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Following potential 2014 draftees

Let me be clear, I think Favors has potential to be great defensively but he's been hugely disappointing this year.

Everyone has.

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Exactly.

- Burke is just a rookie and he's undersized.
- Hayward to me is not physical enough, he's average at best.
- Jefferson is at least physical, he's average
- Marv. tries hard and is intense, slightly above average
- Kanter is B-A-D, doesn't move his feet well, isn't active, doesn't want it enough

Favors isn't Dwight or KG, but considering that the team as a whole is below average, I think he's doing a pretty decent job.
 
ok I have to get in here some for my boy jello. blocks and steals only tell part of the truth on defense. some times players go for blocks and find themselves out of position to rebound giving easy put backs or offensive rebound as goes steals. please just don't throw those out there and say they are a good defender.

defense is about positioning and moving your feet, getting a hand in their face, proper rotations, and help defense. team defense might be more important then individual defense.

favors is not having a great year n defense but I blame that more on Corbin the favors. he pulls his bigs way to far out on the PnR and then other times the seems to be standing there. favors has great instincts but I HATE Corbin's defensive schemes.

kanter use to be decent at defense but after his injury he seems tentative. I will not say he is aweful just poorly coached. (see above) I think working with Karl in the summer will help kanter learn to use his legs more. kanter needs to get back into better shape again.

ok kkk jeffersuck was an aweful on defense. he frequently let his guy by him hoping he would block or bother their shot. he had no help defense and his team defense well the team had to make up for him.

defense is as much about desire as it is about defensive stances hand position. to be honest the best defenders are cheap artist. they know how to get in the heads of the people they are guarding.
 
Enes isn't the worst defensive player on this team, he gets too much credit for the lack of D... there's almost as many culprits as roster spots

heres how the team looks individually in DRtg, (collectively they are the 2nd worst at 110.8)

Rudy 104, Favors 106, Evans 108, Beidrins 109, Marvin 110, Hayward 110, Enes 111, Garrett 112, Burks 112, Jefferson 113, Rush 114, Burke 115, Lucas 115

keep in mind the range is much tighter on these stats in the NBA compared to college.under 100 is top 5, 100 or close to it is elite and 110 is bad (in college ORtg and DRtg have a range of 80-140 per 100 possessions. In the NBA Ben Wallace had the lowest DRtg in a season ever at 87.4 and Chris Paul is the all time leader in ORtg @122.)
 
ok I have to get in here some for my boy jello. blocks and steals only tell part of the truth on defense. some times players go for blocks and find themselves out of position to rebound giving easy put backs or offensive rebound as goes steals. please just don't throw those out there and say they are a good defender.

defense is about positioning and moving your feet, getting a hand in their face, proper rotations, and help defense. team defense might be more important then individual defense.

favors is not having a great year n defense but I blame that more on Corbin the favors. he pulls his bigs way to far out on the PnR and then other times the seems to be standing there. favors has great instincts but I HATE Corbin's defensive schemes.

kanter use to be decent at defense but after his injury he seems tentative. I will not say he is aweful just poorly coached. (see above) I think working with Karl in the summer will help kanter learn to use his legs more. kanter needs to get back into better shape again.

ok kkk jeffersuck was an aweful on defense. he frequently let his guy by him hoping he would block or bother their shot. he had no help defense and his team defense well the team had to make up for him.

defense is as much about desire as it is about defensive stances hand position. to be honest the best defenders are cheap artist. they know how to get in the heads of the people they are guarding.

Steals matter bro. They do.
 
Enes isn't the worst defensive player on this team, he gets too much credit for the lack of D... there's almost as many culprits as roster spots

heres how the team looks individually in DRtg, (collectively they are the 2nd worst at 110.8)

Rudy 104, Favors 106, Evans 108, Beidrins 109, Marvin 110, Hayward 110, Enes 111, Garrett 112, Burks 112, Jefferson 113, Rush 114, Burke 115, Lucas 115

keep in mind the range is much tighter on these stats in the NBA compared to college.under 100 is top 5, 100 or close to it is elite and 110 is bad (in college ORtg and DRtg have a range of 80-140 per 100 possessions. In the NBA Ben Wallace had the lowest DRtg in a season ever at 87.4 and Chris Paul is the all time leader in ORtg @122.)

You've gotta take into account who they're guarding as well.


Jefferson started every game for us this year at the 3 spot, he's asked every night to guard the opposing team's best wing and Hayward is left guarding the less athletic wing.


The likes of Rudy, Evans, Bierdrins and Enes come in as the 2nd unit most of the year (until recently for Kanter), so they're guarding 2nd rate players.


Unless you can adjust for that in your stats, it doesn't paint the complete picture, tbh.
 
Jefferson is the worst defensive player on the whole team imo
 
You've gotta take into account who they're guarding as well.


Jefferson started every game for us this year at the 3 spot, he's asked every night to guard the opposing team's best wing and Hayward is left guarding the less athletic wing.


The likes of Rudy, Evans, Bierdrins and Enes come in as the 2nd unit most of the year (until recently for Kanter), so they're guarding 2nd rate players.


Unless you can adjust for that in your stats, it doesn't paint the complete picture, tbh.

oops thought you were talking about al Jefferson.
 
You've gotta take into account who they're guarding as well.

Jefferson started every game for us this year at the 3 spot, he's asked every night to guard the opposing team's best wing and Hayward is left guarding the less athletic wing.

The likes of Rudy, Evans, Bierdrins and Enes come in as the 2nd unit most of the year (until recently for Kanter), so they're guarding 2nd rate players.

Unless you can adjust for that in your stats, it doesn't paint the complete picture, tbh.

pick out the high usage rate players then...everyone still SUCKS and measures out to be bottom of the league level... its not just Enes

Trey Burke has compiled .1 defensive win shares in 2000 minutes...

you nitpicked some of the guys not getting major minutes just look at Hayward, Trey, Alec, Kanter, Marvin and RJ my point remains, Enes isnt the worst on d and we have plenty of guys just as bad if not worse

all of their Dratings are 110 or worse aka on par with JR Smith
 
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You guys are ruining my favorite thread.

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You guys are ruining my favorite thread.

i do think its relevant, the individual DRtg... its warming me up to the idea of trading assets up for Jabari if we dont get lucky with the lottery

as much as has been made about Parkers deficiencies defensively, how much of a downgrade would he really be from either Jefferson at SF or Marvin at PF really.. at least he has the potential to get better

f056c1_479d4732fc8ea5d43c5ea817f35642de.jpg
 
i do think its relevant, the individual DRtg... its warming me up to the idea of trading assets up for Jabari if we dont get lucky with the lottery

as much as has been made about Parkers deficiencies defensively, how much of a downgrade would he really be from either Jefferson at SF or Marvin at PF really.. at least he has the potential to get better

So because Parker isn't worse defensively than a couple of borderline starters makes him valuable on that end for championship purposes?
I once respected your opinion. But these last days you talk so much ********. Like individual DRtg... DRtg isn't individual.

Consider yourself a deny wing defender and you share the court 100% with slow footed, xanax reaction time Kanter...
You have a game vs OKC and you don't give Durant a single touch. He's leaving the game 0-0 because it was your job.
But ****ing Kanter gives up lay up after lay up against Westbrook and Ibaka. Your team allows 110 points per 100 in the time that you share the floor with Kanter, you, the imaginary super saiyan GODMODE defender have the same DRtg as he does. Does that mean you didn't do your task or that you sucked? Just think about it.

Edith: I think I explored my feelings too strongly in this post. So I'd ask the reader to not take it personally but rather have it as a reflection of the statement.
It's simply meant indicative to how wrong I think this statement is. So instead of re-editing it to be perceived more polite I'll just leave it like it was and comment on it ;)
Edit 2: I can see someone making the argument for individual Defensive Rating. But the problem I see with that stat is even worse than team defensive rating:
It's heavily influenced by team defensive rating and you can only positively influence that by gambling, which by my understanding of defense is bad in 99% of the cases.
 
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pick out the high usage rate players then...everyone still SUCKS and measures out to be bottom of the league level... its not just Enes

Trey Burke has compiled .1 defensive win shares in 2000 minutes...

you nitpicked some of the guys not getting major minutes just look at Hayward, Trey, Alec, Kanter, Marvin and RJ my point remains, Enes isnt the worst on d and we have plenty of guys just as bad if not worse

all of their Dratings are 110 or worse aka on par with JR Smith

I'm I the only one that thinks favors is doing a fantastic Job and that kanter is doing decent. Wtf do you expect when our wing D blows this hard. Our wings always get beat and Kanter/Favors end up trying to guard two guys.
 
I'm I the only one that thinks favors is doing a fantastic Job and that kanter is doing decent. Wtf do you expect when our wing D blows this hard. Our wings always get beat and Kanter/Favors end up trying to guard two guys.

That's a good point. But I still think Kanter is way too slow with his reactions which is mainly because he doesn't understand the rotations. We'll see next year what his fate is.
 
i do think its relevant, the individual DRtg... its warming me up to the idea of trading assets up for Jabari if we dont get lucky with the lottery

as much as has been made about Parkers deficiencies defensively, how much of a downgrade would he really be from either Jefferson at SF or Marvin at PF really.. at least he has the potential to get better

f056c1_479d4732fc8ea5d43c5ea817f35642de.jpg

Did Durant just blow by Parker?
 
Yep, because that's how you can tell how good someone is a defense, bpg and spg.

Good work.

Sent from the JazzFanz app

It's not everything for sure, but historically I can't think of many below average defensive players who put those numbers up.
 
So because Parker isn't worse defensively than a couple of borderline starters makes him valuable on that end for championship purposes?
I once respected your opinion. But these last days you talk so much ********. Like individual DRtg... DRtg isn't individual.

Consider yourself a deny wing defender and you share the court 100% with slow footed, xanax reaction time Kanter...
You have a game vs OKC and you don't give Durant a single touch. He's leaving the game 0-0 because it was your job.
But ****ing Kanter gives up lay up after lay up against Westbrook and Ibaka. Your team allows 110 points per 100 in the time that you share the floor with Kanter, you, the imaginary super saiyan GODMODE defender have the same DRtg as he does. Does that mean you didn't do your task or that you sucked? Just think about it.

where did i say anything about value for championship purposes??? lol

and wow did you debunk DRtg... lol

your durant example shows that statistics meant for the course of a season, can be skewed to look ridiculous if you have 1 really good game and just use that as the sample size?? that example holds no weight over the course of season

you obviously have no idea how individual DRtg works, read up.

The core of the Defensive Rating calculation is the concept of the individual Defensive Stop. Stops take into account the instances of a player ending an opposing possession that are tracked in the boxscore (blocks, steals, and defensive rebounds), in addition to an estimate for the number of forced turnovers and forced misses by the player which aren't captured by steals and blocks.

The formula for Stops is:

Stops = Stops1 + Stops2
where:

Stops1 = STL + BLK * FMwt * (1 - 1.07 * DOR%) + DRB * (1 - FMwt)
FMwt = (DFG% * (1 - DOR%)) / (DFG% * (1 - DOR%) + (1 - DFG%) * DOR%)
DOR% = Opponent_ORB / (Opponent_ORB + Team_DRB)
DFG% = Opponent_FGM / Opponent_FGA
Stops2 = (((Opponent_FGA - Opponent_FGM - Team_BLK) / Team_MP) * FMwt * (1 - 1.07 * DOR%) + ((Opponent_TOV - Team_STL) / Team_MP)) * MP + (PF / Team_PF) * 0.4 * Opponent_FTA * (1 - (Opponent_FTM / Opponent_FTA))^2
Also necessary is the calculation of Stop%, which is the rate at which a player forces a defensive stop as a percentage of individual possessions faced (essentially the inverse of Floor%, but for defenders):

Stop% = (Stops * Opponent_MP) / (Team_Possessions * MP)
With those numbers in hand, individual Defensive Rating can be computed:

DRtg = Team_Defensive_Rating + 0.2 * (100 * D_Pts_per_ScPoss * (1 - Stop%) - Team_Defensive_Rating)
where:

Team_Defensive_Rating = 100 * (Opponent_PTS / Team_Possessions)
D_Pts_per_ScPoss = Opponent_PTS / (Opponent_FGM + (1 - (1 - (Opponent_FTM / Opponent_FTA))^2) * Opponent_FTA*0.4)
 
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