Draft pick - moving up

[royzzz]

Would you do this?

Trade Hayward* to Boston** for draft picks plus somebody to make the trade work.
Then trade both own Jazz pick and Boston's for a higher pick to get either Wiggins or Parker.

* replace Hayward with Kanter or somebody, thus sort of breaking the existing core5
** replace Boston with whoever else in the top 3 to 5 or 6

 

[Darkwing Duck]

How do the Jazz trade a free agent?

 

[homeytennis]

How do the Jazz trade a free agent?

Sign and trade.

 

[default]

Sign and trade.

I don't believe the rules allow the Jazz to sign and trade a player (Hayward) before free agency opens in July which is after the draft.

 

[Zulu]

*Waiting for GVC to come crashing in to make people look dumb for not knowing the exact CBA rules*

 

[8]

Lol so you make the first trade assuming the second one will happen?

 

[franklin]

*Waiting for GVC to come crashing in to make people look dumb for not knowing the exact CBA rules*

Paging super-mod stoked. GVC needs your protection from Zulu.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Sign and trade.

Before the draft which is before the signing period which is before the time you can talk to free agents about contracts?

 

[Darkwing Duck]

*Waiting for GVC to come crashing in to make people look dumb for not knowing the exact CBA rules*

All you need to know is the chronology to know this is impossible.

 

[royzzz]

My bad. Let's simplify.

If Jazz is targeting Parker and using https://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2014/ for this exercise ...

Jazz trades Gordon to Boston; and Randle to Orlando; Jazz gets Parker from Magic
Celtics sends Exum to Orlando, Future draft pick + whoever to Utah; Celtics gets Gordon
Magic trades Parker to Utah; Magic gets Exum and Randle

Why?
Jazz gets Parker
Celtics gets Gordon
Magic gets two high picks to complement Oladipo, etc

 

[Darkwing Duck]

My bad. Let's simplify.

If Jazz is targeting Parker and using https://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2014/ for this exercise ...

Jazz trades Gordon to Boston; and Randle to Orlando; Jazz gets Parker from Magic
Celtics sends Exum to Orlando, Future draft pick + whoever to Utah; Celtics gets Gordon
Magic trades Parker to Utah; Magic gets Exum and Randle

Why?
Jazz gets Parker
Celtics gets Gordon
Magic gets two high picks to complement Oladipo, etc

Jazz can't trade Hayward unless it's a sign and trade during the offseason, which is AFTER the draft. The Jazz can't talk to Hayward about this possible move, so they have zero inclination that Hayward would accept this trade, so the Jazz would have to take the player Orlando wants with the hope that a) Hayward agrees to the trade, b) Boston and Hayward agree to terms, c) Orlando would back out after drafting their own player and meeting with him for two weeks, d) Boston makes the gamble that the Jazz wouldn't match an offer without the sign and trade, and e) NBA wouldn't see a deal as fishy and investigate it.

You CAN'T negotiate backwards. You're just leading yourself to disaster.

 

[Tony]

Jazz can't trade Hayward unless it's a sign and trade during the offseason, which is AFTER the draft. The Jazz can't talk to Hayward about this possible move, so they have zero inclination that Hayward would accept this trade, so the Jazz would have to take the player Orlando wants with the hope that a) Hayward agrees to the trade, b) Boston and Hayward agree to terms, c) Orlando would back out after drafting their own player and meeting with him for two weeks, d) Boston makes the gamble that the Jazz wouldn't match an offer without the sign and trade, and e) NBA wouldn't see a deal as fishy and investigate it.

You CAN'T negotiate backwards. You're just leading yourself to disaster.

I think he means Aaron Gordon. Either way, that's idea is stupid stupid and wouldn't happen in a bazillion years

 

[Darkwing Duck]

I think he means Aaron Gordon. Either way, that's idea is stupid stupid and wouldn't happen in a bazillion years

I thought that initially, too, but how do the Jazz trade Aaron Gordon AND Randle when Detroit has the pick that chooses Gordon on the Draftexpress mock draft he linked to?

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

When does a player actually become a Freeagent is it after the last game, after the playoffs, or when the Freeagency period starts?

 

[cowhide]

Would you do this?

Trade Hayward* to Boston** for draft picks plus somebody to make the trade work.
Then trade both own Jazz pick and Boston's for a higher pick to get either Wiggins or Parker.

* replace Hayward with Kanter or somebody, thus sort of breaking the existing core5
** replace Boston with whoever else in the top 3 to 5 or 6

The draft is before the free agency period which is the only time we could trade him. No I wouldn't do this because the Jazz might still have a shot at Wiggins or Parker. No one knows the draft order yet.

 

[Tony]

When does a player actually become a Freeagent is it after the last game, after the playoffs, or when the Freeagency period starts?

Free agency starts in July. I don't remember the exact date though.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Free agency starts in July. I don't remember the exact date though.

So does that mean Hayward isn't a free agent till after the draft, which means we could trade Hayward on draft day since free agency doesn't happen till sometime after the draft?


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[Stifle Tower]

Jazz can't trade Hayward unless it's a sign and trade during the offseason, which is AFTER the draft. The Jazz can't talk to Hayward about this possible move, so they have zero inclination that Hayward would accept this trade, so the Jazz would have to take the player Orlando wants with the hope that a) Hayward agrees to the trade, b) Boston and Hayward agree to terms, c) Orlando would back out after drafting their own player and meeting with him for two weeks, d) Boston makes the gamble that the Jazz wouldn't match an offer without the sign and trade, and e) NBA wouldn't see a deal as fishy and investigate it.

You CAN'T negotiate backwards. You're just leading yourself to disaster.

But you could make the trade AFTER the draft. Then what you are doing is trading the RIGHTS to the player(s) that have been drafted. This has been a not uncommon practice in the past. It also circumvents the rule about not trading your picks in consecutive seasons. IINM, it's also why many draft day trades are not announced until AFTER the second team has made their pick. What has happened is the RIGHTS to each player have been traded, not the actual draft positions.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

So does that mean Hayward isn't a free agent till after the draft, which means we could trade Hayward on draft day since free agency doesn't happen till sometime after the draft?


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I've been searching for the exact wording, but I believe you cannot trade a player becoming a free agent after the mid-season trade deadline of the final year of his contract. The player has to have service left.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

But you could make the trade AFTER the draft. Then what you are doing is trading the RIGHTS to the player(s) that have been drafted. This has been a not uncommon practice in the past. It also circumvents the rule about not trading your picks in consecutive seasons. IINM, it's also why many draft day trades are not announced until AFTER the second team has made their pick. What has happened is the RIGHTS to each player have been traded, not the actual draft positions.

Yes, but that still leads to problems a and b. The Jazz have NO guarantee that they could broker the deal, and they can't even speak to one of the three parties that have to sign off on the deal, or in this case, since there are three teams, one of the FOUR parties. You can't have this agreement in place and take a player someone else wants if there's no agreement with Hayward. Hayward then signs a max offer sheet for Phoenix. Now the Jazz can't make that deal.