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GVC

Well-Known Member
https://www.nba.com/jazz/stats/

For the first time this season, every player on the Jazz is shooting over .400. I realize this should be no big deal, but fr whatever reason I thought I'd point it out.

Unfortunately, the Jazz are still 12th in FG% as a team, but I expect that to improve moving forward.
 
Everyone is still shooting a pretty "eh" percentage (except Sap of course) yet our record is outstanding. Percentages should adjust positively and we could be even stronger.
 
....I noticed our turnovers are down almost 2 per game from last year! Boozer averaged almost 3 and Jefferson is averaging just a tad bit over 1! I think our turnovers will drop even more once these new guys get a hang of it...and Deron cuts down on his!
 
Everyone is still shooting a pretty "eh" percentage (except Sap of course) yet our record is outstanding. Percentages should adjust positively and we could be even stronger.

Our record is outstanding because we play defense this year. We are in games where we are only scoring 88-94 points. That shows you are playing defense. We never played defense last year. Just tried to outscore teams. Also turnovers are huge. We don't turn over the ball in crucial situations. That killed us last year. We are a top 4 team this year in the West, hands down. Once we are hitting on all cylinders I think we are the # 2 or 3 team. After the Lakers and maybe Spurs.
 
....I think our turnovers will drop even more once these new guys get a hang of it...and Deron cuts down on his!

I think the catch-22 with Deron is, he is willing to play a little risky. This type of play can easily result in turnovers, but also leads to some of his most brilliant moments. You take the good with the bad. The best point guards figure out how to minimize that risk, but it is a process.
 
Also turnovers are huge. We don't turn over the ball in crucial situations. That killed us last year.

...well, I've finally got someone in my corner on this! Considering that turnovers are essentially 4 point plays...the two we should get and the two the opposition now gets....cutting down by 2 per game is like adding 8 points to your score! Boozer was quite proficient in doing just that! Now that he's gone....turnovers are down, defense is up and winning percentage is also up!
 
uh...more like 2.5.

....your heading for a basket....the ball slips out of your hands, turnover going the other way. Opponent who picked up the loose ball dunks on your head. 4 point swing.....x......2 turnovers.....equals 8 point swing. THat's all I was saying.
 
....your heading for a basket....the ball slips out of your hands, turnover going the other way. Opponent who picked up the loose ball dunks on your head. 4 point swing.....x......2 turnovers.....equals 8 point swing. THat's all I was saying.
You're double counting. After you score a bucket, the other team gets the ball, just like after a turnover. Also, the average possession ends in a team scoring 1.065 points, so a reduction in 2 turnovers (assuming that offensive efficiency is, on average, unaffected by turnovers) would lead to adding about 2.13 points to your score (I rounded WAY up to avoid unnecessary contention).

For it to lead to 8 more points, you'd have to have two consecutive 4 point plays. Has that ever happened?
 
You're double counting. After you score a bucket, the other team gets the ball, just like after a turnover. Also, the average possession ends in a team scoring 1.065 points, so a reduction in 2 turnovers (assuming that offensive efficiency is, on average, unaffected by turnovers) would lead to adding about 2.13 points to your score (I rounded WAY up to avoid unnecessary contention).

For it to lead to 8 more points, you'd have to have two consecutive 4 point plays. Has that ever happened?

One thing, and I have no idea if there is any way to quantify it, is the type of possession. I would assume that turnovers become fast breaks much more often than the after-basket inbound pass, thus are scored at a higher percentage. Certainly not to the tune of 8 pts for every 2 TO's, though...

But I guess that only takes into account possessions that end in either a turnover or made basket. You still have to account for missed shots that are rebounded by your opponent...

Oh hell. Nevermind.
 
A good read on the subject, CJ:

https://www.nba.com/celtics/stats/InsideTheNumbers11072005.html

This is why Celtic coaches do not rely on the "points off turnovers" statistic to determine the cost of turnovers to the team. Rather, they focus on the true costs of turnovers, which are twofold:

  • First, the biggest cost of a turnover is that the team who turned the ball over loses an offensive scoring opportunity. This, and not the opponent's next possession, is the most important cost of committing a turnover. Teams only get about 94 offensive possessions per game, and the loss of one of these scoring opportunities, much like an out in baseball, is not something you can get back. The Celtics average about 1.21 points per possession when they don't commit a turnover; so each turnover, on average, costs the team one of these opportunities.
  • Second, the opponent often gets an improved scoring opportunity off a turnover. This varies by type of turnovers, however; an offensive foul after which the defense is able to set up will not improve the opponent's chances of scoring against that defense - they are as likely to score as they would have been had they scored and called a timeout. In contrast, a steal leading to a high-percentage fast break can be a particularly costly turnover. On average, Celtic opponents score 0.08 more points following our turnovers than they do when they get the ball at other times.
So the true "points off of turnovers" for Celtic opponents is about 1.29 points per turnover, though obviously this will vary on any given night depending on the type of turnover and when in our offensive possession it occurred.
So 2 turnovers = 2.58 points.
 
One thing, and I have no idea if there is any way to quantify it, is the type of possession. I would assume that turnovers become fast breaks much more often than the after-basket inbound pass, thus are scored at a higher percentage. Certainly not to the tune of 8 pts for every 2 TO's, though...

But I guess that only takes into account possessions that end in either a turnover or made basket. You still have to account for missed shots that are rebounded by your opponent...

Oh hell. Nevermind.
My post above answers your question.
 
I think the catch-22 with Deron is, he is willing to play a little risky. This type of play can easily result in turnovers, but also leads to some of his most brilliant moments. You take the good with the bad. The best point guards figure out how to minimize that risk, but it is a process.

I'd be willing to bet that more of Deron's assists lead to dunks or blocks than any other player in the league. He always looks inside first and tries to force things a bit sometimes before kicking it out to the 3 point line.
 
CJ is assuming we would have scored on those possessions.

Lose out on our 2 and the opponent gets an easy 2. 4 point swing.

Of course, there is no way to assure we would have scored if we didn't turn it over.
 
CJ is assuming we would have scored on those possessions.

Lose out on our 2 and the opponent gets an easy 2. 4 point swing.

Of course, there is no way to assure we would have scored if we didn't turn it over.
He was double counting. It really is pretty simple. Read the posted quote from the posted article. Even if a team scores two points on their lost possessions, it is only a 2 point difference (plus a fraction of a point for ease of turnover buckets). This shouldn't have to be explained multiple times.
 
A good read on the subject, CJ:

https://www.nba.com/celtics/stats/InsideTheNumbers11072005.html

So 2 turnovers = 2.58 points.

...nice find...and I'm not disputing the statistical truth of the matter. However, we turn the ball over on what should have been a easy basket (we miss getting two points)....opponent gets turnovered ball...scores easy basket. Instead of being 2-0 us....it's now 2-0 them! 2 points subtracted plus 2 points added...is a 4 point swing! Times 2 turnovers is an 8 point swing! Maybe it could better be explained with this video!

https://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7106559846794044495&q=ma+and+pa+kettle
 
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