Racism and privilege

[Stoked]

Everything you say here, if we place it in the context of this thread, seems to be in search of a method for ethically determining who someone IS. Then, maybe a ethical concern for WHAT TO DO WITH THAT REPRESENTATION OF THEM. Why not start out with the assumptions that we can NEVER know exactly what a person IS; that in their ineffable-ness, they share more in common with us than we can ever realize; and that their differences are important, so instead of clarifying those differences for the sake of judgment, we drive at understanding what makes them uniquely powerful in the world because of their difference.

I think we can truly know a feew people but in general I agree that we can never understand everything about them. I agree with that comment about what we share. Differences are important. They provide the spice of life. There are some differences/traits that should be considered in making a impression of someone.

But this does not answer my question. If we do not judge them, as a person, based on their morals and actions than what?

 

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A perception that you yourself have created. Willingly. My posts also show that I am willing to rethink a post if shown honest intention. If you do not like the image of you that your actions are creating then perhaps change your actions? I am showing a willingness to rethink my impression of you as needed.

This instance has nothing to do with racism or prejudice as my opinion of you is an individual based on my own experiences with you. Nice attempt though.

Here's the problem. You, and the many others like you, assume that you perceive the "person" in some raw or natural state which isn't perverted by "race." That's not how perception works. Things/bodies are always cloaked in values of some kind. Moreover, the so-called ethical way of perceiving a person (which you seem to espouse here) that says "I assume we are EQUAL, and that any differences I encounter are YOUR OWN" is extremely problematic. It isn't a raw perception; it is a liberal perception.


Bump:

Intriguing.

 

[LogGrad98]

There is a big different between basing judgements and treating people differently on account of race. Case in point, do you believe that Black History Month is a good or bad thing?

I think it's a bad thing.

 

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I think we can truly know a feew people but in general I agree that we can never understand everything about them. I agree with that comment about what we share. Differences are important. They provide the spice of life. There are some differences/traits that should be considered in making a impression of someone.

But this does not answer my question. If we do not judge them, as a person, based on their morals and actions than what?

As my post indicated, I won't clarify until YOU clarify what "judge" means.

 

[Stoked]

Intriguing.

As my post indicated, I won't clarify until YOU clarify what "judge" means.

Only to you. You post on here in a rude, offensive and antagonistic manner then complain when you are treated as such. Shoulder some of the blame for that please.

Ok fair enough. In this sense I am saying judge as in a relationship between two people sense. Such as my perception of you based on the way we have handled ourselves. I had a good opinion of you but recently as I feel you have gotten rude and aggressive I have rethought my opinion of you. I feel that you are rude and insincere. This is a result of the way that you talk to people.

 

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Only to you. You post on here in a rude, offensive and antagonistic manner then complain when you are treated as such. Shoulder some of the blame for that please.

Ok fair enough. In this sense I am saying judge as in a relationship between two people sense. Such as my perception of you based on the way we have handled ourselves. I had a good opinion of you but recently as I feel you have gotten rude and aggressive I have rethought my opinion of you. I feel that you are rude and insincere. This is a result of the way that you talk to people.

so, "judge" is exactly what I expected:

A method for clarifying the differences that are ABSOLUTE between oneself and another. A method for being sure those differences are inscribed in a person (as his essence). A method for identifying dangerous or unbecoming differences.

^ if you dont think this logic owes a ****load to the historical functioning of racism, then you are simply wrong.





There are other ways of judging.

 

[JimLes]

I do not think Black History Month is a bad thing but I think it inadequately addreses the problem.

How would you adequately address it in schools?

 

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Bump

You don't get to the foundations of racism unless you call into question the tenets of liberalism itself. One Brow's very own convictions about INDIVIDUAL REPRESENTATION play their own roles in the furtherance of racist phenomena.

The only way out is via the dismantling of the "individual" as we currently frame it. Every other compromise will circle back to the reproduction of these (or very similar) contemporary conditions.

...and, I'm out.

 

[Stoked]

so, "judge" is exactly what I expected:

A method for clarifying the differences that are ABSOLUTE between oneself and another. A method for being sure those differences are inscribed in a person (as his essence). A method for identifying dangerous or unbecoming differences.

^ if you dont think this logic owes a ****load to the historical functioning of racism, then you are simply wrong.





There are other ways of judging.

Your current posting style is not an absolute as it has already changed once.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Okay.... so a white person, black person, and brown person walk into a bar.......



Too soon?

 

[Stoked]

How would you adequately address it in schools?

How would I? Well I feel that if we are going to give history months than we should do so for all groups and we do not. I feel that those months should be done away with and more importance should be placed on those topics throughout the year.

School is already set up in a community setting. So let us treat it as such.

 

[JimLes]

How would I? Well I feel that if we are going to give history months than we should do so for all groups and we do not. I feel that those months should be done away with and more importance should be placed on those topics throughout the year.

One of the things I like about the government here in Alberta is that it mandates that we teach First Nations and francophone perspectives in our Social Studies classroom. One of the things I don't like is that it offers very little guidance how. A separate chapter, integrated throughout, multiple angles on the same issue?

I'm not sure how to best address it. I'm not black, Asian, or Latino. It's hard to put yourself in those kids' shoes.

 

[Stoked]

One of the things I like about the government here in Alberta is that it mandates that we teach First Nations and francophone perspectives in our Social Studies classroom. One of the things I don't like is that it offers very little guidance how. A separate chapter, integrated throughout, multiple angles on the same issue?

I'm not sure how to best address it. I'm not black, Asian, or Latino. It's hard to put yourself in those kids' shoes.

I think that is a very good thing. I just think that it all needs to be included in the normal social studies cirriculum. Their history IS Canada's history. Just as, in my opinion, the civil rights history is not just black history but American history. Give it is proper place and importance. Not a brief overview every February.

 

[franklin]

I absolutely disagree. focusing on race is the problem. only when it is truly irrelevant will it no longer be a problem.

So this thread was basically Stoked posting this and then trying to backtrack for ten pages by accusing everyone over and over that this was not what he said?


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Anyhow, I don't get the big deal with saying that race privilege exists as a whole while also saying it doesn't detract from accomplishments of the individual. Denying the existence is a blanket comforter to deny dealing with the issue legislatively. If you don't recognize it then why would you enact any laws to help get from point a to point b?

 

[Stoked]

You said to stop talking about race. It's hard to do that when race matters to you. Or when you're getting the short end of the stick.

So this thread was basically Stoked posting this and then trying to backtrack for ten pages by accusing everyone over and over that this was not what he said?


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Anyhow, I don't get the big deal with saying that race privilege exists as a whole while also saying it doesn't detract from accomplishments of the individual. Denying the existence is a blanket comforter to deny dealing with the issue legislatively. If you don't recognize it then why would you enact any laws to help get from point a to point b?

It was me correcting them on what I said. But nice try.

 

[franklin]

More of the same antic. "Nice try" on what? Reading what you actually wrote instead of what you intended to write?

Ten pages later and apparently nobody understands what you're conveying, or you wouldn't feel compelled to continue accusing some people of misstating you, outright flaming others, and being uber defensive with everyone who discusses the subject outside the boundaries you're trying to force onto them.

Your "but nice try" condescending attitude proves my point. Or you're trolling again, which was my first impression.

 

[JimLes]

I think that is a very good thing. I just think that it all needs to be included in the normal social studies cirriculum. Their history IS Canada's history. Just as, in my opinion, the civil rights history is not just black history but American history. Give it is proper place and importance. Not a brief overview every February.

Whether the overview is brief is really up to the teacher. I personally spend 10-15 days on historical injustices this country has committed against various groups.

And it is NOT Canada's history. It's the history of a specific group that I do not belong to. Claiming it as my history would be the same as claiming Aboriginal culture as my culture. I'd look pretty offensive putting on a head dress and dancing.

What you propose is an attempt at co-opting someone else's history in order to whitewash yours. I'm not proposing you only talk about black history in February, I'm saying that if you try to integrate it into some sort of "common history," you're doing it a disservice.

How could you look a black kid in the eye and tell him that the history of the founding of the USA is his history too when so many Founding Fathers owned slaves? How can you justify the fact that Abraham Lincoln is the only man on a bill in common circulation who did not own fellow human beings? That among the other 6, five certainly did, and there are reasons to believe Hamilton did, as well? How is that his history? Be honest, and tell him it's not. It's just the history of the white majority. Which is fine, but don't pretend that it's something else.

Same thing goes the other way around.

 

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Stroked moderated the **** outta this thread.

 

[LogGrad98]

Okay.... so a white person, black person, and brown person walk into a bar.......



Too soon?

Go on. I am intrigued.

Which one is privileged again?

 

[Stoked]

I never said we shouldn't talk about race. What do you think I've been doing for the past 10 pages?

No trolling in this thread by me. Just so many times u can say I didn't say something I didn't say. Tell you what. Go quote me where I said we should talk about race. I'm talking about not focusing on the race of a person being the goal.