Everything in its right place

[Chris]

Borrow from Radiohead? Don't mind if I do.

I'm amazed at the level of disbelief that the Jazz are losing like they are or the insistence that Ty be fired now. HOW IS ANY OF THE STATUS QUO SURPRISING? I would imagine that we all knew, going into this season, that the Jazz were going to be bad.

Especially as the off-season went along and we lost our two top scorers -- regardless of their flaws.

Especially when we acquired albatross contracts to get to the requisite level of salary instead of swinging for the fences with those same dollars.

Especially when Trey struggled in the Summer League and went down with a broken thumb in the pre-season.

Especially when they kept Ty around -- and in my opinion, will keep him around the rest of the season.

Perhaps this is obvious to some but apparently it needs to be stated clearly: The Jazz are tanking this season in order to land a top 3 pick in a loaded draft. They have taken on salary to acquire picks and have a great off-season next year. They are giving the young guys a full season to play together, make a lot of mistakes, and gain much needed experience. They are keeping Ty around because nobody loses better than he does.

Any Jazz fan worth his salt is depressed with our favorite team's cringe-worthy lack of performance this year, but I believe this is a necessary part of a plan. Dennis Lindsey is playing chess -- not checkers. Regardless of how bad things currently are or will end up getting this year, imagine how valuable this experience is going to be for this young group of guys.

Imagine how happy we'll all be when and if the Jazz end up with a franchise cornerstone in Jabari Parker who will likely enjoy playing (and staying) in Utah for years to come. Imagine how psyched we'll be when Ty gets let go after performing his role perfectly by default. It'll be like when the CJ Miles experiment finally ended -- all over again.

Imagine how solid that PG position will be with Raul Neto coming to the team after one more year of experience -- just like the guy he'll be backing up. Imagine how much money we'll have to play with next off-season in order to add talent to the team and/or re-sign the core of the team we now have. Imagine how much first round talent we can add for years to come because of the picks we've squirreled away. Imagine getting a really good coach next year and building the team of the future night after night next season.

Obviously, I don't know that all of these things will happen. But you can bet that at least some of them will. And you can also bet that it will have been by design.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I only scanned it, tbh.. but I think 95% of those here are okay with losing.. I mean GREAT with losing...

But still critical of individual performances/effort. We can't mail it in all season and expect to be better in the future. We have to TRY to win to get better, as a team, and individually.
I think you're seeing some here that don't want the season 'wasted' for merely another draft pick/piece. We must also gel, learn, and just get better.

As far as Ty.. I think he simply doesn't have, nor warrant, our optimism.

 

[Stoked]

I only scanned it, tbh.. but I think 95% of those here are okay with losing.. I mean GREAT with losing...

But still critical of individual performances/effort. We can't mail it in all season and expect to be better in the future. We have to TRY to win to get better, as a team, and individually.
I think you're seeing some here that don't want the season 'wasted' for merely another draft pick/piece. We must also gel, learn, and just get better.

As far as Ty.. I think he simply doesn't have, nor warrant, our optimism.

That is the problem I have. I am starting to see signs of lack luster effort and selfishness. That to me is not OK.

 

[green]

As far as Ty.. I think he simply doesn't have, nor warrant, our optimism.

I agree. Here is the problem. If you are the Jazz, why make a change? Ty is the most guaranteed way of getting the best chance at #1.

And for you that are worried about morale...my biggest problem is we don't have a leader. Kanter, Favors and Hayward, none have taken control of this team. None are out there getting player's faces, making huge stops, giving 100% ALL THE TIME. That, to me, is worrisome. Especially if Kanter wants max money and Hayward wants 12+ per. What I do, is be honest with the players. And tell them, we aren't getting rid of Ty. This is your team, show it.

Whatever faults you think Ty has, go out and YOU make the team better. It's nice that Hayward can average 20 pts when his team is down 20. Lots of players can do that. Al could do that only being down 10. What I want is a team of champions. Champions don't give up. These guys want big money, money that if given, could take this team to a title...or mediocrity. I need to make sure they are the former.

So, no, I'm not worried about morale or players quitting. One, at the end of the day, it is on them. Two, other than Hayward, they don't have a choice about next year. We will have a new coach then. So, keep Ty and lose away. Maybe Wiggins/Parker can be the leader this team so sorely needs.

 

[MoTappin]

I'm OK with losing. Like Lindsay said, they aren't going to skip any steps and I think this is what he meant. I think in the past when the Jazz have "rebooted" rather than rebuilt, they've done themselves a disservice. We could have gone through all this already but never really have.

That said, I hate Ty. Maybe he's our best "chance" at losing as many games as possible and getting the #1 pick. But when coaching is bad enough in game situations to hurt player development or keep them from learning how to execute effective offense and defense, that's when I start getting concerned. If we are taking the necessary steps for a quality re-build, don't we need these young core players to get the best coaching & development for in-game situations they can get, as soon as possible? I guess the question I would love to have the answer to, is whether we have gotten to the point where Ty's coaching is counterproductive to player development, and if we have, who the heck else is there? Of course there is also the money issue of Ty's contract.

New coach or not, this is still a lottery/high pick team. My concern is with player development, but I don't know what can reasonably be done about it right now.

 

[mfree]

Experience is a great teacher. The players know the tank is on. That has to be very unmotivating.

I predict improvement during the second half. They will be better based on the experience, but still bad enough.... thanks to an awful first half, to get the high pick.

The plan is advancing just as.... uh, planned.

 

[franklin]

Borrow from Radiohead? Don't mind if I do.

I'm amazed at the level of disbelief that the Jazz are losing like they are or the insistence that Ty be fired now. HOW IS ANY OF THE STATUS QUO SURPRISING? I would imagine that we all knew, going into this season, that the Jazz were going to be bad.

Especially as the off-season went along and we lost our two top scorers -- regardless of their flaws.

Especially when we acquired albatross contracts to get to the requisite level of salary instead of swinging for the fences with those same dollars.

Especially when Trey struggled in the Summer League and went down with a broken thumb in the pre-season.

Especially when they kept Ty around -- and in my opinion, will keep him around the rest of the season.

Perhaps this is obvious to some but apparently it needs to be stated clearly: The Jazz are tanking this season in order to land a top 3 pick in a loaded draft. They have taken on salary to acquire picks and have a great off-season next year. They are giving the young guys a full season to play together, make a lot of mistakes, and gain much needed experience. They are keeping Ty around because nobody loses better than he does.

Any Jazz fan worth his salt is depressed with our favorite team's cringe-worthy lack of performance this year, but I believe this is a necessary part of a plan. Dennis Lindsey is playing chess -- not checkers. Regardless of how bad things currently are or will end up getting this year, imagine how valuable this experience is going to be for this young group of guys.

Imagine how happy we'll all be when and if the Jazz end up with a franchise cornerstone in Jabari Parker who will likely enjoy playing (and staying) in Utah for years to come. Imagine how psyched we'll be when Ty gets let go after performing his role perfectly by default. It'll be like when the CJ Miles experiment finally ended -- all over again.

Imagine how solid that PG position will be with Raul Neto coming to the team after one more year of experience -- just like the guy he'll be backing up. Imagine how much money we'll have to play with next off-season in order to add talent to the team and/or re-sign the core of the team we now have. Imagine how much first round talent we can add for years to come because of the picks we've squirreled away. Imagine getting a really good coach next year and building the team of the future night after night next season.

Obviously, I don't know that all of these things will happen. But you can bet that at least some of them will. And you can also bet that it will have been by design.

Status Quo?

BF Skinner would explain this as a bunch of superstitious pigeon brains that have been conditioned to respond to losing with Fire Ty drum pounding. What makes this particularly amusing is losing is the food reward they truly desire but cannot separate the pre-conditioned link from past years between "Fire Ty" and a winning reward.

 

[franklin]

I agree. Here is the problem. If you are the Jazz, why make a change? Ty is the most guaranteed way of getting the best chance at #1.

Then why has he been crafting spectacular game plans that have worked surprisingly well against far superior teams? Pummeling Houston and SAS in the first half was no coincidence: Ty got out ahead of superior competition but the skills gap eventually overcame his coaching.

 

[The Midnight]

Then why has he been crafting spectacular game plans that have worked surprisingly well against far superior teams? Pummeling Houston and SAS in the first half was no coincidence: Ty got out ahead of superior competition but the skills gap eventually overcame his coaching.

So is it your opinion that we're not tanking then?

 

[Tom Pitt]

Borrow from Radiohead? Don't mind if I do.

I'm amazed at the level of disbelief that the Jazz are losing like they are or the insistence that Ty be fired now. HOW IS ANY OF THE STATUS QUO SURPRISING? I would imagine that we all knew, going into this season, that the Jazz were going to be bad.

Especially as the off-season went along and we lost our two top scorers -- regardless of their flaws.

Especially when we acquired albatross contracts to get to the requisite level of salary instead of swinging for the fences with those same dollars.

Especially when Trey struggled in the Summer League and went down with a broken thumb in the pre-season.

Especially when they kept Ty around -- and in my opinion, will keep him around the rest of the season.

Perhaps this is obvious to some but apparently it needs to be stated clearly: The Jazz are tanking this season in order to land a top 3 pick in a loaded draft. They have taken on salary to acquire picks and have a great off-season next year. They are giving the young guys a full season to play together, make a lot of mistakes, and gain much needed experience. They are keeping Ty around because nobody loses better than he does.

Any Jazz fan worth his salt is depressed with our favorite team's cringe-worthy lack of performance this year, but I believe this is a necessary part of a plan. Dennis Lindsey is playing chess -- not checkers. Regardless of how bad things currently are or will end up getting this year, imagine how valuable this experience is going to be for this young group of guys.

Imagine how happy we'll all be when and if the Jazz end up with a franchise cornerstone in Jabari Parker who will likely enjoy playing (and staying) in Utah for years to come. Imagine how psyched we'll be when Ty gets let go after performing his role perfectly by default. It'll be like when the CJ Miles experiment finally ended -- all over again.

Imagine how solid that PG position will be with Raul Neto coming to the team after one more year of experience -- just like the guy he'll be backing up. Imagine how much money we'll have to play with next off-season in order to add talent to the team and/or re-sign the core of the team we now have. Imagine how much first round talent we can add for years to come because of the picks we've squirreled away. Imagine getting a really good coach next year and building the team of the future night after night next season.

Obviously, I don't know that all of these things will happen. But you can bet that at least some of them will. And you can also bet that it will have been by design.

It all only works if we get a top 4 pick in the draft and if Wiggins, Parker, Randle, and Exum declare for the draft. Gotta have a star to win a title.

 

[Beantown]

I only scanned it, tbh.. but I think 95% of those here are okay with losing.. I mean GREAT with losing...

But still critical of individual performances/effort. We can't mail it in all season and expect to be better in the future. We have to TRY to win to get better, as a team, and individually.
I think you're seeing some here that don't want the season 'wasted' for merely another draft pick/piece. We must also gel, learn, and just get better.

As far as Ty.. I think he simply doesn't have, nor warrant, our optimism.

This.

They AREN'T who we thought they were......and that's the depressing part. We all thought the young guys were better than they really are.

 

[Gameface]

We all want to have our cake and eat it too.

Losing is ugly. Almost impossible to look good while sucking.

It's also just not human to keep your head up and give 110% while getting your *** handed to you over and over again. Losing is draining and demoralizing. Turns out our players are humans and this **** is getting to them.

 

[spycam1]

We all want to have our cake and eat it too.

Losing is ugly. Almost impossible to look good while sucking.

It's also just not human to keep your head up and give 110% while getting your *** handed to you over and over again. Losing is draining and demoralizing. Turns out our players are humans and this **** is getting to them.

Was about to say the same thing.

If we want the worst record in the league, it's not going to be pretty, people.

 

[Stoked]

This.

They AREN'T who we thought they were......and that's the depressing part. We all thought the young guys were better than they really are.

They are not yet who we thought they were.

 

[Chris]

If we want the worst record in the league, it's not going to be pretty, people.

I actually could have just typed this instead of my entire OP. Well done.

 

[green]

Then why has he been crafting spectacular game plans that have worked surprisingly well against far superior teams? Pummeling Houston and SAS in the first half was no coincidence: Ty got out ahead of superior competition but the skills gap eventually overcame his coaching.

LOL. Good one.

In case you were actually serious, SAS and Hou didn't show up until halftime. Then they proceeded to destroy Utah.