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Yesterday - Bundy Ranch

Triangle Bro, you wanna join my mulitia? I saw a jackbooted thug city worker cleaning up aluminum cans today. Those cans have been the livelyhood of a family of bums who've been collecting them since time immemorial. They clearly own the land and these constitution hatin' liberos are tyranny. Let's start a mulitia and take the power back!

You saw that the gubermint was bein mean and knew that to be in the middle really means to throw in with the underdog no matter what too huh? Lets vote all democrat and join the mulitia because to be in the middle really means to join the losing side no matter what. Lets move to the east coast and vote all repub!!!! Yea, let's make a difference!!!1
 
I'm willing to hear what PKM has to say. Maybe there is something new. But if he PMs them to me that is between me and him so you don't have to worry about it.

Good job, good guy.

Hey PKM, nobody is interested in what you have to say on this. Obviously. Please only PM Stoked because he's the only decent person on the board.
 
Good job, good guy.

Hey PKM, nobody is interested in what you have to say on this. Obviously. Please only PM Stoked because he's the only decent person on the board.

It wasn't a personal attack. But if that is how you want to see it by all means.
 
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Fixed seems like a guy who knows what he likes and what he dislikes. I can appreciate when a man or a woman grabs ahold of their sense of things and uses it like a hammer, and when that man or woman knows how to be a solid foe to the forces they feel antimony toward. In fact, as I age, I've been thinking that's exactly what it takes to be a man or woman. What would it be to reach maturity otherwise? I'm stuck right there, friends.

As for Fixed's much maligned style of presentation. Well, I don't suppose its too important for a man to have too strong of an opinion on the matter. But, for what it's worth, I know I've forgotten most the people I've had the pleasure of meeting, and he's done a fair shake to make me remember him for a while. Anyhow, internet performance is just something I'm becoming accustomed to. There are a few fellows here who are pretty entertaining. I'll appreciate them without naming them.
 
I'm a new presence here, and I fear the quick reprisals of many of you - there's a boisterous lot here, and I like you - but maybe I can share my two bits anyway. Many years ago my wife and I inhereted an un-improved plot of land out in the mountains about 50 miles northwest of Price. It was a raw place, bearing only a few scars from what appeared to be a brief attempt at homesteading there many years before us. Not too far down the hill, however, a family had been making a pretty good go at ranching. I didn't feel like it was my place to say anything, but they seemed to be pretty aggressive with the land, and I feared they may be misusing it by over-extending it. Anyway, it had always been my sense that a man should handle his land as he wished, so I never said anything about it. But, soon cheat grass started running up over the hill and onto my property - upsetting the subtle balance between things as I had come to understand them - out-competing other plants.

Anyway, through this whole experience I actually came to understand the follies of thinking about land as privately owned. What each man does affects others. What my neighbors' cows did, affected the system of life I was struggling to know. And life really is complex. I hope there are people who can be more fully dedicated to understanding its nuances than I could be, and to let us know about the good practices they discover.

Many years later, i looked up what these folks seemed to think about people like my neighbors, and it appears that it has long been known that his actions were deleterious. And it appears that most folks still don't know this. What this whole Nevada fiasco teaches me, is that we all have no good way of spreading the news.
 
I'm a new presence here, and I fear the quick reprisals of many of you - there's a boisterous lot here, and I like you - but maybe I can share my two bits anyway. Many years ago my wife and I inhereted an un-improved plot of land out in the mountains about 50 miles northwest of Price. It was a raw place, bearing only a few scars from what appeared to be a brief attempt at homesteading there many years before us. Not too far down the hill, however, a family had been making a pretty good go at ranching. I didn't feel like it was my place to say anything, but they seemed to be pretty aggressive with the land, and I feared they may be misusing it by over-extending it. Anyway, it had always been my sense that a man should handle his land as he wished, so I never said anything about it. But, soon cheat grass started running up over the hill and onto my property - upsetting the subtle balance between things as I had come to understand them - out-competing other plants.

Anyway, through this whole experience I actually came to understand the follies of thinking about land as privately owned. What each man does affects others. What my neighbors' cows did, affected the system of life I was struggling to know. And life really is complex. I hope there are people who can be more fully dedicated to understanding its nuances than I could be, and to let us know about the good practices they discover.

Many years later, i looked up what these folks seemed to think about people like my neighbors, and it appears that it has long been known that his actions were deleterious. And it appears that most folks still don't know this. What this whole Nevada fiasco teaches me, is that we all have no good way of spreading the news.

I'd disagree. We have excellent ways of spreading the news, better than ever before. With satelite and cable TV, internet and social media people can get the word out to hundres, thousand and millions wihtin minutes. The problem is not that we do not have the ability. It is that no one wants to hear the message. America has become a society that follows the drama and action. A fed stand off with militants, potential war in Ukraine and charges of racism capture the headlines and reports on soil preservation/management and other non exciting stories get over looked and ignored.
 
I'd disagree. We have excellent ways of spreading the news, better than ever before. With satelite and cable TV, internet and social media people can get the word out to hundres, thousand and millions wihtin minutes. The problem is not that we do not have the ability. It is that no one wants to hear the message. America has become a society that follows the drama and action. A fed stand off with militants, potential war in Ukraine and charges of racism capture the headlines and reports on soil preservation/management and other non exciting stories get over looked and ignored.

Stoked, I'm sorry if I wasn't specific enough at the tail-end of my post there. I meant to talk about the news of the deleterious environmental impact of ranching in the southwest. My neighbor didnt seem to know, and the folks there at Bundy ranch didn't seem to know. And before Fixed brought it up, you all didn't seem to know (or care). It seems to me that if we had a good way of spreading the news, then this wouldn't be the case. You're welcome to disagree, of course.

Anyway, as a younger man I participated in some local politics and I always got bewildered when national or international politics stormed in, and we lost track of what was important to understanding and caring for our place. It seems like that kind of bewilderment is happening at several spots in this story - even in this thread. I hope folks figure out how to care for one another, and for the land that cares for them.
 
I had so many quotes ready to respond to but ran out of energy after reading the last several pages. Exhausted.

Don't let Fixed affect how you post, PKM. I too am interested in your response regarding the original story before it veered off into the Fixed/NAOS soapbox.
 
Stoked, I'm sorry if I wasn't specific enough at the tail-end of my post there. I meant to talk about the news of the deleterious environmental impact of ranching in the southwest. My neighbor didnt seem to know, and the folks there at Bundy ranch didn't seem to know. And before Fixed brought it up, you all didn't seem to know (or care). It seems to me that if we had a good way of spreading the news, then this wouldn't be the case. You're welcome to disagree, of course.

Anyway, as a younger man I participated in some local politics and I always got bewildered when national or international politics stormed in, and we lost track of what was important to understanding and caring for our place. It seems like that kind of bewilderment is happening at several spots in this story - even in this thread. I hope folks figure out how to care for one another, and for the land that cares for them.

Hantlers knew. Please ask him.

Nope, I ate some turtle. Tastes like beef.

My conspiracy theory grows firmer.
 
What a whiner. After all of that you neg me for thinking bigb stating "fixed ruined it" was an ironic statement?

So sensitive. I won't even bother negging you back. pointless

I was honestly surprised to have not received a neg rep from him.


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How cool would it be if Senator Reid showed everyone he's a real human being with the best interest of his constituency by initiating a sit down with Cliven Bundy to a) ensure the people have his ear, and b) try in earnest to find a win-win solution?

Don't get me wrong, Bundy needs to understand plain and clear that he's absolutely in the wrong on the land dispute, and that he needs to put in place a solid contingency plan like a good business person would. There is always the possibility that this land is too vulnerable to EVER be grazed. But how cool would it be to show the American people that Washington isn't a bunch of detached SIG a-holes without souls?

This is a high enough profile case that a senator should step in and do his job. I don't even care if that means coming up with some tax-payer funded special grant for a pilot program with the goal of making co-habitation possible or taxing this solar plant or fracking or whatever to cover the costs. All that matters to me is that the people feel like protesting will get listening ears of D.C.
 
Hey Trick, can you have your connections get that to Harry a.s.a.p. and sell it as political expediency or whatever?
 
I have mixed feelings about it all. I don't want the Bundy's to be given an inch IF they don't deserve it. I didn't like the way the feds started this thing out, I loved the support the 'little man' got, but as I've said earlier, I want the correct and reaponsible outcome.

I don't want Americans to believe they can assemble with guns and whomever has the most firepower wins.. that's certainly not a sustainable or responsible enterprise (duh). I also don't want elected officials to feel they have power over the people.. rather than to serve the people.

That's the outcome I wanted for this. To have the feds acknowledge they handled it wrong up front and do an internal investigation and provide findings to the people as to what they were thinking/intending. To seek a way to allow both sides to win.. and if such a way isn't reasonably found, to take the land from Bundy (swiftly) with a detailed plan in place as to what is to be done with it. If nothing, fine.. but if there is an intended purpose, be transparent about it.

I mainly hope we learn something, grow from it, and be better for it.
 
I think it's refreshing to know that the people can still deter the government. After all, that's kind of the point of the whole "right to bear arms" thing, it's the ultimate check of the government. Good thing Lincoln is not the president.
 
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