Why can't people who leave the LDS church move on?

[Safetydan]

Excellent post and I completely agree. This matches my experience as well. I left the church and have lots of friends who also left the church. None of us spend any energy or effort telling anybody else that they ought to leave the church and we don't appreciate it when people try to drag us into the church. There are a lot of things I admire about the Mormon church, especially the focus on family, but one thing that I do not admire at all is the holier than thou attitude and the belief that they are right and everyone else is wrong. This, in a nutshell, is why I love to see BYU lose. Cheering against that team, though, is really the extent of my anti-Mormonism. That's why I take issue with bean's assertion that all ex-Mormons are consumed with their anger toward the church. It's simply not true. Not even close.

Ha, I'm a BYU fan. I don't see the BYU football team as a representative of the church though, even if they do themselves. That probably doesn't make sense but whatever.

When it comes to holier than thou attitudes, every religion and, especially, culture seems to have that. The religious faux-superiority from mormons and other denominations doesn't bother me as much as ethnocentrism, although they are close. I could elaborate but I don't like to type for long periods of time. I'll just say that living here in South Korea gives me another perspective on a lot of things. These are things I couldn't see or experience whilst living within a mission bubble.

 

[moevillini]

perhaps you won't consider this to be in the same category, but it sort of reminds me of some of those who have quit smoking who become the biggest anti-smoking zealots or those who had an abortion (or a guy who contributed to a pregnancy and consented that it be terminated) who become the biggest anti-choice zealots. I don't know if it's in part to atone for something they did that they now consider to be a huge sin or what, but they can become extremely outspoken opponents of something that they once participated in.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Was it the religion that influenced your parents to be like that? Or would your parents be overbearing regardless of religion?

I know that a certain doctrine called "free agency" was ignored by your parents. As was the whole concept of "charity." When looking at the family proclamation and other church teachings, raising a family can be interpreted in varying techniques and methods. However, that whole forcing, over-extension, and taking away stuff that wasn't theirs to take away, is sort of the opposite of what the church teaches.

I wonder if your parents would find excuses in other christian denominations, Islamic groups, and eastern religions to rationalize their actions? This is more on your parents than on the church. If you were Muslim then chances are they would have taken away all that stuff to force you on a pilgrimage to Mecca.

And to be honest, I've never understood why parents use forms of bribery or punishment to force their kids on missions. Perhaps it's because of societal pressures? Or because parents can be jerks and way overbearing? But anyone that has actually been on a mission can tell you that the good to best missionaries are the ones that want to be there. Those who suck, are those who are merely there because of their family, friends, or want to get married easier.

IMO, people use the church to rationalize their overbearing and offensive words and deeds. While many blame the church for failed relationships which would have failed anyway regardless of religion. It's impossible to know for sure, but if it hadn't been your mission it probably would have been something else which would have driven a wedge between you folks. Heck, other issues were probably already boiling over when all of this went down anyway.

While everything you say here may be true, I could give you at least a dozen examples from my own circle of friends where they same thing happened. Most are not quite this extreme, but one of them is far more extreme. My personal experience was more along the lines of Safety Dan. My parents were secure in who they are and when I decided not to go on a mission they recognized that was my choice to make. My grandparents did not feel at all the same way, and neither did a number of other extended family members. Some of them have made concerted efforts to bring me back into the church. I've told them I have no interest. Some of them understand. Others apparently think I have difficulty understanding English and think they might get a different answer if they phrase their unsolicited advice/questions in a different way.

Now that I think this through I'm wondering if bean's impression of this topic might have more to do with his desire to bring these people back than with their desire to move away. Maybe bean is actually the one who is turning every conversation to the topic of religion, and maybe he feels this hatred for the church simply because he's uncomfortable hearing these people's honest answers to his efforts. I know that if he pressed the topic with me he probably wouldn't enjoy hearing the real reasons that I left the church and will never return. I won't deny that there are people who are very aggressive in their hatred for the church, but I think it's a massive overstatement to say that everyone who leaves becomes obsessed about it in a negative way.

BTW, I agree with PKM that this has been an excellent discussion. Until recently I hadn't really ventured into the General Discussion forum, but I've been glad I did. Lots of well thought out and thought provoking comments.

 

[Beantown]

Of course they should be judged. It's one thing for a parent to not help an adult child financially based on principle (though I don't understand it, but whatever), but it's another to use it as a bribe for a child to make a spiritual decision.

It's also bizarre for a parent to get someone to follow their religion on a quid pro quo basis.

My parents didn't pay anything for me after high school. I learned to work and pay for my own things. I didn't need them. Why is it so hard for college kids to pay for a phone, car and rent during college? My car was paid for, my cell phone was like 30 bucks a month and my rent was $250.........how lazy are people?

 

[Stoked]

My parents didn't pay anything for me after high school. I learned to work and pay for my own things. I didn't need them. Why is it so hard for college kids to pay for a phone, car and rent during college? My car was paid for, my cell phone was like 30 bucks a month and my rent was $250.........how lazy are people?

Not all situations are exactly the same.

 

[Beantown]

Did you even read his post? The money they withheld was not their money. It was money given to pickled by a wealthy uncle. His parents stole that money because he decided not to be Mormon.

Did you even read his post?....He was referring also to his parents not paying for his car and his phone

Also if this money was setup in his name his parents wouldn't be able to touch it since he was an adult......so that part makes no sense.

Also many many many people leave money for only certain purposes. Like my friend got money from his great grandpa who passed but it was only set aside for him to use to pay for the mission....that was it.

My point in all this is as adult you should not expect money from ANYONE....even your parents. And if you do accept money as an adult you must know with that money comes with strings attached to it. Its their money and you can choose to accept those attachments or not.

 

[Archie Moses]

Awww Beantown,Beantown.... You are the exact reason I thought twice before wanting to share my experiences. My parents were INHIBITING me from STILL attending college. I wasn't dropping out, I was doing everything a responsible young male should be doing at that age. If you have the ability to help your children get through college and they are doing what they should be doing, wouldn't you help them out? Or would you rather potentially turn them into a poverty ridden teenager for not wanting to advertise your beliefs somewhere for two years? I don't understand your reasoning and you seem like the type of person that I will never understand, so I will probably not waste my time past this post with you....hopefully.

My parents never gave me a damn dime to attend college. I worked two jobs, saved money, applied for grants and scholarships and graduated debt free. Why do people feel so entitled to have their parents hold their hands?

With that said, your parents shouldn't have pulled the church card on you. That's pretty lame.

 

[Archie Moses]

Of course they should be judged. It's one thing for a parent to not help an adult child financially based on principle (though I don't understand it, but whatever), but it's another to use it as a bribe for a child to make a spiritual decision.

It's also bizarre for a parent to get someone to follow their religion on a quid pro quo basis.

Spot on. Repped.

 

[Beantown]

Of course they should be judged. It's one thing for a parent to not help an adult child financially based on principle (though I don't understand it, but whatever), but it's another to use it as a bribe for a child to make a spiritual decision.

It's also bizarre for a parent to get someone to follow their religion on a quid pro quo basis.

What if a grand parent leave's money for their grandkid to pay for their missions and ONLY that?

You think that is wrong?

 

[Bronco70]

What if a grand parent leave's money for their grandkid to pay for their missions and ONLY that?

You think that is wrong?

That's not what he said, Bean.

...but it's another to use it as a bribe for a child to make a spiritual decision.

Grandparents setting aside money for a grandchild's mission is not a bribe. If the child decides to serve a mission, the money is there. If not, it isn't. Everything except the mission stays the same. That has nothing to do with paying for school or a car or a phone, or whatever...

As has been pointed out, everyone's circumstances are different. Kudos to you for supporting yourself all the way. But that doesn't mean that every/any other way is wrong.

If a relative sets aside money for education (or anything for that matter), shouldn't that relative be the only one who can attach stipulations? I think so.

 

[sirkickyass]

I don't think you guys get it. This thread is about Beanclown. It's not about other people.

Beanclown is still in the church. Beanclown doesn't understand why other people who left the church might have negative feelings about their experiences. Therefore, those people are now irrationally obsessed with something they had no interest in before. All of them. There is no equivalency or justification.

Beanclown lived his life a specific way. Beanclown's parents had a specific parenting strategy. If you were parented differently and the terms of your parenting changed, too bad. Only the way beanclown was parented is valid. If you expected anything different then you are lazy and have no reasons to have raw feelings about your relationship with your parents changed. It doesn't matter if things changed in an effort to manipulate you. If you have bad feelings about it, then you are lazy. Only Beanclown's life experiences and beliefs are valid.

Science > your opinion. Beanclown's understanding of the secrets of life is well documented. That's why he's the most respected poster on the board.

 

[Nate505]

My parents didn't pay anything for me after high school. I learned to work and pay for my own things. I didn't need them. Why is it so hard for college kids to pay for a phone, car and rent during college? My car was paid for, my cell phone was like 30 bucks a month and my rent was $250.........how lazy are people?

"Helping financially" isn't the same thing as "paying for everything." Hell I had to pay rent at my house after high school, but at the same time my parents co-signed on a loan for a car since I wasn't credit worthy enough to get it when I was 19.

 

[Nate505]

What if a grand parent leave's money for their grandkid to pay for their missions and ONLY that?

You think that is wrong?

No. If the money was specified for just about anything then it should only be used for that.

But unless it was specified that the money be turned over to the parents in case the beneficiary doesn't go on a mission, the parents shouldn't look at it like they won the lottery either.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Ha, I'm a BYU fan. I don't see the BYU football team as a representative of the church though, even if they do themselves. That probably doesn't make sense but whatever.

When it comes to holier than thou attitudes, every religion and, especially, culture seems to have that. The religious faux-superiority from mormons and other denominations doesn't bother me as much as ethnocentrism, although they are close. I could elaborate but I don't like to type for long periods of time. I'll just say that living here in South Korea gives me another perspective on a lot of things. These are things I couldn't see or experience whilst living within a mission bubble.

I've agreed with most everything you've said, and I even agree that all cultures have at least some cultural pride... but few cultures reach the level of "holier than thou." Mormonism, at least for a certain percentage of its members, does. On a positive note, the percentage of holier than thou members seems to be diminishing.

 

[pickledXgrandma]

My parents never gave me a damn dime to attend college. I worked two jobs, saved money, applied for grants and scholarships and graduated debt free. Why do people feel so entitled to have their parents hold their hands?

With that said, your parents shouldn't have pulled the church card on you. That's pretty lame.

Okay let me finalize and go into more detail with everything, as I am coming off as a privileged brat to a couple people here.
I have worked since I was 10, I was a shipper/fulfillment worker in my fathers warehouse and then once I was 15 I got a legitimate job. I have worked my entire life, always through college. I've paid for every damn thing I have ever owned. The car that got taken away was a car that I had paid half for, my parents paid the other half. I would offer to pay for it my parents wouldn't want me to so they could use it has leverage. I paid for that cellphone, they paid the monthly bill which was 30$? I wasn't speaking about this stuff as money. I was more speaking they were the ways that were helping me go through college, I had them taken away literally like a week before the semester started. It's a little tough to try and get all that worked out a week before school and during school while your sleeping in friends basements with no transportation and campus is 30 min away. I was planning everything around having these necessities to help me get through school, but they disappeared. But I am the type of person that gets **** done so I took care of all of it, on my own. No hands were being held here.

It wasn't about expecting money or things, it was about planning around it. If that makes sense?

 

[Stoked]

Okay let me finalize and go into more detail with everything, as I am coming off as a privileged brat to a couple people here.
I have worked since I was 10, I was a shipper/fulfillment worker in my fathers warehouse and then once I was 15 I got a legitimate job. I have worked my entire life, always through college. I've paid for every damn thing I have ever owned. The car that got taken away was a car that I had paid half for, my parents paid the other half. I would offer to pay for it my parents wouldn't want me to so they could use it has leverage. I paid for that cellphone, they paid the monthly bill which was 30$? I wasn't speaking about this stuff as money. I was more speaking they were the ways that were helping me go through college, I had them taken away literally like a week before the semester started. It's a little tough to try and get all that worked out a week before school and during school while your sleeping in friends basements with no transportation and campus is 30 min away. I was planning everything around having these necessities to help me get through school, but they disappeared. But I am the type of person that gets **** done so I took care of all of it, on my own. No hands were being held here.

And you will be a better and stronger man for it. Your parents will see that one day and hopefully they will be sorry they put you thru it.

 

[Archie Moses]

And you will be a better and stronger man for it. Your parents will see that one day and hopefully they will be sorry they put you thru it.

This. You sound like a good kid, pickle.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

This. You sound like a good kid, pickle.

Says the dude that just locked out his ex roommate, packed up his stuff and threw it out the window, and didn't answer the door... reportedly "not" because Honz cheated on him.


. <---------------------- grain of salt right there

 

[Sneakers]

This whole "durpda durpda bootstraps durpda" thing is a derailment and a distraction from the main point of pickledxhomies' story in the first place.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

I think the question has been sufficiently answered here. One person shared his story about how he left the church and its hierarchy and his character was subsequently brought into question. Anger will never subside if there are constant reminders and confirmations of why one may leave a church. This thread is one of them.

Why don't BYU fans move on from '84?

Why don't Mormons move on from '47?

Equally as valid questions as the thread title. Works both ways.