlers said:
We're gonna be really, really bad.
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I sure hope so.
Just a couple of thoughts re: Qman's post:
1. Trey will not get 36 mins. He'll be lucky to get 30. Which is fine, because Alec may see some time as the 2nd-unit PG.
2. Jefferson WILL get playing time and so will Evans.
3. Doubtful Favors or Kanter plays 36 mins. They'll get in foul trouble.
 
For a little context, Favors was 6th worst in fouls per minute among players who played 1000+ minutes last season. He was dead last among players who played 1500+ minutes. He was 10th in the NBA in fouls per game, playing 23.2 minutes per game. Getting to 36 minutes is going to be pretty tough.
 
PKM said:
So, GVC.. I respect your opinion... what do you see as our range of draft postion?
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I really don't know, and that's what's so exciting about this season. The last couple years, we sorta knew the team would be ok: Not good enough to make any noise, not bad enough to strike lotto gold. It's hard to know how Favors and Hayward (and Kanter and Burke, perhaps) will respond to stepping into leadership roles. How the other young players will respond to their new roles, and how the talent comes together is also hard to predict. Generally, though, young teams without obvious franchise players struggle.

The teams that could be worse than the Jazz this season: Phoenix, Sacramento, Boston, Philly, Milwaukee, Charlotte, Orlando. With injuries, maybe Minnesota too. Of those 8, the Jazz should be better than Phoenix, Boston, Philly, Milwaukee, and probably Charlotte and Orlando. So...slotted 5-9 in the lottery.
 
Couple thoughts:

- I don't think Biedrins will play PF minutes. At all.

- Favors will play some back-up C, and I think Evans will get some legit minutes as a back-up PF.

- Gobert will probably get rotation minutes at C also. I really don't think Biedrins will be featured that much and he could fall in the rotation behind Gobert by the end of the year.
 
I know this is a strange question, but where have we really gotten that much worse? And haven't we gotten better in some areas?

Are we worse at:

  • PG? In my opinion, Mo wasn't particularly adept at running the offense, unless less you count dropping the ball in to Al free throw line extended "getting us into the offense". Burke may be an upgrade, particularly where the strength of this team lies, in running the pnr. Could be a wash or even an improvement. Here's hoping.
  • SG? Nope. Can't say we're going to miss Foye there. Rush is an upgrade, and more Burks is an upgrade over Foye.
  • SF? Nope. Hayward and Marvin still here. No worse. I wish Jeremy would get some run here. I love that kid.
  • PF / C? There's the question mark, but I'm tellin you, had I had to watch Al for another year, I'd have turned in my fan card. We'll certainly be quicker and run the floor better.
  • Bench. Yep. Worse. How much. Can't say. I don't think a bench with Alec, Gobert, Jeremy, and even RJ will be any worse than other team's benches. Won't be as good as last year's, but I don't see us going down 20 with them in the game against other benches.
  • Defense. Nope. We're WAY better. No Foye, no Al, less Marvin, even Millsap slipped there imo, and now more Jeremy, Favors and Kanter plus Gobert and Rush. We've got a chance to be incredible defensively.
 
The only team in the West that's definitely worse than the Jazz is the Phoenix Suns. I see the Jazz grouped in with Sacramento, New Orleans and possibly Dallas near the bottom of the west. I'd assume we'll be 2nd or 3rd from the bottom in the west. Our bench has been shredded.

In the East, Philly, Orlando, Charlotte, and Boston are likely to be worse than the Jazz.

That would put the Jazz in the 7th or 8th lottery position, like Detroit or Sacramento last year. I don't see the Jazz getting a top-5 pick unless we get lucky in the lottery. Although, the Jazz could possibly get as high as #4 or #5 if they trade a promising young player and both their 1st-round picks. In that case, we'd be trading 3 good players for 1 potentially great player.
 
@JClutch -- It'll be interesting to see. It's possible that Favors and Kanter dominate more than people are expecting. We've got the right guards and wings to spread the floor and get them the ball.
 
JohnnyClutch said:
I know this is a strange question, but where have we really gotten that much worse? And haven't we gotten better in some areas?

Are we worse at:

  • PG? In my opinion, Mo wasn't particularly adept at running the offense, unless less you count dropping the ball in to Al free throw line extended "getting us into the offense". Burke may be an upgrade, particularly where the strength of this team lies, in running the pnr. Could be a wash or even an improvement. Here's hoping.
  • SG? Nope. Can't say we're going to miss Foye there. Rush is an upgrade, and more Burks is an upgrade over Foye.
  • SF? Nope. Marvin's still here. No worse. I wish Jeremy would get some run here. I love that kid.
  • PF / C? There's the question mark, but I'm tellin you, had I had to watch Al for another year, I'd have turned in my fan card. We'll certainly be quicker and run the floor better.
  • Bench. Yep. Worse. How much. Can't say. I don't think a bench with Alec, Gobert, Jeremy, and even RJ will be any worse than other team's benches. Won't be as good as last year's, but I don't see us going down 20 with them in the game against other benches.
  • Defense. Nope. We're WAY better. No Foye, no Al, less Marvin, even Millsap slipped there imo, and now more Jeremy, Favors and Kanter plus Gobert and Rush. We've got a chance to be incredible defensively.
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Last year we actually had a pretty decent bench, due to all of our young guys. This year, almost all of our bench has moved to a starting role...and our bench is putrid. Terrible. Horrific.

You cannot win games in the NBA without a good bench, and right now, it looks like our bench is going to suck. When Favors/Kanter get in foul trouble, we have to rely on Evans, Biedrins and Gobert...that's not good. Burke gets in foul trouble, needs a break, we rely on Lucas III (or Burks), and Lucas III sucks. The only good backup we have right now is Burks/Rush (whichever one doesn't start).
 
Yep, foul trouble will be a huge factor. Offense will suffer for sure at those times, but those big guys you mentioned all play D, even Biedrins, and they won't be facing LeBron.

Lucas isn't the only option at point. Burks did well as a backup last year, imo.

Putrid? Hyperbole has its place, but below average fits better.

Benches don't win games, defense does, and we're going to be TOUGH in that department.
 
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JohnnyClutch said:
Yep, foul trouble will be a huge factor. Offense will suffer for sure at those times, but those big guys you mentioned all play D, even Biedrins, and they won't be facing LeBron.

Lucas isn't the only option at point. Burks did well as a backup last year, imo.

Putrid? Hyperbole has its place, but below average fits better.

Benches don't win games, defense does, and we're going to be TOUGH in that department.
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How are we going to be tough on defense when Favors can barely stay on the court? Burke isn't exactly a good defender, Hayward does a good job, Rush will hopefully do good, but a lot of that depends on how he recovers from his injury. Kanter is a good post defender, but is average on help defense and doesn't move laterally that well.

I think people are overstating how good our young core is. Yes, they have a lot of potential, but it has yet to be realized. They will struggle.

And yes, your bench does win games in the NBA. Every single team that does well in the playoffs has a good bench. Every single one.
 
JohnnyClutch said:
Yep, foul trouble will be a huge factor. Offense will suffer for sure at those times, but those big guys you mentioned all play D, even Biedrins, and they won't be facing LeBron.

Lucas isn't the only option at point. Burks did well as a backup last year, imo.

Putrid? Hyperbole has its place, but below average fits better.

Benches don't win games, defense does, and we're going to be TOUGH in that department.
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Ask Portland how important your bench is. We will probably hold our own with the starters at home and struggle on the road. But either way our bench is a huge problem.
 
So you're saying that you'd rather have Al clogging, er, matadoring up the middle than Favors?

You don't think Favors will figure out the foul rate thing? You don't think Gobert and Jeremy are an upgrade? Just the addition by substraction Al represents punches it way up.

And Hayward is not just a good defender, he's a superior one, and Burke will be no worse than Mo who didn't show much interest in it.

And yes, your bench does win games in the NBA. Every single team that does well in the playoffs has a good bench. Every single one.
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Well then, let's just play our best players off the bench and we're golden.
 
Al obviously had his deficiencies but we are going to miss his scoring BADLY. He was one of the clutchest offensive players last year. Who are we going to go to when we need 2 points with a minute left in a game? Hayward? And watch him get blocked at the hoop/get stripped on his way up? Kanter? Who holds the record for charge calls in a season? Favors? You can't throw alley oops every play.

It's going to be rough. Lots of turnovers, lots of games lost in the last 3 minutes. That's what happens with inexperience. And it's going to be glorious.
 
JohnnyClutch said:
So you're saying that you'd rather have Al clogging, er, matadoring up the middle than Favors?

You don't think Favors will figure out the foul rate thing? You don't think Gobert and Jeremy are an upgrade? Just the addition by substraction Al represents punches it way up.

And Hayward is not just a good defender, he's a superior one, and Burke will be no worse than Mo who didn't show much interest in it.



Well then, let's just play our best players off the bench and we're golden.
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Good job on intentionally missing the point.
 
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