Hayward & Jazz - not close to agreement (Hayward leaving 4/40 on the table)
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Guitaro
Well-Known Member
Hayward is not going to be better than Manu, sorry. Manu is an elite shooter and scorer, first of all. He's also a much better passer and finisher in the half-court. Hayward has better size and thus rebounds better and also blocks shots better as well. Yet, I would say Manu is smarter and more clever with the ball and on defense. Hayward is a smart guy and a good player. I just think it's a bit of a stretch to think he's worth the same contract as Manu got. Also, Manu could've gotten more but took less for the betterment of the team. Right now, Hayward or his agent are presenting him in the opposite light.
The only way I would approve Hayward getting a bigger contract is if they seriously front-load the contract so later on, the team will still have plenty of cap space to sign the free agents we need. I'm thinking after this draft and maybe the next one, we'll know what kind of team we have and what we need in free agency. We can't rush that process with so many young guys or we're back to being mediocre again. The Jazz need to stay firm and not sign anymore veterans for awhile or spend big on players not quite deserving of it.
That means, give Hayward a solid contract but don't overpay. I thought Favors contract was a tad high, too.
First don't knock Viagra. You may need it one day. Second while I like Hayward no way is he better than manu or Deng. In his prime Ray Allen was twice the player as Hayward will ever be. I like Hayward but sometimes fans only see him through rose colored glasses. He's a 10 million a year player. Good at a lot of things but greatness and the max contract that comes with it alludes him.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
The Ray Allen on the Heat isn't in his Prime, and not close to Hayward now. You said the Ray Allen on the Heat, not the Bucks. As far as Rose colored glasses. Maybe, but with you it's the grass is greener on the other side, so there's that.
mellow
Well-Known Member
This is way late, but I think this offseason showed that most of the nba was trending towards paying support players less. I'm not sure how many teams Hayward could be a top 3 player for (besides the jazz), and those teams that don't care about salary cap have a bunch of guys locked up, and next FA season is loaded, and Hayward is not LA material or a sexy signing for Dallas or the likes. Let it ride.
Would you please go back and read my first quote about Ray Allen. I say Hayward is better than him now. Ray is also the 4th or 5th option for the heat and not getting paid 13 million a year now. As for your belief that with me the grass is always greener on the other side, I have no idea what that means. I like Hayward, but don't want to pay him more than 10 million dollars. I don't know why that makes me a pessimist .
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akirac73
Well-Known Member
When I originally heard rumors of 13M/yr for Hayward, I wanted to vomit. I would have lost all faith in Lindsey if he were dumb enough to offer that much money to a role player type. $10/year is absolutely a fair deal for Hayward, if he thinks he deserves superstar money, it was nice knowing you...
Kudos to the front office for not repeating another AK47 mistake. The Jazz are in good hands.
Kudos to the front office for not repeating another AK47 mistake. The Jazz are in good hands.
cctrackstar
Well-Known Member
It's this kind of crap that makes it hard to be an NBA fan. When a player's salary is determined by how much teams who are under the cap have during the players free agency rather than their actual performance on the court, or by how much X other player who plays the same position was paid by a stupid over the cap desperate team, there is something wrong with the system. If Hayward gets any more than 12 per year I will always look at him as the anvil tied to the neck of the franchise. The only way I would be able to look at it differently is if he became the primary option, an all star, and the team wins playoff games. Otherwise, he's AK to me (and that's not good.)
(notes: Favors' contract is not as damaging partly due to his unteachable height and the fact that he is already an elite defender. And if he doesn't preform, he to will be deadweight to me as well.)
(notes: Favors' contract is not as damaging partly due to his unteachable height and the fact that he is already an elite defender. And if he doesn't preform, he to will be deadweight to me as well.)
Favors' known qualities (a big that can play both spots, rebound, protect the rim, is long, athletic, mobile, and young) > Hayward's known qualities (is simply a secondary option, can score off the ball and can fluidly make plays against a scrambling defense, jack-of-all-trades/master-of-none, and can be quite good but has had a love affair with staggering inconsistency)
And it's not like Hayward's destroying the half-hearted vets or the scrubs he's been playing against in the pre-season. Considering that the pre-season for him is essentially a contract year, it's actually a little concerning that he hasn't been playing quite a bit better than he has been.
And it's not like Hayward's destroying the half-hearted vets or the scrubs he's been playing against in the pre-season. Considering that the pre-season for him is essentially a contract year, it's actually a little concerning that he hasn't been playing quite a bit better than he has been.
To the people talking about his .435 FG% last year: FG% is a terrible stat. Hayward had a .564 TS% last year, which was best on the team last year (other than Evans). His FG% went down mainly because he shot many more 3s a game last year than before (which is a good thing considering he's a lights out 3 point shooter). Hayward gets to the line often, he hits FTs at a high rate, and he shoots a very high 3 point percentage and many 3s a game. These are very good things, and he is a very efficient offensive player because of them.
Anyways, the real reason Hayward is worth so much is because there are no good SGs left in the league. There's a big scarcity for good 2 guards right now, which makes Gordon very valuable. Seriously, Hayward might be the 6th best SG in the league right now. Kobe, Harden, Wade, George if he counts, and then....who else?
Also, Hayward is better than Rudy Gay. Rudy Gay sucks though so that's not saying much.
Anyways, the real reason Hayward is worth so much is because there are no good SGs left in the league. There's a big scarcity for good 2 guards right now, which makes Gordon very valuable. Seriously, Hayward might be the 6th best SG in the league right now. Kobe, Harden, Wade, George if he counts, and then....who else?
Also, Hayward is better than Rudy Gay. Rudy Gay sucks though so that's not saying much.
Former Member
Banned
Good. I say we test drive the car before we buy it.
akirac73
Well-Known Member
its a win-win situation for the Jazz. Two possible outcomes:
1. Hayward is pissed and proves on the court that he is more than a role player and puts all-star caliber numbers this season. Jazz will have no problem matching any offers because he will have finally proven himself.
2. Hayward is his usual inconsistent self, fails to lead the team, shows that he is still a role player that is incapable of carrying the team on his shoulders. Jazz will know for sure that he isn't worth a max contract. If another team is dumb enough to overpay him, let him walk.
Brilliant move by the Jazz.