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Hantlers explains why things are the way they are on reservations

One Brow

One Brow

Well-Known Member
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Hantlers said:
I said that Bundy was wrong…but that there was some truth in his statements, which if you read further, explicitly indicated what I thought of what happens when you just give people things. Color had nothing to do with it.
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The very notion of "welfare = black" is bound up in what you are saying. I have yet to hear of people complaining about all the white people on welfare. I hear people complaining about the lack of initiative shown on reservations, but never by the inhabitants of the Appalachian hills or the small Mississippi towns. You expect me to believe race pays no part in that?

Hantlers said:
Also, if you've never spent any time in a certain place, then you are going to have a difficult time understanding why things are the way they are.
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I agree. I'm not trying to explain what happens on reservations; I'll leave that to the people that grow up on them. However, I am completely sure that they are human, and have all the usual human drives, including those for security and the respect of others. The notion that they, as a group, would be happy in poverty is contrary to their basic human nature.

If you keep on giving people things, it gives them less incentive to go out and do something for themselves. I believe the Indian Reservations are a prime example of this.
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Please, detail for us your reasoning supporting this argument. Tell us, from your vast experience, why reservations are such a great example of this.
 
One Brow said:
The very notion of "welfare = black" is bound up in what you are saying. I have yet to hear of people complaining about all the white people on welfare. I hear people complaining about the lack of initiative shown on reservations, but never by the inhabitants of the Appalachian hills or the small Mississippi towns . You expect me to believe race pays no part in that?



I agree. I'm not trying to explain what happens on reservations; I'll leave that to the people that grow up on them. However, I am completely sure that they are human, and have all the usual human drives, including those for security and the respect of others. The notion that they, as a group, would be happy in poverty is contrary to their basic human nature.



Please, detail for us your reasoning supporting this argument. Tell us, from your vast experience, why reservations are such a great example of this.
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Then you are not listening. I am not getting into the Indian Reservations argument as I am not informed enough to make a stand. But this notion that welfare criticisms are all racist shots (as indicated by you comment "I have yet to hear of people complaining about all the white people on welfare") is foolish and shows you are either not listening or hearing only what you want to hear.
 
Stoked said:
Then you are not listening.
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Perhaps not. Can you point to a few threads on this forum about white people on welfare, and how it takes away their initiative? A couple of columnists on the subject? News media?
 
What I've gotten out of this thread so far is that when you complain about people on welfare, you have to segregate into complaining about black people on welfare and white people on welfare equally.

Separate but equal, yo.
 
One Brow said:
Perhaps not. Can you point to a few threads on this forum about white people on welfare, and how it takes away their initiative? A couple of columnists on the subject? News media?
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That right there is your problem. The vast majority of those comments are "people on welfare". Your assumption is that it is all code for black people. Some of it is sure, but hardly all.

You are trying to hard to read into things and often find things that are simply not there.
 
First off OB, I don't care what the color of a person is. There are some cases where welfare is helpful, and some cases where it is not.

If you could bring up any examples of where I'm deciding whether welfare is good or bad based on the color of the people that are receiving it, then props to you, but I can guarantee it that you won't find it. You want to make everything about race, when all I want to talk about is the act. The race of people is not the issue, but you seem to want it to be. If you want to actually look at what I said, I believe that what I said is that when people are given things, they have less incentive for working towards them, and an example was native americans on reservations. Nowhere did I mention color…if there were other reservations in the states, I would have used them, but as far as I know, there aren't any. I don't think it matters which race of people would be on a reservation…hell, it could be white people, black people, asians, indians, same result would happen.

Anyways, you wanted to tell me what really happens on reservations, but you've never been there to see it? C'mon…

As for respect for others and need for security, you should look up the numbers on alcoholism, drug use, incest and rape on the reservations. The NYT's had an article where they quoted the Justice Department as saying that 1 in 3 native women are raped over their lifetime. Where's the want for security there? I refuse to believe that number is so high because of skin color, so then what is the reason?
 
Why is OneBrow so intent on what colour somebody's skin is? We are all One Race, IMO, the Human Race. Of course I am sensitive to different groups of people having different cultures and it is important to respect different cultures. But when we're talking about treating people with equality please remember we area all human at the end of the day. So please stop this non-sense about welfare = black bull crap. Not everyone thinks the way you do, please just accept that fact for a start.
 
Stoked said:
That right there is your problem. The vast majority of those comments are "people on welfare". Your assumption is that it is all code for black people. Some of it is sure, but hardly all.
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As I said, when people talk about welfare, they talk about inner cities, not rural West Virginia. Just because the association is not overt does not mean it is absent.
 
Hantlers said:
You want to make everything about race, when all I want to talk about is the act.
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So, talk about the act, specifically on reservations, which is the example you gave. That's why I created this thread.

Hantlers said:
The race of people is not the issue, but you seem to want it to be.
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In the US, only white people think their race is not an issue in their lives, with a handful of exceptions.

Hantlers said:
If you want to actually look at what I said, I believe that what I said is that when people are given things, they have less incentive for working towards them, and an example was native americans on reservations.
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Go on. I'm waiting.

Hantlers said:
Anyways, you wanted to tell me what really happens on reservations, but you've never been there to see it? C'mon…
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I never made such an attempt, but merely said your version was based in deep ignorance. Feel free to show where I'm wrong. Any time.

Hantlers said:
As for respect for others and need for security, you should look up the numbers on alcoholism, drug use, incest and rape on the reservations. The NYT's had an article where they quoted the Justice Department as saying that 1 in 3 native women are raped over their lifetime. Where's the want for security there? I refuse to believe that number is so high because of skin color, so then what is the reason?
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What numbers should I be comparing these to? Other insulated communities? Given that by some counts, 1 in 4 college women have been raped by the time they leave college, the number 1 in 3 over a life time may not be higher. A lot of the counting depends upon what you call rape.

Where your evidence that drug and alcohol usage is higher in Native American communities than in other communities, say in rural Appalachia?

https://www.arc.gov/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=113
 
One Brow said:
Because people are treated differently on this basis, every day.
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So do something about it, instead on harping on the fact to divide us, do or say something that will bring us together. You can keep pointing fingers all day long, but that ain't gonna solve the issue. It will only create angst and animosity. Why don't you point to examples where good race relations/integration/progress are being made? I've been on JazzFanz for a long time and to be honest with you, I'm sick and tired of your racist sob stories that you bring on here weekly. Bring some positive stories for a change.
 
One Brow said:
As I said, when people talk about welfare, they talk about inner cities, not rural West Virginia. Just because the association is not overt does not mean it is absent.
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Ugh. Not all welfare talk is as specific as you try to paint it. If that is truly what you hear then it is different then what I hear. Perhaps you should look at those you are talking to.
 
Hotttnickkk said:
So do something about it, instead on harping on the fact to divide us, do or say something that will bring us together. You can keep pointing fingers all day long, but that ain't gonna solve the issue. It will only create angst and animosity. Why don't you point to examples where good race relations/integration/progress are being made? I've been on JazzFanz for a long time and to be honest with you, I'm sick and tired of your racist sob stories that you bring on here weekly. Bring some positive stories for a change.
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Would rep if app would allow
 
In OB's world, any time somebody is negative towards something, it's because of closeted (or open) racism. What a way to view the world.
 
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