Darkwing Duck
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The social norms of American culture really has nothing to do with the amount of melanin content of the lineages that the majority of the individuals in that particular culture fall into...
On telling someone who the "real racist" is
- Thread starter One Brow
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The social norms of American culture really has nothing to do with the amount of melanin content of the lineages that the majority of the individuals in that particular culture fall into...
green
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One Brow, you're response to me was perfect and shows why I don't like blogs like his. They elicit responses from both sides that accomplish nothing.
cowhide brings up a really good point.
He said this:
"In reality there is no way white person could understand what black or native americans have been through in this country."
My response to this, is how true is this? This is the normal thought process, but is there a group of people who haven't been completely screwed over?
It was legal to kill Mormons and they were literally driven from the country.
Jewish people were led to slaughter houses
Native Americans were driven from their lands and lost everything
Chinese, Russians and other people in communist countries were murdered by the millions.
The Irish have had their problems in this country and even worse in Ireland.
So, I guess unless you are 100% British, and white, your people or heritage have gone through this at one time or another.
Would anyone disagree with that?
If not, the the real question is, what makes the AA experience so much tougher than everyone else's?
Is it a glass ceiling?
Maybe, but I'd argue that others have that same ceiling (for example, how often did you hear the Mitt shouldn't be President because he was Mormon? In the case of POTUS, AA's have a better shot at being President than Mormons do, due to racism/fear/discrimination, I'd also include women, GLTB's, etc. In women's case, Hillary was the run away favorite for the nomination, until a confident man came along. Then she was boat raced at the end).
Anyways, what makes the experience so different for AA's than everyone else?
cowhide brings up a really good point.
He said this:
"In reality there is no way white person could understand what black or native americans have been through in this country."
My response to this, is how true is this? This is the normal thought process, but is there a group of people who haven't been completely screwed over?
It was legal to kill Mormons and they were literally driven from the country.
Jewish people were led to slaughter houses
Native Americans were driven from their lands and lost everything
Chinese, Russians and other people in communist countries were murdered by the millions.
The Irish have had their problems in this country and even worse in Ireland.
So, I guess unless you are 100% British, and white, your people or heritage have gone through this at one time or another.
Would anyone disagree with that?
If not, the the real question is, what makes the AA experience so much tougher than everyone else's?
Is it a glass ceiling?
Maybe, but I'd argue that others have that same ceiling (for example, how often did you hear the Mitt shouldn't be President because he was Mormon? In the case of POTUS, AA's have a better shot at being President than Mormons do, due to racism/fear/discrimination, I'd also include women, GLTB's, etc. In women's case, Hillary was the run away favorite for the nomination, until a confident man came along. Then she was boat raced at the end).
Anyways, what makes the experience so different for AA's than everyone else?
I can agree with this. Racism with a capital R to me has always meant a condition of discrimination based within a power structure. I think bigoted and prejudice as adjectives should be used more to describe stupid ****ing people. Like, fat girl, what's her name, Paual Deen is probably a bigot but not a racist.
LogGrad98
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You are the king of assumptions aren't you? No one could be referring to anything other than your preconceived notions. Noted.
The social norms of American culture are directly derived from the social norms of European immigrants and their descendants.
Every group's discrimination experience is unique. Not being Mormon, I have no idea of what discrimination you face based on your religion. Not being an atheist, you don't have any idea what I face. I'm sure if we compared, we'd find commonalities and differences. Probably among the commonalities is that people think we're morally deficient and untrustworthy. However, neither of us wears our religion on our forehead. When I'm teaching, my class doesn't know my religion (nor my politics, for that matter). Many of your patients probably have no idea what religion you are, unless you advertise it in some way.
For the most part, black people and women do not have the option of passing as one of the in-group. However, while women get the benefit of the doubt regarding criminality (we have posters on this board who say civilization exists because of women), black people are treated as being morally deficient and untrustworthy. While many groups get this description, only for black people does it follow them everywhere, in almost every social situation. It is a constant weight upon them, that starts in schools (once when I was teaching in a high school, there was a fight between a black kid and a white kid; the black kid got the suspension) and follows them throughout their life. It is a definition forced on them by outsiders, with almost universal aspect.
And if you did hear that term being used that way you probably wouldn't recognize it and may call the person a racist anyways.
Why it's fine to be "proud" to be in any of those groups but not fine to be "proud" to be white is one of the points.
Why would you think white people that are not racists would never be proud to be white, and that only racists would be proud to be white when clearly it's just fine and normal for the majority of these other groups to be proud to be whatever they are?
I also think the main point behind the "proud to be (fill in the blank)" is drawing attention that you are different than other people.
You are in essence saying "I am different than you, and proud of it". This is not trying to bring people together, this is widening or creating a divide.
Instead of pointing out how and why people are different, the way to unify people is to focus on commonalities and strengthening those bonds so how we are the same will be stronger than how we are different.
So anyone can just watch tv or movie, read a book or article and understand any white person from their point of view but it is absolutely impossible for a white person to understand something from another pov because they are white. gotcha
Double standards are swell aren't they?
I watched Shaft and got the white point of view.
Question (Said in John McLaughlin voice): I ask you, has there ever been, in the history of the world, a pro-white group or organization that was NOT a racist organization? Meaning, has there ever been a pro-white group that was not at the expense of other races?
I think you have missed the point of Pride events. I don't know anyone who thinks having a dark skin color is, in and of itself, something they are proud of. It's not like you work hard to earn a particular skin color. "Black pride" is a proclamation that being black is as normal/good as being white. "Gay pride" is an expression that being gay is as good/normal as being straight. Why would you go around saying "being white is as good as being white"?
Of course, I'm sure that you and most white people agree intellectually that being black is as normal/good as being white, however, there is a huge difference in how people are treated. "Black pride" is also an expression of the demand to be treated as well as white people. Why you would go around saying white people should be treated as well as white people?
Finally, whatever you think should be fair, have you ever been to an event that was about "white pride"? Read any websites by them? Seen them in action? I think much too highly of you to believe you would associate with these people.
Black people are reminded every day that they are different from whites; they don't need events to emphasize it. The "pride" events are about recognizing their sameness with whites.
A movie? Some TV? A book? An article? No, of course not.
However, it's every 95% of movies, 98% of TV shows, 95% of books, and articles in every major publishing outfit. It's non-stop, cradle to grave. You're kidding yourself if you think people can't learn from that.
You like to think of yourself as a nice guy, who wants everyone to come together. Yet, how is that comment supposed to do anything but provoke and cause discord?
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
Very good. Now, were the social norms of European immigrants and their descendants begot due to those descendants melanin content?
If that's the point of the events, then they are failing miserably imo... but I also think there are many reasons for these organizations and events as varied as there are people members of these groups. If you demand from person A that they treat you as well as they treat person B, I don't think that will work too well because you've just given them another reason why not to do so that has nothing to do with race.
Can you not see that by constantly comparing other races to whites and making it very obvious that they are different and how, you are part of the problem even if in a different way than the people that actually have racism as a motivation.
If these events are about recognizing their sameness with whites by pointing out all the ways they are different, then they are failing miserably over and over and over.
Exaggerations first of all, but I'll give you that there are more white people in the USA, so therefore there will be more books written by white people, movies made by white people, tv shows make by white people. It's possible there are more white TV owners, and TV shows make money based on the number of viewers so.... All these people are trying to make money and cater to their audience.
I would also bet that there is a higher percentage of shows/movies/books that target the non-white audiences than the ratios of whites to non whites that live in the USA. (just a hunch)
Lastly on this, seriously???? Samuel L. Jackson is has been in every movie produced for the last 10 years, and every credit card commercial the last 5. How's that for an exaggeration.
I'm channeling my inner One Brow and asking the hard questions to get you to do some soul searching, and it's my job to point out the flaws in your thinking. I think too highly of you to let you go on this way without pointing out the hypocrisy of the stance.
Also, thank you for inferring that I am a nice guy who wants everyone to come together, yet am human and made a statement that hurt you.
Keep in mind that statements that hurt most likely have some truth to them.
It's not who you are, or what you believe, it's what you do and the difference that it makes to others' lives.
Not a racist. A moron? A tool? A dick bag? Absolutely. But not a racist.
Case in point.
Damn. Trout doesn't like me. What do I do with myself now?
LOL.. is there anyone he likes????
MoTown. Everyone likes her.
Bro, is this like your internet-alter-ego right?
I find it hard to believe you go to church/temple acting the way you do on JazzFanz.
LogGrad98
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I thought church was for the sinner. You can only go to church if you are perfect?