Hayward & Jazz - not close to agreement (Hayward leaving 4/40 on the table)

[addictionary]

Hayward is not worth too much talent-wise or performance-wise right now. But point-forwards are important. If you have one that is not consistent but offers more than average contribution, you kinda try to keep him. After all the FO gave him the horses. Otherwise, if this whole thing Gordon being the leader might just turn out a property show off for the Jazz to trade him for a higher price, I wouldn't be surprised more than a 12 year old finding himself in a strip club.

 

[HighlandHomie]

It's because Hayward doesn't want Corbin around and the Jazz aren't willing to budge. Unfortunately Corbin is going to lose our franchise a lot more than the games and respect he already has. He's really a new kind of awful.

 

[GVC]

Hayward had a .564 TS% last year...he is a very efficient offensive player

Is Tyson Chandler a better offensive player than Kevin Durant?

You have to consider where a player gets his shots (not all shots are created equal). Hayward's true shooting percentage is high because he shot a lot of spot-up 3s last season (created by others) and scored a bunch in transition. He was ineffective in isos and scoring out of pick and rolls. There are plenty of effective spot-up shooters in the NBA. Yes, Hayward gives you a little better transition play, defense and team play, but you really need a couple better offensive and defensive players to have a contender. With those elite talents in place, most of Gordo's value can be replaced at a much lower price (than $12mm...).

Of course, if you think, despite what he's shown in previous seasons and this preseason, that he'll figure out how to be an efficient on-ball scorer, he's worth more than $10mm. I just don't see that happening.

 

[udflyer]

Is Tyson Chandler a better offensive player than Kevin Durant?

You have to consider where a player gets his shots (not all shots are created equal). Hayward's true shooting percentage is high because he shot a lot of spot-up 3s last season (created by others) and scored a bunch in transition. He was ineffective in isos and scoring out of pick and rolls. There are plenty of effective spot-up shooters in the NBA. Yes, Hayward gives you a little better transition play, defense and team play, but you really need a couple better offensive and defensive players to have a contender. With those elite talents in place, most of Gordo's value can be replaced at a much lower price (than $12mm...).

Of course, if you think, despite what he's shown in previous seasons and this preseason, that he'll figure out how to be an efficient on-ball scorer, he's worth more than $10mm. I just don't see that happening.

Jazz should look to trade Hayward then. They will get more for that.

Whether we like the NBA or not and how it works, Hayward will get 12/13 as an RFA. A little high, maybe. But he is a pretty unique player IMO, part of what is making this difficult. He does not fit a common mold.

So pay now or trade him. The reason I say trade him is why would you give him #1 experience just to lose him ?

 

[BYE]

Anyways, the real reason Hayward is worth so much is because there are no good SGs left in the league. There's a big scarcity for good 2 guards right now, which makes Gordon very valuable. Seriously, Hayward might be the 6th best SG in the league right now. Kobe, Harden, Wade, George if he counts, and then....who else?

Also, Hayward is better than Rudy Gay. Rudy Gay sucks though so that's not saying much.

This is an interesting question here. If you expanded the list to other wings that can play both the 2 and the 3, the list gets bigger. But there aren't a ton of wings that are markedly better than Hayward, who aren't fossils. See for yourself in this list.

https://www.hoopsstats.com/

 

[Borat]

We cannot be blowing money on near max contracts on non-star players. We are all looking forward to next year's draft because people expect the current roster to be inferior to pretty much every team in NBA. Yet if guys like Favors and Hayward, who both have 3 years of experience, and are truly near max players already, shouldn't the expectation be a little higher? It's not because these guys are not stars just yet, and we don't know if they ever will be. The beauty of it is that they will be restricted next year, so if they do become stars, we can match any deal. If not - no one will offer them near max.

There is no reason for the Jazz to take a big gamble right now by giving not one, but two non-star players near max. Look at OKC. They gave non-star guys like Perkins and Ibaka big contracts, and did not have enough money to keep a star like Harden. What if Kanter or Burke becomes a real star and we get someone in the draft, who will be a star? Can we pay all these guys near max? So, let's wait and see how a year plays out, let's get through the draft, and then decide if Hayward is worth the max or close to it. For now 4 and 40 is more than fair.

 

[phippsj]

Hayward should just fire his agent. The market sets the salary at 10. So... another team is willing to pay 12 or 13 next year?

Well... take the offer from the Jazz without owing commission to an agent and Hayward is getting paid Max money.

Sports agents are like real estate agents. If you get a great one they are worth the money, but too many are just there to get paid and put their own interest first. They think their value is the ability to understand contracts... not their ability to help develop a strategic direction and protect the long term interest of their clients.

 

[cowhide]

If the Jazz land two good picks suddenly Hayward become very important. He will be that all important glue guy. He will make those around him better. His off ball movement, spot shooting, handling, passing and ability to play D bring it all together. If you have Wiggins, Burke, Kanter, Favors, Gobert and another rookie I see Hayward tying it all together.

You don't pay glue guys $12million a year. Besides if we get Wiggins and say Young, Hayward becomes expendable at that price. Do not get me wrong I like Hayward a lot but he hasn't proven to be worth that kind of money. If it is true the Jazz offered $10 a year he should grab it and be thankful.

 

[cowhide]

We cannot be blowing money on near max contracts on non-star players. We are all looking forward to next year's draft because people expect the current roster to be inferior to pretty much every team in NBA. Yet if guys like Favors and Hayward, who both have 3 years of experience, and are truly near max players already, shouldn't the expectation be a little higher? It's not because these guys are not stars just yet, and we don't know if they ever will be. The beauty of it is that they will be restricted next year, so if they do become stars, we can match any deal. If not - no one will offer them near max.

There is no reason for the Jazz to take a big gamble right now by giving not one, but two non-star players near max. Look at OKC. They gave non-star guys like Perkins and Ibaka big contracts, and did not have enough money to keep a star like Harden. What if Kanter or Burke becomes a real star and we get someone in the draft, who will be a star? Can we pay all these guys near max? So, let's wait and see how a year plays out, let's get through the draft, and then decide if Hayward is worth the max or close to it. For now 4 and 40 is more than fair.

Jazz are not going to be able to keep everyone no matter what but I agree that the Jazz need to be smart with who they pay and what amount they pay. Everyone predicts market value without really knowing what it is. The new CBA is suppose to keep salaries lower due to the shortening of contracts and the luxury tax increases. Yes someone could offer these guys $12-13 million on the open market but I would rather some other team over pay than the Jazz. Just because a player gets a ridiculous offer doesn't mean you should match it. There are going to be some tough decisions regarding our young players but if you start overpaying for good players than you increase the chance that when a stud player comes up for contract extension you don't have the money to pay him.

OKC, if I remember correctly, traded for Perkins and then gave Ibaka a big contract. The Perkins deal killed any chance of the Thunder keeping Harden. Yes the Ibaka deal made it hard to give Harden the Max but it was the Perkins deal that made it impossible.

 

[orangello]

It's because Hayward doesn't want Corbin around and the Jazz aren't willing to budge. Unfortunately Corbin is going to lose our franchise a lot more than the games and respect he already has. He's really a new kind of awful.

I hope that this isn't the truth. I also believe that Corbin is holding thus franchise back in a major way. I hope that the franchise is not protecting Corbin.

Sent from the real OG

 

[[size/HUGE] fixed [/size]]

.... Here goes full rahtard mode....

 

[orangello]

Would Phx give up one and possibly two picks in then upcoming draft for Hayward?

Sent from the real OG

 

[Sneakers]

Remember the quotes from Lindsay following Favors extension? ... "well it was easy because we had a willing partner" (something along those lines)... seems to me that Hayward is not a willing partner. Yes I'd probbly do the same thing in his shoes, but boo to his greedy *** for holding out and potentially screwing our team over either financially or personal wise. And this guy is supposed to be a leader?

 

[Fishsticks]

Obviously the max rumors were started by Hayward's camp. I'm glad the Jazz were never looking to do a max deal. I think it's funny Hayward's camp think he is a max guy.

 

[Ben10]

Jazz should look to trade Hayward then. They will get more for that.

Whether we like the NBA or not and how it works, Hayward will get 12/13 as an RFA. A little high, maybe. But he is a pretty unique player IMO, part of what is making this difficult. He does not fit a common mold.

So pay now or trade him. The reason I say trade him is why would you give him #1 experience just to lose him ?

The last thing they should do is seek a trade unless it Gets us back a star player or multipule 1st rounders for next year. You keep saying that Hayward is going to get 12-13 million in RFA. If I'm the Jazz It is a see it to believe it situation. If he comes back with that offer from another team then we think about paying him that kind of money. Not now.

 

[franklin]

Remember the quotes from Lindsay following Favors extension? ... "well it was easy because we had a willing partner" (something along those lines)... seems to me that Hayward is not a willing partner. Yes I'd probbly do the same thing in his shoes, but boo to his greedy *** for holding out and potentially screwing our team over either financially or personal wise. And this guy is supposed to be a leader?

I like to suck PR **** too.

 

[udflyer]

I like to suck PR **** too.

Hayward...Greedy ?

Just wants what he thinks he is worth....isn't that what all of us would do with our jobs.

Nice espn video on the topic today


https://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9875928/gordon-hayward-utah-jazz-talks-contract-extension


Claims Hayward wants bigger deal than Favors.....

I always like rooting for the underdog versus "the man" so I am rooting for Hayward.

If no deal gets done I think he will be traded and Jazz will miss out on a special talent.

Keep in mind Hayward in on record saying he would love to play his whole career in Utah. Good luck finding Max players that want to come to Utah.

Pay him his 12/13 and call it done.

Otherwise as ESPN video above states, Jazz will be distracted with trade rumors all year

 

[Stifle Tower]

There is no way Hayward is worth 13 million a year. I would up the number to 11 (I think that is a lot of money). If he says no, then trade is but to a team with a 2014 high pick. The Jazz will have an issue after this draft at SG/SF when/if they draft Wiggins/Young/Parker/Harrison/Exum. I like Hayward but he is not a superstar and shouldn't be paid like one.

Agree with upping the offer to 11M. If he doesn't accept, then end discussions on a positive note and let him prove he's worth more during the season. However, I don't see an issue at SG/SF. Jazz have Hayward, an unproven Burks and ?. No other SF/SG is under contract beyond this season. Rush if/when he returns will be a FA and a few teams may bid up his price. Burks? I don't think he's shown enough yet. I'd much rather have GH at SG and bring in a starting SF. If the Jazz miss out on Wiggins or Parker and get a SG I see Alec as the one who is dispensable. In any case, Utah needs a 3-man rotation at the wing positions. There's room for one more no matter what.

 

[Ben10]

^^Completely confused why there would even be a trade at all. If he blows up this year and some teams offers him the Max we just match. If he has an ok year and teams offer him 10-11 we match. If he plays OK and someone offers him the max we let him go. No trade needed unless its to the Jazz advantage

 

[NUMBERICA]

I always like rooting for the underdog versus "the man" so I am rooting for Hayward.

You want to pay an underdog max money?