Another victim of no bad breeds mentality

[franklin]

Are you making a states rights argument? Why are you arguing on behalf of something you don't believe in? It didn't sound like that was your original position.

Wut?

 

[babe]

Don't get me wrong, I think Franklin* is very smart. I also think he argues from positions he does not believe in all the time.

Don't get me wrong. I think growing up involves taking ground that doesn't start with "I know. . .", or end "in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen." Usually, folks will have to listen to the idea and see if it has some value, rather than automatically "feel good" you brought it out. . . ., and it might not be easy to "box", or dispose of. . . . .

And even seeing that, it sometimes seems pretty good to me to see someone working out on the CFR ropes, or the Republican or Democratic platform statements as well, because sometimes you just need some kind of predictable discussion as well. . . .

all that said, I know Franklin makes the effort to ride the edge and come up with something original, or valuable, and I might have some issues with the specifics, but I love that spirit. . . .

 

[Stoked]

Don't get me wrong. I think growing up involves taking ground that doesn't start with "I know. . .", or end "in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen." Usually, folks will have to listen to the idea and see if it has some value, rather than automatically "feel good" you brought it out. . . ., and it might not be easy to "box", or dispose of. . . . .

And even seeing that, it sometimes seems pretty good to me to see someone working out on the CFR ropes, or the Republican or Democratic platform statements as well, because sometimes you just need some kind of predictable discussion as well. . . .

all that said, I know Franklin makes the effort to ride the edge and come up with something original, or valuable, and I might have some issues with the specifics, but I love that spirit. . . .

Fair enough. For me it just takes away any desire to engage him on anything.

New ideas, thoughts, viewpoints...are all great and should be shared and listened to. Just hard for me to pay much attention when that's not the point behind doing so. I prefer some genuine insights.

Maybe I am dead wrong but I just don't get that from Franklin like I do you. Hell I even get that feeling from One Brow. He at least believes what he is saying.

 

[babe]

Are you making a states rights argument? Why are you arguing on behalf of something you don't believe in? It didn't sound like that was your original position.

Our founding fathers were representing state interests in securing an effective federal administration capable of presenting a united and credible front in international affairs. It is amazing that they invoked principles of the sort they did, which even allows for more local government to have any significant power. But the idea that government should belong to the governed, at whatever level of organization, is the most essential idea our human hopes depend upon for our future of liberty and actual relevance in our world. It is the idea that will save us from fascist globalism and corporatism, perhaps. Walmart and other "Big Box" retailers, and the Agenda 21 morons, have corrupted our local governments and made them into cookie-cutter stamps of conformity with no accountability to their own citizens, but a simple revolution can change all that in a single election, if the idea of government of the people, by the people, and for the people is injected into the local elections. . . . .

So lets go for more local government, and get as much power distributed to them as we possibly can.

One thing I've learned from keeping chickens is you have got to keep them close enough you will hear them squawk when the coyotes or wolves get in the coop. Government servants are just as stupid as chickens, but if they're close enough you can hear the disturbance when "the interests" are messing with them, you can do something about it. . . . .

 

[Stoked]

Our founding fathers were representing state interests in securing an effective federal administration capable of presenting a united and credible front in international affairs. It is amazing that they invoked principles of the sort they did, which even allows for more local government to have any significant power. But the idea that government should belong to the governed, at whatever level of organization, is the most essential idea our human hopes depend upon for our future of liberty and actual relevance in our world. It is the idea that will save us from fascist globalism and corporatism, perhaps. Walmart and other "Big Box" retailers, and the Agenda 21 morons, have corrupted our local governments and made them into cookie-cutter stamps of conformity with no accountability to their own citizens, but a simple revolution can change all that in a single election, if the idea of government of the people, by the people, and for the people is injected into the local elections. . . . .

So lets go for more local government, and get as much power distributed to them as we possibly can.

One thing I've learned from keeping chickens is you have got to keep them close enough you will hear them squawk when the coyotes or wolves get in the coop. Government servants are just as stupid as chickens, but if they're close enough you can hear the disturbance when "the interests" are messing with them, you can do something about it. . . . .

hahahahaha.

 

[babe]

Fair enough. For me it just takes away any desire to engage him on anything.

New ideas, thoughts, viewpoints...are all great and should be shared and listened to. Just hard fo rme to pay much attention when that's not the point behind doing so. I prefer some genuine insights.

Maybe i am dead wrong but I just don't get that from Franklin like I do you.

you young bucks have issues and horns, but sometimes when you get older you learn to just leave well enough alone. . . . Franklin can be hard on me sometimes, too. I just accept that's his way. . . .

putting a positive spin on something you can't change is a trick of the mind, perhaps, but it can make your day seem better. . . . .

I don't do that for OB, of course. Every good idea has some limits. In the case of OB, it's just too compelling to have a sort of foil to run against when someone seems to represent the whole problem you see with mankind. . . . a virtual illustration of every issue you care to prattle on about. . . . .

Amazing to see OB's pluck for carrying on like I'm his ideal foil, as well. . . . .

But my main point here was to cheer for Franklin's comment that local government should be the "go to" level for as many of our governance needs as we can possibly contrive to dump in their laps, and the big bad State government has all the proclivities, in their own scale, as the Federal government does. . . . .

The big bad world governance corporatists/fascists have a slogan. . . . "Think globally. Act locally" . . . . and they are acting to take over every local government even more effectively than they can control State, national, or regional governance. . . . . And that is where the battle will really happen. . . . .

 

[Stoked]

you young bucks have issues and horns, but sometimes when you get older you learn to just leave well enough alone. . . . Franklin can be hard on me sometimes, too. I just accept that's his way. . . .

putting a positive spin on something you can't change is a trick of the mind, perhaps, but it can make your day seem better. . . . .

That right there is where we differ. You think it is his way and I think it is his act. But it's all good. He has as much right to post what he wants as you and I do.

 

[Stoked]

To me what is more interesting is at what point/level does the wishes of a society trump the wishes of an individual person.

Let's say that banning pitbulls is a good idea. Should it be done nationally? state by state? COunty by county or at the individual city and town levels?

Why should people in MA ot TX decide what kind of dog a person in FL or AZ can have? Or people in LA decide what kind of dog a person in Fresno can have?

 

[babe]

just tying this thread back together. . . .

The push for the ideal of "no bad breeds" seems to have "progressive" roots. Even Obama has weighed in on the issue, saying ordinances that are breed-specific are bad. . . .

Too bad the progressives won't admit there are "no bad citizens", as well, and make room for actual citizens with personal rights. . . . . even if they snarl at political correctness or the pet causes du jour.

 

[Stoked]

just tying this thread back together. . . .

The push for the ideal of "no bad breeds" seems to have "progressive" roots. Even Obama has weighed in on the issue, saying ordinances that are breed-specific are bad. . . .

Too bad the progressives won't admit there are "no bad citizens", as well, and make room for actual citizens with personal rights. . . . . even if they snarl at political correctness or the pet causes du jour.

lol That's me. But the reason I take most of my stance (or at least try to) is on the grounds of personal liberty.

 

[babe]

To me what is more interesting is at what point/level does the wishes of a society trump the wishes of an individual person.

Let's say that banning pitbulls is a good idea. Should it be done nationally? state by state? COunty by county or at the individual city and town levels?

Why should people in MA ot TX decide what kind of dog a person in FL or AZ can have? Or people in LA decide what kind of dog a person in Fresno can have?

The "no bad breeds" idea has correlations with folks who think racism is bad as a general principle.

Dog breeding is the art of selecting for some useful or desired qualities in dogs. Interesting to note how the British gentry has been the most influential source of dog breeds worldwide. The very idea of superior traits or desired attributes in a living thing is about the exact definition of racism, but they won't acknowledge that is what it is. . . .

the idea of the existence of some "good" cannot be expressed without the inference that there is some kind of "bad". In nature, it might be theorized that survival and propagation are the relevant issues, and that these are determined by the circumstances holding in the context. . . . but I would argue that every form or life involves some cognition and some action following that "intelligence".

Some insects employ farm methods, managing "useful" helpers the way we manage cattle. . . . . Are these insects criminal? Should there be a law against such exploitation????

No.

Let people decide what they want their animals to be, and government just leave us the hell alone. But since we will have "government", and people will want one thing or another, I say the more local the decision, the better. Let the British gentry cultivate their little misfit monsters, and let the illegal immigrants' subculture cultivate theirs. . . . their fighting dogs, their buzzed roosters, whatever. . . . Why can't the corporatist elites let the downtrodden masses have hellfire biting dogs behind their doors in the ghetto??? They have their cops and swat teams. Fair's fair I say.

 

[Stoked]

The "no bad breeds" idea has correlations with folks who think racism is bad as a general principle.

Dog breeding is the art of selecting for some useful or desired qualities in dogs. Interesting to note how the British gentry has been the most influential source of dog breeds worldwide. The very idea of superior traits or desired attributes in a living thing is about the exact definition of racism, but they won't acknowledge that is what it is. . . .

the idea of the existence of some "good" cannot be expressed without the inference that there is some kind of "bad". In nature, it might be theorized that survival and propagation are the relevant issues, and that these are determined by the circumstances holding in the context. . . . but I would argue that every form or life involves some cognition and some action following that "intelligence".

Some insects employ farm methods, managing "useful" helpers the way we manage cattle. . . . . Are these insects criminal? Should there be a law against such exploitation????

No.

Let people decide what they want their animals to be, and government just leave us the hell alone. But since we will have "government", and people will want one thing or another, I say the more local the decision, the better. Let the British gentry cultivate their little misfit monsters, and let the illegal immigrants' subculture cultivate theirs. . . . their fighting dogs, their buzzed roosters, whatever. . . . Why can't the corporatist elites let the downtrodden masses have hellfire biting dogs behind their doors in the ghetto??? They have their cops and swat teams. Fair's fair I say.

I am all for letting people own any kind of dog they want. I am all for personal rights and being able to live how you want as long as you care for you and your own. (obvious limitations/laws excluded)

I was just going with the principle of, at what point is people interfering with other people acceptable and at what point is it not.

 

[babe]

btw, that would be a sic (sic) - maybe even a sick sic (sic)

telling a sick dog to attack??? that's wmd category biological warfare, covered in the war crimes section of the rules civilized nations have codified for particularly conspicuous contempt exhibitions of power.

 

[babe]

I am all for letting people own any kind of dog they want. I am all for personal rights and being able to live how you want as long as you care for you and your own. (obvious limitations/laws excluded)

I was just going with the principle of, at what point is people interfering with other people acceptable and at what point is it not.

I had noticed your drift, but thought I had that answered with the elitists who train cops and swat teams and other mentally-compromised species to conduct routine depredations on the trailertrash they see us as. . . .

me, I want me my wolf/malemute honeybunch that will literally disarm anyone who frowns at me across my threshold. . . .

I'm sure my ghettomates like their rotts and fight dogs for much the same reason. The occasional kid that shoots himself or runs in terror from a snarling household guardian-god seems like a small price to pay considering what happens to kids when the DCFS snatches them and puts them in foster care and drugs the spirit outta them with high doses of meth analogs. . . . .

my wife, however, is terrified at mere Ger Sheps and won't have such a self-respecting intelligent male in her house who can see the difference between a clan member and an intruder, so of course we have a Golden Retriever. . . . .

damn dog would wag her tail and kiss a pack of armed honchos playing the policestate game.

But, seriously, the beauty of local governance involving actual citizen participation, is that you will get a real variety of governance lifeforms. . . a sort of governmental biodiversity paradise. . . . where people can move to places they like and keep things the way they like them. . . . .

And governments would correspondingly morph into good house pets who would mind our rules. . . . .

 

[green]

How is all of this punished? Is the dog put down and that's all? Or is the owner of the dog charged with assault, etc, as if the owner had done the attacking?

 

[Stoked]

I had noticed your drift, but thought I had that answered with the elitists who train cops and swat teams and other mentally-compromised species to conduct routine depredations on the trailertrash they see us as. . . .

me, I want me my wolf/malemute honeybunch that will literally disarm anyone who frowns at me across my threshold. . . .

I'm sure my ghettomates like their rotts and fight dogs for much the same reason. The occasional kid that shoots himself or runs in terror from a snarling household guardian-god seems like a small price to pay considering what happens to kids when the DCFS snatches them and puts them in foster care and drugs the spirit outta them with high doses of meth analogs. . . . .

my wife, however, is terrified at mere Ger Sheps and won't have such a self-respecting intelligent male in her house who can see the difference between a clan member and an intruder, so of course we have a Golden Retriever. . . . .

damn dog would wag her tail and kiss a pack of armed honchos playing the policestate game.

But, seriously, the beauty of local governance involving actual citizen participation, is that you will get a real variety of governance lifeforms. . . a sort of governmental biodiversity paradise. . . . where people can move to places they like and keep things the way they like them. . . . .

And governments would correspondingly morph into good house pets who would mind our rules. . . . .

Smart woman. I don't like them either. Only dog breed I try to avoid. Personal history.

 

[LogGrad98]

That right there is where we differ. You think it is his way and I think it is his act. But it's all good. He has as much right to post what he wants as you and I do.

Lots of people here have acts, played out on the stage for their amusement or the amusement of others. I guess as long as it is all entertaining it's all good, right? But you shouldn't be shocked in the least that there are posters who do nothing but try to pull the wool over other's eyes, with the purpose of mocking them. You see it every day.

 

[Stoked]

Lots of people here have acts, played out on the stage for their amusement or the amusement of others. I guess as long as it is all entertaining it's all good, right? But you shouldn't be shocked in the least that there are posters who do nothing but try to pull the wool over other's eyes, with the purpose of mocking them. You see it every day.

Yes we do see it everyday. It is most certainly not just a Franklin kick. Though I would venture to say that he is by far the most consistent with it at the level he does it as. Others tend to be more mocking and joking.

 

[franklin]

Stoked, it's not my fault you're too thick-skulled to understand what anyone writes, or to convey your ideas in an understandable way. You'll notice I don't have an issue discussing ideas with the smarter posters on board (I'm not one of them), but apparently what I write is over your head so far that your envy has you on my balls over and over and over again.

You're an idiot & that's life. Deal with it, bitch.

 

[fishonjazz]

Stoked, it's not my fault you're too thick-skulled to understand what anyone writes, or to convey your ideas in an understandable way. You'll notice I don't have an issue discussing ideas with the smarter posters on board (I'm not one of them), but apparently what I write is over your head so far that your envy has you on my balls over and over and over again.

You're an idiot & that's life. Deal with it, bitch.

Frank, were you at the jazz game last night?