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Yesterday - Bundy Ranch

Sirkickyass said:
Well that wasn't even a real job. That was just for funsies so I could tell my mom a funny story.
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Which makes it all the more impressive.

Fun little side story to that; that same buffoon has decided that we're pals somehow and he keeps posting on my Facebook As if nothing ever happened.
 
albundy4tds.jpg
 
Vegas already has a pipeline from the colorado at lake mead. They are one of the lower colorado river states. The upper states are required to release 7.5 million acre feet of water just below Lake Powell. Of the lower colorado states California has always been in the drivers seat. Nevada may only pull 300,000 acre feet plus they are credited for any treated water they release back into the colorado so they pull almost 600,000 acre feet. They cannot get any more from the colorado.

If my memory serves me correctly our Governor already tried to block the Snake valley pipeline and was only able to acquire minor concessions from the snwa. Good luck but if Herbert wasn't successful I can't imagine how you are going to win this fight. If the ranchers in southern Navada want to keep their lifestyle they would have to be successful blocking further development. Honestly the best they can probably hope for is favorable terms for a 100 year lease of their water.
 
The Thriller said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=768h3Tz4Qik

Reading about PKM and Hannity and a bunch of pissed off rednecks having an anti-federal guvmint orgie reminds me of this south park episode where a bunch of redneck whites get pissed over Mexicans taking their jobs.
They're all emotional, pissed, and completely irrational.

This whole situation just reeks of more redneck birther tea partiers pissed off at the guvmint (because, the guvmint is the root of all evil. Never ever can we ever blame a fellow white "conservative.") being exploited by a desperate (overrated) conservative commentator (Hannity).

No longer can they bitch and moan about Obamacare's signups. Benghazi and the IRS has lost steam. So this imaginary "crime" has gotta sustain the crazies until June. That's when the "next" Obama/federal guvmint crime against conservatives will come. The same people will be all up in arms while the rest of us just kinda watch on.

This one truly is hilarious to watch because it really does look like a bunch of 12 year olds playing "war" in their backyard.

It's funny how the law is the law and should never ever ever be broken for illegals and Occupy Wall Street. But it's not the law when it comes to Bundy.
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interesting. Good post with lots of good info.

Im comin around
 
PKM said:
I will not be covering the state sovereignty issue here.. again, because it's not my main issue with what is going on here.

Also, fwiw, I am a die-hard HATER of conspiracy theories, they piss me off, in fact.

Okay, where do I start... (this is all the research I've done to try to find out why this one rancher in the middle of nowhere became a big deal to the feds.. it smelled fishy to me)

Summary: Harry Reid (and others I will name as their 'moments' pop up in the story) has been utilizing law firms masquerading as environmentalist companies to rid the land of ranchers. The phony environmentalists file law suits (primarily against the BLM) to protect certain endangered species. BLM takes action and forces ranchers to reduce their herds to small remnants, to protect the turtle (as well as 400+ other endangered species).

Why would they do that?

In 1993 Reid gets Patricia Mulroy appointed as General Manager the Southern Utah Water Conservancy. Her job should be fairly obvious.. manage and GET water for Las Vegas and its continued growth. This is the year that things ratchet up BIG time with ranchers of Clark County that have vested water rights. As I'm sure most know.. water rights are a "use it or lose it" right.

Until 1993, Bundy had paid his grazing rights. In 1993 he stopped. Why? The BLM, under pressure from environmentalist groups, informed Bundy that to protect the tortoise he would have to reduce his herd down to 150 from 1000. This would make him lose his livelihood.. and also his water rights. So he refused. He also refused to acknowledge that the feds had the right to do that on what he believes should be state land.. but let's steer clear of there for now. It should be noted, however, that the Bundy family showed up in Bunkerville under the Lincoln introduced Homestead Act of 1862, in 1877. The federal government 'asked' these ranchers and farmers to go west.

This same action was being taken against rancher after rancher in Clark County.

It was a water grab.

Fast forward to 1998. He wants more, now Reid petitions Las Vegas planning committee to expand the size of Las Vegas by tens of thousands of acres. The committee isn't pleased, they know the water isn't available for anything like that. Mulroy states the only way she would back such an expansion is if they can build a pipeline to get water either from the Colorado River or from the great basin. Where would the money come from? Mulroy's plan was to sell off federal land with 10% of the proceeds going to the water conservancy district to build the pipeline.

There was a problem. The restrictions on selling federal land made it a bit cumbersome to do so. So Reid and Senator Ensign co-introduced a bill to remove the restrictions and were successful.

1998. This was the year the Bundy's were ordered off the BLM land they had been grazing for 150 years. By now, almost every rancher had lost their livelihoods (and most every single one were paying their grazing fees) due, in most part, to the forced reduction of their herd size.

This land that was once homesteaded and ranched but was lost due to the protection of the tortoise began being sold off and the coffers of the water conservancy district bolstered. How much? $300,000,000+

Some of this land was acquired by Whittemore to build the Coyote Springs Resort. The resort was fought by the EPA and some environmentalists, but they were now suddenly defeated and the same 'restrictions' that ran off the ranchers had now suddenly vanished. At the time the above mentioned resort was approved, it included 12 golf courses and 160,000 home sites. A far bit more intrusive than the cattle that were ran off the ground, I dare guess.

It was a land grab.


This is why I find the 2013 case overseen by Judge Richard C. Jones as relevant here. Judge Jones strongly proclaimed corruption and conspiracy from the highest offices of the NV government... the same faces involved in the Bundy scheme.

I'll let that simmer and come back with more. More detail, more proof. I only waited to tell this story (semi)publicly here until I was given the go ahead by someone advising me, that I trust.
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This post.

Good work pkm
 
Now I'm demanding the info about Trouts legal issues and kicky's help. Deets please.
 
My last semester of college I needed one class outside my major (business) to finish up my general ed requirements. I ended up in a water and soil conservation class. It ended up being one of the best classes I ever took at college. I remember the professor going off on Las Vegas about how unsustainable it is. He said that in the future something major would happen as they would need more and more water. Looks like he was right.
 
VINYLONE said:
Personal info? I would assume the dude is an officer of the court and would have no issues saying what kind of law he practices. He can PM me if he feels threatened? Are you representing him here on the boards?
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You asked for his specific firm. Soemthing that can easily be used to find his real life name, address...

Not suggesting you would do such a thing. Just amazes me when people ask for specific info from another poster. That's all.
 
So, at this point it looks like we've got most everything out there:

Rednecks
"Freedum"
Freedom
FREEDOM!!!!!1!!!11!!!!!!eleventy!!!1
Corruption
Politics
Military
Dead cows(steak)
Live Cows(rare steak)
Deseret Tortoise
Resorts
Water Rights
Homesteading
BLM sucks at job
Guns
Safety in Numbers
Government overreach
Intimidation

But I don't think anyone has proposed an answer that's going to fix anything. As it sits, there's some jerk getting away with breaking the law under perceived threats of gunfights.

Can we quit nitpicking and fighting and just ask the question "What do we do to fix this situation?"
 
ElRoach0 said:
So, at this point it looks like we've got most everything out there:

Rednecks
"Freedum"
Freedom
FREEDOM!!!!!1!!!11!!!!!!eleventy!!!1
Corruption
Politics
Military
Dead cows(steak)
Live Cows(rare steak)
Deseret Tortoise
Resorts
Water Rights
Homesteading
BLM sucks at job
Guns
Safety in Numbers
Government overreach
Intimidation

But I don't think anyone has proposed an answer that's going to fix anything. As it sits, there's some jerk getting away with breaking the law under perceived threats of gunfights.

Can we quit nitpicking and fighting and just ask the question "What do we do to fix this situation?"
Click to expand...

As history books read way back when I was a kid, the British "solution" to solving problems with backwoods hicks who didn't accept "law and order" was to ship in a bunch of redcoat soldiers, bureaucratic "occupation" administrators over every conceivable aspect of life, and throw a bunch of drinking parties for the elites. I'm sure nothing else will work, even today.
 
ElRoach0 said:
So, at this point it looks like we've got most everything out there:

Rednecks
"Freedum"
Freedom
FREEDOM!!!!!1!!!11!!!!!!eleventy!!!1
Corruption
Politics
Military
Dead cows(steak)
Live Cows(rare steak)
Deseret Tortoise
Resorts
Water Rights
Homesteading
BLM sucks at job
Guns
Safety in Numbers
Government overreach
Intimidation

But I don't think anyone has proposed an answer that's going to fix anything. As it sits, there's some jerk getting away with breaking the law under perceived threats of gunfights.

Can we quit nitpicking and fighting and just ask the question "What do we do to fix this situation?"
Click to expand...

At this point it is beyond the BLM's ability to handle/control short of violence and force. Right or wrong is irrelevant. The BLM goes in and this happens all over or worse, shots get fired.

At this point an intermediary is needed to sit down all sides and reach an agreement. Some neutral party with no vested interest in either side, perhaps a "team". Like the Lt. Governor from MI chosen at random), a prominent atty and a social/political icon or something...

It is that or either the gov. goes in and takes it by force or backs down and gives the Bundys the "win". That encourages further groups to repeat this scenario.
 
ElRoach0 said:
So, at this point it looks like we've got most everything out there:

Rednecks
"Freedum"
Freedom
FREEDOM!!!!!1!!!11!!!!!!eleventy!!!1
Corruption
Politics
Military
Dead cows(steak)
Live Cows(rare steak)
Deseret Tortoise
Resorts
Water Rights
Homesteading
BLM sucks at job
Guns
Safety in Numbers
Government overreach
Intimidation

But I don't think anyone has proposed an answer that's going to fix anything. As it sits, there's some jerk getting away with breaking the law under perceived threats of gunfights.

Can we quit nitpicking and fighting and just ask the question "What do we do to fix this situation?"
Click to expand...

I love the stand that Texas is taking with a somewhat similar situation along the Red River. Texas won't allow the feds to take the land.
I think the only solution to all this (if you are taking the side of the state/Bundy's) is to continue to stall the feds, keep gathering and feeding investigative-worthy information to media outlets, garner more public support/outcry, get these (as Judge Jones put it) top level government officials properly investigated for criminal conspiracy, and go to court with the proper legal team.

If that all happens, I will be satisfied as it will be the first actual fair trial. I can't see how it's fair due process to have a broke cattle rancher (who has defended himself in court) sue and be sued BY the federal government, IN a federal court room, and ruled on by a federal judge.. but I can live with the verdict if said rancher has some real help taking it on.
 
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/...the-law-becoming-a-hero-in-the-west.html?_r=0

He said he would continue holding a daily news conference; on Saturday, it drew one reporter and one photographer, so Mr. Bundy used the time to officiate at what was in effect a town meeting with supporters, discussing, in a long, loping discourse, the prevalence of abortion, the abuses of welfare and his views on race.

“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,” he said. Mr. Bundy recalled driving past a public-housing project in North Las Vegas, “and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids — and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch — they didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do.

Continue reading the main story
“And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”
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Good stuff. I am sure those quotes will earn him a lot of supporters. I can't wait to hear Hannity's thoughts on such pearls of wisdom.
 
dodo said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/...the-law-becoming-a-hero-in-the-west.html?_r=0



Good stuff. I am sure those quotes will earn him a lot of supporters. I can't wait to hear Hannity's thoughts on such pearls of wisdom.
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I was just reading that. What an idiot. I mean just...damn. What further amazes me is that no one told him that he should probably just stop talking. If you start with "let me tell you one more thing I know about the negro..." at that point the convo is over. Done, finished. That's it.

What a racist toolbag.
 
heyhey said:
Vegas already has a pipeline from the colorado at lake mead. They are one of the lower colorado river states. The upper states are required to release 7.5 million acre feet of water just below Lake Powell. Of the lower colorado states California has always been in the drivers seat. Nevada may only pull 300,000 acre feet plus they are credited for any treated water they release back into the colorado so they pull almost 600,000 acre feet. They cannot get any more from the colorado.

If my memory serves me correctly our Governor already tried to block the Snake valley pipeline and was only able to acquire minor concessions from the snwa. Good luck but if Herbert wasn't successful I can't imagine how you are going to win this fight. If the ranchers in southern Navada want to keep their lifestyle they would have to be successful blocking further development. Honestly the best they can probably hope for is favorable terms for a 100 year lease of their water.
Click to expand...

Responding to this in broad terms, I have been in meetings with SNWA officials where I stated the obvious solution: Desalination of ocean water piped into the desert. They stated they knew this, but they were going to drain the Basin first because "it's there".

I'm not much of a wild-eyed socialist, but the only people who have listened to me are the Lyndon LaRouche democrats, who also prefer to ignore me in favor of the Kennedy Administrations NAWAPA project for bringing fresh water down from Alaska or even Canada on a continental water redistribution plan that includes giving some artic water to Mexico.

I'd put a Colorado-river-sized pipeline into the Pacific off Camp Pendleton, using a field of wells drawing water from under the ocean floor sands, using the sands as pre-filter, and pump the water over the mountains in northern San Diego County, into the desert near the Salton Sea. I'd build a pond system to recover the concentrate brines, reclaiming the salt for industrial use and using solar evaporation vapors to saturate the air intakes into the multi-stage flash evaporation system which would be the second stage of water recovery, after the first stage RO treatment. Of course, the power station that supplies all the needed power should be nuclear, and designed with multiple redundant systems for cooling the core in any emergency event, and any wastes should be reclaimed and re-used throughout their lifetimes.

Some land should be opened up for new farms in the Southwest, with ag water now available for Arizona and California from this project, as well as municipal use. Las Vegas could perhaps have it's own local desal plant, as well as a bigger share of the actual Colorado river water, and all those investors banking on Harry Reid's opening of federal lands for Las Vegas developers would be trotting off to their banks with buckets of sales contracts and cash. Yes, Harry Reid would get even richer, with all of his buddies.

There would still be political competition for long-standing desert grazing users, and they'd probably still lose out in the battle for their way of life, and the big feedlot/meatpacker cartelists would probably open up some operations on that fragile desert tortoise land after the Bundys are run off, too. So we could still all eat beef if we wanted.

But hey, hey hey, the ZPG zealots. . . . Prince Philip and Maurice Strong. . . . will probably carry the day for a while yet, and growth and industry will be smeared in the propaganda mills of public education, the media, PBS, and Sesame Street to the point where the human herd will probably march on, into the population reduction shortages of food, medical care, useless foreign wars, and corporate-managed socialism until world population does indeed sink six sevenths of the herd into non-existence. . . . .
 
dodo said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/...the-law-becoming-a-hero-in-the-west.html?_r=0



Good stuff. I am sure those quotes will earn him a lot of supporters. I can't wait to hear Hannity's thoughts on such pearls of wisdom.
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Stoked said:
I was just reading that. What an idiot. I mean just...damn. What further amazes me is that no one told him that he should probably just stop talking. If you start with "let me tell you one more thing I know about the negro..." at that point the convo is over. Done, finished. That's it.

What a racist toolbag.
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I missed that one and hadn't seen it. He had some friends at his house one day that I was there (everyone was just sitting around working on a truck and random stuff) and two of them were black. So I don't know for sure whether he's a racist or just doesn't know the politically correct way of saying things... but either way, his comments are certainly indefensible and saddening.
 
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