From Mormon Women, a Flood of Requests and Questions on Their Role in the Church | NY Times
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pickledXgrandma
Well-Known Member
I wonder how our Heavenly Mother feels about this?
to be honest with you, I'm none too pleased.
I will not debate the merits of the article as I am not LDS and won't claim to know the truth as to their policies.
However, taking the article at face value, I feel a religion has the authority to decide its beliefs just as individuals have the right to decide whether theyre willing to accept them.
I personally don't subscribe to the belief that women shouldn't play a larger role... but I won't get into the reasons.
Having said that, I do find it disturbing about women being subjected to the intimate questioning of men. I feel those issues are solely between the individual and God. Church leaders should teach about repentance, God's grace, and encourage praying to God rather than some dude handling God's business.
Sorry... I got off topic a bit. I just hate the idea that any man has authority to ridicule and/or punish another person (especially one that is deemed unworthy at birth because of gender) when we ALL.. EVERY ONE OF US have sinned and continue to do so.
I'd like to know where these men receive their ridicule for jacking off....
However, taking the article at face value, I feel a religion has the authority to decide its beliefs just as individuals have the right to decide whether theyre willing to accept them.
I personally don't subscribe to the belief that women shouldn't play a larger role... but I won't get into the reasons.
Having said that, I do find it disturbing about women being subjected to the intimate questioning of men. I feel those issues are solely between the individual and God. Church leaders should teach about repentance, God's grace, and encourage praying to God rather than some dude handling God's business.
Sorry... I got off topic a bit. I just hate the idea that any man has authority to ridicule and/or punish another person (especially one that is deemed unworthy at birth because of gender) when we ALL.. EVERY ONE OF US have sinned and continue to do so.
I'd like to know where these men receive their ridicule for jacking off....
To me there are two parts to this. The revealed doctrine and the traditions/culture of the Church. For example keeping the Sabbath Day Holy is doctrine. Wearing a white shirt and suit to Church is a traditional part of doing that. Maybe a hundred years from now something else will be traditional.
I have been to LDS services in other countries and while they are similar that are different. Cultures change and will continue to change.
As for some of the requested changes:
I can't see any reason why a woman being interviewed by a bishop couldn't ask another woman to join her. In fact I can think of circumstances where it has happened. Seems like a reasonable practice to me.
As for ordaining woman to the priesthood, I don't see it ever happening.
Maybe there will be additional female speakers in General Conference etc. in the future.
Simply put when Jesus was on earth he didn't ordain any female apostles. Nor is being ordained required for salvation.
I have been to LDS services in other countries and while they are similar that are different. Cultures change and will continue to change.
As for some of the requested changes:
I can't see any reason why a woman being interviewed by a bishop couldn't ask another woman to join her. In fact I can think of circumstances where it has happened. Seems like a reasonable practice to me.
As for ordaining woman to the priesthood, I don't see it ever happening.
Maybe there will be additional female speakers in General Conference etc. in the future.
Simply put when Jesus was on earth he didn't ordain any female apostles. Nor is being ordained required for salvation.
I am going to tread into dangerous ground and attempt to answer your questions.
The men (generally local leaders-Bishops and Stake Presidents) are charged with asking these questions as a part of the repentance process which includes confessing your sins. For most of these men this is difficult and uncomfortable position to be in. Note that repenting of most sins only requires confession to God in prayer and sinning no more. Note confession to God precedes any confession to a Bishop.
As Bishops and Stake Presidents are called of God to minister to their local flocks they can expect Divine help.
Serious sins include sexual sins and murder require full confessions.
Most of the time Bishop's are in a position to help a person.
Now for the next part. While anyone can attend Sunday services, being a member of the Church is a privilege that you have to qualify for. Sometimes Bishop's and other male leaders are required to judge if serious sins are being sincerely repented of. Some sins are enough to disqualify a person from membership. While it is possible for them to eventually regain their membership this is what the judging is about.
I believe that in the end this is merciful as member have responsibilities that require unfettered access to divine help. Sinning is a person choosing to distance themselves from that divine help.
In the end anything done on the Earth will be corrected in the Final Judgements by God.
Men are expected to meet the same requirements.
As noted in my last post- I can't think about a good reason why if a person confessing wants another person in the room that can't be the case. I guess it is assumed that the confessor doesn't want to tell more people than necessary.
When Jesus spoke with the prostitute and said go and sin no more... I wonder if he asked all women present to leave before speaking to her?
Btw.. religions have nuances.. known as indviduals. I never hold an entire religion accountable because of individual's rites and/or interpretations. Religions would do well to not act so holy so those on the outside didn't have to call BS.
Btw.. religions have nuances.. known as indviduals. I never hold an entire religion accountable because of individual's rites and/or interpretations. Religions would do well to not act so holy so those on the outside didn't have to call BS.
Thanks. I am sure this was sincere and it is appreciated.
Having said that, I honestly find the bolded as offensive to my spirit. (and that's okay, as I am not LDS)
The Bible teaches us ALL sin separates us from God and the only unpardonable sin is the blaspheming of the Holy Spirit.
I cringe at the thought of one sinful man deciding the fate (church membership or otherwise) of another sinful man based on the magnitude of the sin being greater than his own.
I'm not mad. But I have grown tired of all religions. They all try to replace the simplicity of God's love and Jesus' gift of salvation with complex man made ordinances that merely serve to create hierarchical systems that are precisely similar to those of the pharisees. (remember how simple Jesus' message was compared to those being delivered by the 'clergy' of those days?) <------------- What's the difference today? This 'reformation' is actually nothing more than regression.
Yes. And she was a prior prostitute. And she was the first to have seen the risen Jesus.. making her a sort of "apostle to the apostles."
I've read several historical books on early Christianity, where it was argued that her role was actually one of the more important early Christian leaders and she was one of the closes followers of the historical Jesus. However infighting between the followers after the Crucifixion led to records of her role erased or diminished. After all, the history (and the gospel) is written by the victors. There are no direct evidence (read - its not in the New Testament) that she was a prostitute or did anything immoral.
This is true. The fact that Mary was a prostitute is a reach. First of all, the word prostitute doesn't show in the Bible. Harlot does.. but mostly adulterer... which of course have different meanings. Some conclude that Mary was the woman in the temple that Jesus spared from being stoned for adultery but there is no evidence of that being the case.
Speaking purely from a biblical sense, we only know a few things about Mary;
- Jesus expelled 7 demons from her
- she was a devout disciple of Jesus Christ
- she was present for the crucifixion
- she was first to have seen the risen Christ
b_line
Well-Known Member
The reasons in this article are among the number of reasons I and a lot of my friends are disaffected Mormons. Mormon apologetics and justifications do nothing but drive those who have concerns farther away from being mormon.
As for the question of a bishop talking about a woman's sex life one on one with that woman, or man, or youth, I find it completely inappropriate and unnecessary. Aside from that, with how many bad things are going on out there, do any of us really think Jesus is that concerned with someone fooling around with their significant other or with thensekves ?
As for the question of a bishop talking about a woman's sex life one on one with that woman, or man, or youth, I find it completely inappropriate and unnecessary. Aside from that, with how many bad things are going on out there, do any of us really think Jesus is that concerned with someone fooling around with their significant other or with thensekves ?
Beantown
Well-Known Member
I agree with some of the article. Mostly about women being put in awkward positions with leaders.The fight for the Priesthood seems odd to me. As sexist as it sounds the Church wants mothers to be able to spend as much time with their children as possible and the higher callings like Bishop and Stake President are almost like a second job. Also I don't think they realize how important the Primary and Relief Society programs are. Those are strictly run by women and are in charge of teaching children and helping members and the community as a whole. So if they are doing stupid activities well then its the....women that are at fault.
But as one who has daughters I would not feel comfortable them telling a male bishop about their ************ problem when they are teenagers. That is going too far. And if my teenager had a sexual issue that we felt needed help and guidance from our bishop I would want my wife present during the meeting.
But as one who has daughters I would not feel comfortable them telling a male bishop about their ************ problem when they are teenagers. That is going too far. And if my teenager had a sexual issue that we felt needed help and guidance from our bishop I would want my wife present during the meeting.
I do not see the LDS faith giving women the priesthood. Just don't see it.
However I do think some compromises can, should and will be made. For examples:
-Allowing a mother to hold a child during a blessing
-Opening and closing prayers at conferences
-Increased speaking roles, including speaking roles at priesthood meetings
-A female counselor to the local bishops
-Increasing the emphasis put on young women programs, perhaps link them to girl scouts the way young men programs are
However I do think some compromises can, should and will be made. For examples:
-Allowing a mother to hold a child during a blessing
-Opening and closing prayers at conferences
-Increased speaking roles, including speaking roles at priesthood meetings
-A female counselor to the local bishops
-Increasing the emphasis put on young women programs, perhaps link them to girl scouts the way young men programs are
Beantown
Well-Known Member
The church had looked into the Girl Scouts but its very different from Boy Scouts. Girl Scout is a crock of ********. Its just a pyramid scheme to sell cookies. This is why the church created its own Young Women's program where than can have goals and achievements.
Eventually I could see the church getting rid of Boy Scouts and creating their own Young mens program as well.
Fair enough. But do you disagree that there is a higher emphasis put on young mens programs? Also if that is the case will the LDS church pull back from the boy scouts now that it is more in tune with homo members and ideas?
Also what do you think of my other ideas? Here are some more.
- Allow young women to collect fast offering
- Help prepare the sacrament before the meeting starts (lay out the tablecloth and trays...)
- Mother/daughter camping trips
mellow
Well-Known Member
In a word yes. YW camps the church owns are nicer than anything I ever stayed in for scouts, YW given same or more budget dollars in every Ward I've been a part of. Yw given same access to church facilities for activities, YW has more church produced curriculum, manuals, programs than the ym do.
YM have more activities, meeting and responsibilities than YW from my experiences. But isnt that the point of this thread? More repsonsibility for women?
Anyone care to chime in on my 10 or so ideas? Other than YM v. YW?
Pretty much anything the Savior said to anyone else in private we don't have. Most of what we have is what Christ did or said publicly. This is just off the top of my head of what I can remember. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Also, in regards to "being a member of the Church is a privilege that you have to qualify for" being offensive to you.
Are you saying the Apostles of the Lord should not have given instruction to people because they were sinners, and that we should all just mind our own business and not try to help each other so as to allow each person to find their own way unhindered.
I always thought we were here to help each other and share our burdens. If the Lord saw fit to call apostles to lead his people even though they were sinners, and trusted them to lead and correct his people, I don't see why there cannot be others besides those apostles that can be entrusted with something similar.