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LDS Church fined for contributions to Prop 8!! HA!

colton said:
This thread, and countless others like it, has gone on for HOW long? How many people have changed their minds because of it? I count a grand total of zero.
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I was unaware that changing people's minds was the primary benefit of such discussions.
 
One Brow said:
I was unaware that changing people's minds was the primary benefit of such discussions.
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You missed my point... which was that if threads like this don't change people's minds, I really doubt that advertising campaigns do. Now, GlassEater did have a valid comment about advertising campaigns helping to get out the vote
 
Apparently I'm awesome. From yesterday's SF Chronicle:

https://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/06/15/MN051DVGNE.DTL

Prop. 8 spending found to have swayed no voters
John Wildermuth, Chronicle Staff Writer

The warring sides in the 2008 battle over same-sex marriage in California may have spent a combined $83 million for nothing, according to an academic study released Tuesday.

The study by Patrick Egan of New York University looked at polling on gay marriage and domestic partner elections in 33 states since 1998 and found that no minds were changed despite millions in spending, hard-hitting advertising such as the much-quoted "like it or not" TV spot with San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom, and emotional pleas from both sides.

By election day, voters who opposed same-sex marriage before the campaign still opposed it, and those who backed it continued to back it.

*snip*

...the survey did make an important point, added Maggie Gallagher, the group's chair.

"Most Americans know what they think about marriage," she said. "This study confirms that, in spite of a now almost 10-year campaign to get them to change their minds."
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billyshelby said:
I like pizza. But if I live to be a thousand years old, I'm never going to like pizza with mushrooms on it. It's not emotional, intellectual, or spiritual. I can't explain the science of it, but I know I don't like it, and I'll never like it. That said, I've seen people eat mushroom pizza and really like it. I have friends who like it. And I fully respect their right to eat, and like, pizza with mushrooms on it. But even now, whenever I see someone eat pizza with mushrooms on it, I can't for the life of me understand how they like it. We're just not the same. Except for the fact we both like pizza.
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Maybe the better analogy would be to say pizza with anchovies. ;)
 
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Sirkickyass said:
My last physical measured me at 5'11." That seemed a little high to me. My drivers license says I'm 5'10." I really don't care, but he's said it enough times now that I'm more confused than anything.
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Is that with or without shoes?
What really matters is your wing span. It's o.k. to be 5'10" if you've got arms like a gorilla.
 
By election day, voters who opposed same-sex marriage before the campaign still opposed it, and those who backed it continued to back it.

Read more: https://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/06/15/MN051DVGNE.DTL#ixzz0r22U7zXq
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doesn't say anything about the voters who are/were undecided, perhaps some of them were swayed one way or the other?

fyi, there are results from a number of recent polls posted here:
https://www.pollingreport.com/civil.htm

here's one example, showing yearly polls from 2006-2010 - not a wide variation, but some changes over time

poll results.jpg
 
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One thing to keep in mind is that when you're having a debate with someone it's safe to assume they have already formed a strong, at least somewhat informed, opinion on the matter. They aren't likely to be swayed by a debate like this or by an ad campaign. But there are a lot of uninformed and undecided people out there. People have a basic desire to fit in. They're likely to go with whatever side gets to them first. An ad camping IS going to have an effect on the way they vote and if they show up to vote.
 
As much as I don't care about this debate, I find it funny that the gay-lesbian community chose to attack the LDS church rather than questioning the voters themselves. My understanding is that the Black community had a lot more to do with passing prop 8 than any organization throwing money at the cause. I guess Mormons are a much easier target than black culture.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/06/AR2008110603880.html

From the Article:

Seven in 10 African Americans who went to the polls voted yes on Proposition 8, the ballot measure overruling a state Supreme Court judgment that legalized same-sex marriage and brought 18,000 gay and lesbian couples to Golden State courthouses in the past six months.

Similar measures passed easily in Florida and Arizona. It was closer in California, but no ethnic group anywhere rejected the sanctioning of same-sex unions as emphatically as the state's black voters, according to exit polls. Fifty-three percent of Latinos also backed Proposition 8, overcoming the bare majority of white Californians who voted to let the court ruling stand.

"I think it's mainly because of the way we were brought up in the church; we don't agree with it," said Jasmine Jones, 25, who is black. "I'm not really the type that I wanted to stop people's rights. But I still have my beliefs, and if I can vote my beliefs that's what I'm going to do.
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
As much as I don't care about this debate, I find it funny that the gay-lesbian community chose to attack the LDS church rather than questioning the voters themselves. My understanding is that the Black community had a lot more to do with passing prop 8 than any organization throwing money at the cause. I guess Mormons are a much easier target than black culture.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/06/AR2008110603880.html

From the Article:

Seven in 10 African Americans who went to the polls voted yes on Proposition 8, the ballot measure overruling a state Supreme Court judgment that legalized same-sex marriage and brought 18,000 gay and lesbian couples to Golden State courthouses in the past six months.

Similar measures passed easily in Florida and Arizona. It was closer in California, but no ethnic group anywhere rejected the sanctioning of same-sex unions as emphatically as the state's black voters, according to exit polls. Fifty-three percent of Latinos also backed Proposition 8, overcoming the bare majority of white Californians who voted to let the court ruling stand.

"I think it's mainly because of the way we were brought up in the church; we don't agree with it," said Jasmine Jones, 25, who is black. "I'm not really the type that I wanted to stop people's rights. But I still have my beliefs, and if I can vote my beliefs that's what I'm going to do.
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You know, I remember when the whole John Amaechi thing was happening, I heard Screamin' A. Smith go off on his radio show about people comparing the oppression of blacks and gays. His main argument seemed to be that a black person can't hide his skin color, but a gay person can hide his homosexuality... I believe Smith's words were something like, "If you're gay, as long as you're not all up in people's faces about it, no one really bothers you!"

One would think that one group of oppressed people would be more inclined toward sympathy for another such group, and yet instead they argue about who has had it worse. Aren't people wonderful?
 
AtheistPreacher said:
You know, I remember when the whole John Amaechi thing was happening, I heard Screamin' A. Smith go off on his radio show about people comparing the oppression of blacks and gays. His main argument seemed to be that a black person can't hide his skin color, but a gay person can hide his homosexuality... I believe Smith's words were something like, "If you're gay, as long as you're not all up in people's faces about it, no one really bothers you!"

One would think that one group of oppressed people would be more inclined toward sympathy for another such group, and yet instead they argue about who has had it worse. Aren't people wonderful?
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That's a good point. BTW, Smith is an idiot.
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
That's a good point. BTW, Smith is an idiot.
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Oh, believe me, I know. The only reason I was listening to his podcast at all was because I was following the story pretty closely and I wanted to see what everyone was saying. But thankfully his exposure seems to have gone down a bit.

I'm still bitter that ESPN basically replaced David Aldridge with Smith. Aldridge was the best NBA reporter they ever had, and to give an open slot to such a tool like Smith just added insult to injury.

*sigh* Oh well.
 
AtheistPreacher said:
Oh, believe me, I know. The only reason I was listening to his podcast at all was because I was following the story pretty closely and I wanted to see what everyone was saying. But thankfully his exposure seems to have gone down a bit.

I'm still bitter that ESPN basically replaced David Aldridge with Smith. Aldridge was the best NBA reporter they ever had, and to give an open slot to such a tool like Smith just added insult to injury.

*sigh* Oh well.
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ESPN found out the hard way, I guess. Smith isn't a bad reporter and interviewer, though.
 
I couldn't help but get a laugh when reading this review and then remembering this thread...

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/700041139/8-The-Mormon-Proposition-is-one-sided-and-inept.html

And boy, sounds like this movie is making a killing on yahoo movies. Even the member views indicate that this movie sucks.

https://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1810129074/user

I'm not seeing the boosted ticket sells inspired by the fines levied on the LDS church that the author of this thread seemed to indicate.
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
As much as I don't care about this debate, I find it funny that the gay-lesbian community chose to attack the LDS church rather than questioning the voters themselves. My understanding is that the Black community had a lot more to do with passing prop 8 than any organization throwing money at the cause. I guess Mormons are a much easier target than black culture.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/06/AR2008110603880.html

From the Article:

Seven in 10 African Americans who went to the polls voted yes on Proposition 8, the ballot measure overruling a state Supreme Court judgment that legalized same-sex marriage and brought 18,000 gay and lesbian couples to Golden State courthouses in the past six months.

Similar measures passed easily in Florida and Arizona. It was closer in California, but no ethnic group anywhere rejected the sanctioning of same-sex unions as emphatically as the state's black voters, according to exit polls. Fifty-three percent of Latinos also backed Proposition 8, overcoming the bare majority of white Californians who voted to let the court ruling stand.

"I think it's mainly because of the way we were brought up in the church; we don't agree with it," said Jasmine Jones, 25, who is black. "I'm not really the type that I wanted to stop people's rights. But I still have my beliefs, and if I can vote my beliefs that's what I'm going to do.
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And how many of those black voters, do you suppose, are Mormon?
Do ya think black Mormons voting FOR Prop 8 numbered more than a few hundred?
Now granted, I ain't never seen a Mormon church in the hood, but maybe they do exist. So bump that up to perhaps 1,000 votes???

Ironic that the same forces sweeping Obama into office (record number of black and hispanic voters) were also the primary reason Prop 8 passed.

Imagine if the next presidential election is a choice between Obama and Palin. I might just have to see if I can sneak across the border. I think I'd have a better quality of life in Canada (or maybe even in Mexico) than living in the America either one of those fools will create.

Maybe we should all hope the Mayans were right.
 
The Thriller said:
I couldn't help but get a laugh when reading this review and then remembering this thread...

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/700041139/8-The-Mormon-Proposition-is-one-sided-and-inept.html
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To be fair, what else was the Deseret News going to write? "The people who own our newspaper are, as the movie portrays, total ********."

Given that the movie literally opened today, I think it's a little unfair to judge how successful it is (even by the modest standards of documentaries) before 3:00 PM.

The movie is only in 16 theaters right now. Frankly, I'll be stunned if it breaks the $500,000 mark or even the $250,000 mark.

I'll, however, watch it in my living room this evening on On Demand for $6.99.
 
Archie Moses said:
The Thriller also provided us with https://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1810129074/user. It was given a C- review.
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I frankly just didn't even take that seriously given that it's just 11 random people who happened to go to the yahoo movie page. It doesn't even look like any single person gave it a C, it's mostly A's and F's. That's the trend among the smattering of professional reviewers who have seen it too.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/8_...rtby=date&name_order=asc&view=#contentReviews
 
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