The OFFICIAL don't draft Joel Embiid thread

[Beantown]

Every year there is the super raw African big men that never pans out. Now I understand that Embiid is playing college ball but he fits this exact same mold. He is super raw, super skinny and all he really offers is potential. So here are my three reasons to not draft him:

#1-He's skinny, and yes he's tall but not tall enough where is thin frame won't come in to play. Rudy Gobert can get away with being skinny because he has ELITE length. Embiid will need to add substantial weight to be competitive.

#2-Embiid doesn't do anything ELITE. He is raw offensively, he only averages 7 rebounds and he ranks 28th in the NCAA in blocked shots.

#3-He's as a big of a project as they come. The Jazz are not in the position for a project. They need someone in this draft to come in and contribute from day 1. Plus you factor in the Jazz already have Favors, Kanter and Gobert and at this point he would see no playing time. We are already developing three big men.


Embiid just screams to me Hasheem Thabeet. Thabeet also had AMAZING college numbers in his junior year and was much more developed. In fact looking back at the draft history the only similar guy I can see like this working out is Serge Ibaka.

I'm not saying Embiid will never be a good player but he is the riskiest pick in the top 5. With this type of draft this is a risk that the Jazz should not gamble on.

 

[Avery]

This guy is much better than someone like Saer Sene. With Favors and Kanter capable of holding down the 4 and the 5, I wouldn't personally take him with the #1 pick, but considering where his game is and how long he's played, he's a much better offensive player than most guys that fit his description.

 

[Stoked]

Every year there is the super raw African big men that never pans out. Now I understand that Embiid is playing college ball but he fits this exact same mold. He is super raw, super skinny and all he really offers is potential. So here are my three reasons to not draft him:

#1-He's skinny, and yes he's tall but not tall enough where is thin frame won't come in to play. Rudy Gobert can get away with being skinny because he has ELITE length. Embiid will need to add substantial weight to be competitive.

#2-Embiid doesn't do anything ELITE. He is raw offensively, he only averages 7 rebounds and he ranks 28th in the NCAA in blocked shots.

#3-He's as a big of a project as they come. The Jazz are not in the position for a project. They need someone in this draft to come in and contribute from day 1. Plus you factor in the Jazz already have Favors, Kanter and Gobert and at this point he would see no playing time. We are already developing three big men.


Embiid just screams to me Hasheem Thabeet. Thabeet also had AMAZING college numbers in his junior year and was much more developed. In fact looking back at the draft history the only similar guy I can see like this working out is Serge Ibaka.

I'm not saying Embiid will never be a good player but he is the riskiest pick in the top 5. With this type of draft this is a risk that the Jazz should not gamble on.

You are right. All African big men must be the same. Pass...

 

[JimLes]

You are right. All African big men must be the same. Pass...

It's not about being African or not being African. I'm wary of anyone who started playing basketball 17.

 

[8]

Embiid has a brain, Thabeet does not. Embiid is way more polished right now than Thabeet ever was in college.

 

[YB85]

Link?

 

[Beantown]

You are right. All African big men must be the same. Pass...

Give me a break. Don't try and throw race into this. Its a fact, we have seen plenty of big men from African nations come and go. They rarely ever stick in the league. They have only played basketball for a few years, they are raw and then they never develop.

Look at Thabeet, he didn't start playing basketball until he was 15. He had REALLY impressive college numbers and then in the NBA he couldn't do anything. His skinny frame was unable to compete in the NBA.

How many skinny NBA centers in the league are dominating right now? Doesn't matter if they are black, white, blue or red. A really thin framed NBA center will never succeed in the league. Unless they have elite length.

The only guy that goes against this is Joakim Noah. But he is from NY and has played basketball his entire life and he still struggles against bigger centers.

 

[Stifle Tower]

You are right. All African big men must be the same. Pass...

Reported for being racialist.

I agree with Beantown's conclusion, although not necessarily his entire argument.
Jazz already have a solid, but raw prospect in Gobert. They have Kanter. And they've locked up Favors long-term. Embiid is not the overwhelming #1 BPA. Certainly not like some other 5's in past drafts. I think there are 5-6 players who may have very close overall draft grades - all for different reasons. In that case, need comes into play. And what the Jazz need is a starting SF, a stretch-4 and outside shooting. I don't want MW or RJ back next season. They are simply not good enough to be regular contributors as the Jazz (HOPEFULLY) build an upper-echelon team.

Jazz can certainly draft at any position, but Parker would be the ideal fit, able to move into a starting position without displacing any of the other core players. Put Exum, Smart or Wiggins into the mix and players either need to be shifted or traded. I actually think Kanter will be offered around as trade bait in order to obtain a starting PF or starting SF.

 

[orangello]

I love me some Kanter but he worries me from time to time (like last night). I'd seriously consider him if the Jazz land the #1 pick or if they get the #2 and Embiid is still available.

 

[Stoked]

Give me a break. Don't try and throw race into this. Its a fact, we have seen plenty of big men from African nations come and go. They rarely ever stick in the league. They have only played basketball for a few years, they are raw and then they never develop.

Look at Thabeet, he didn't start playing basketball until he was 15. He had REALLY impressive college numbers and then in the NBA he couldn't do anything. His skinny frame was unable to compete in the NBA.

How many skinny NBA centers in the league are dominating right now? Doesn't matter if they are black, white, blue or red. A really thin framed NBA center will never succeed in the league. Unless they have elite length.

The only guy that goes against this is Joakim Noah. But he is from NY and has played basketball his entire life and he still struggles against bigger centers.

If you have followed my posting at all you know I am the last to truly throw a racism card in the mix. I was just messing with you.

 

[Beantown]

Embiid has a brain, Thabeet does not. Embiid is way more polished right now than Thabeet ever was in college.

Are you on drugs? Look at Thabeets college stats.

Embiid doesn't even average a double double.

 

[Beantown]

A player similar in size to Embiid is Anthony Davis. But he is truly the exception. If Embiid starts averaging Davis's freshman numbers I will jump right on the band wagon with drafting him.

But we are talking about a top 3 pick! This guy should be averaging a double double and be higher than 28th in blocked shots.

 

[8]

Are you on drugs? Look at Thabeets college stats.

Embiid doesn't even average a double double.

Yes

Stats don't tell this story. I'm done speaking w/ you

When did UConn ever run a post isolation for Thabeet? Maybe after they went through three other options.

 

[GVC]

Look at Thabeet, he didn't start playing basketball until he was 15. He had REALLY impressive college numbers...

Thabeet did not have REALLY impressive college numbers. Have you watched Embiid play? His feel for the game, footwork and touch are fantastic. Calling him raw is beyond ridiculous.

He's one of 8 BCS Conference players (averaging 20+ minutes per game) who has per-40 minutes pace adjusted averages of 15+ points, 10+ rebounds and 3+ blocks. Among that group, he's the youngest, most efficient scorer (by a wide margin), top rebounder, and third in scoring (the two above him are undersized juniors).

 

[b_line]

A player similar in size to Embiid is Anthony Davis. But he is truly the exception. If Embiid starts averaging Davis's freshman numbers I will jump right on the band wagon with drafting him.

But we are talking about a top 3 pick! This guy should be averaging a double double and be higher than 28th in blocked shots.

Have you looked at the minutes Embiid plays? He only plays like 20 minutes per game. He is killing it on a per minute basis.

You don't draft Embiid based on what he is now, but what he will become. He is a smart player, who learns quick, but he has only been playing basketball for a few years. He has unlimited potential. If he reaches his potential, he will probably be better than anyone currently playing not named LeBron or Durant.

Also, Embiid already has 2 inches and 30-40 pounds on Anthony Davis, so they are not really the same size.

 

[GVC]

A player similar in size to Embiid is Anthony Davis. But he is truly the exception. If Embiid starts averaging Davis's freshman numbers I will jump right on the band wagon with drafting him.

Per pace adjusted minutes, he's averaging more points AND rebounds than Davis did as a freshman, and scoring more efficiently. His PER (I hate this stat FWIW) is also 2.5 points higher than Davis's was. Embiid's stats are as good as Davis's freshman stats.

 

[Beantown]

Thabeet did not have REALLY impressive college numbers. Have you watched Embiid play? His feel for the game, footwork and touch are fantastic. Calling him raw is beyond ridiculous.

He's one of 8 BCS Conference players (averaging 20+ minutes per game) who has per-40 minutes pace adjusted averages of 15+ points, 10+ rebounds and 3+ blocks. Among that group, he's the youngest, most efficient scorer (by a wide margin), top rebounder, and third in scoring (the two above him are undersized juniors).

If 13.6 points 11 rebounds and 4 blocks isn't "impressive" than Embiid is really really "unimpressive".

Embiid isn't even in the top 100 players in NCAA rebounding.

 

[GVC]

Are you on drugs? Look at Thabeets college stats.

Embiid doesn't even average a double double.

Thabeet averaged 6 and 6, playing 25 minutes per game, as a freshman. Are you on drugs?

 

[8]

If 13.6 points 11 rebounds and 4 blocks isn't "impressive" than Embiid is really really "unimpressive".

Embiid isn't even in the top 100 players in NCAA rebounding.

I'm going to guess that he's not playing as many minutes as basically everyone in the top 100.

Not to mention that he's got a team full of excellent rebounders.

You're trippin

 

[Beantown]

Per pace adjusted minutes, he's averaging more points AND rebounds than Davis did as a freshman, and scoring more efficiently. His PER (I hate this stat FWIW) is also 2.5 points higher than Davis's was. Embiid's stats are as good as Davis's freshman stats.

I will give you credit on this. But I am not a huge fan of per 40 stats. You are either putting up the numbers or you are not. Stamina and durablity has to be factored in. And to be honest Im not sure why Embiid isnt getting more time.

But considering my signature I will take your draft scouting reports with a grain of salt.