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PKM said:
Pretty much agree with all of that.
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Thanks. . . . for bringing me into some consideration of the territory.

Probably, One Brow will find all this just too far off his base of empirical science, evidence, and substantial credibility. . . . Gotta love someone who can just stick to his guns about what he's willing to believe, asking for evidence every step of the way. . . .

some of us might look pretty "unhinged". . . . I suppose. . . .
 
babe said:
Thanks. . . . for bringing me into some consideration of the territory.

Probably, One Brow will find all this just too far off his base of empirical science, evidence, and substantial credibility. . . . Gotta love someone who can just stick to his guns about what he's willing to believe, asking for evidence every step of the way. . . .

some of us might look pretty "unhinged". . . . I suppose. . . .
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One short story I can tell without it becoming a tl;dr (at least by some).

This was pretty far into my experience and to date I could simply look around my house while out of my body and see/remember things that I was convinced I wouldn't have paid attention to in my normal conscious state. I would awaken and go check out some small detail to confirm. But that was all earlier on.

Later, I could leave my body and 'go' places and 'see' people. Once I left my body and went to my dad's house. He was about 500 miles away and it was around 2am. When I arrived he was, to my surprise, awake. He was sitting on the fireplace reading that days newspaper. I tried in earnest to make him know I was there, but to no avail. I then peeked over his shoulder to see what article he was reading.

I went back to my body, woke up, and called him immediately.. it was now only about 15 minutes later.
I asked if he was awake. Yes, was his answer. I asked if he had been up reading the paper. He said, yes.. how did you know that (he knew how). I then told him what article he was reading while I was 'there' and he was speechless.

I have a lot more stories, but they get weirder and other-dimension that defies our comprehension and in ways impossible to adequately communicate (and obviously no way of confirming as in the story above).
 
Consciousness: What is it?

So my little excursion into the topic is actually going back to my discussion with my cousin, and his philosophical if not mathematical extension of Einstein's theory of relativity, wherein he posits that our "consciousness" of the universe represents a corollary principle of physics. . . . that our minds or consciousness have a scientific, demonstrable, and mathematical inter-relation with other things and other observers. We are "conscious" because we are fundamentally "connected" with physical reality. . . .and every other specific "reality".

So I'm looking for "evidence" of further aspects of "our" existence than spatial dimensions, particle constituents having mass, conventional physical energy (like electric charge, potential energy in a gravitational field, E=mv2, chemical bonding, and such), and biological "life" in terms of ordinary demonstrable scientific measures we can obtain with our tools. . .

what is "real", that is beyond our demonstrative powers? What kind of validity do our senses carry when we can't measure it with our equipment/tools?

Lots of times, I've somehow "known" things not in the physical evidence.
 
PKM.... How were you were getting there? What was the procedure? Because I've not tried to make that happen, but I've felt like that was going to happen when mediating while lying in bed at night trying to fall asleep. It started happening almost every night where I felt like I was battling to keep my spirit grounded. Basically I would get up at that point and watch TV because it scared me, but I'm pretty sure it would have happened had I hung in for a few more seconds. Then I stopped meditating at night.
 
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PKM said:
One short story I can tell without it becoming a tl;dr (at least by some).

This was pretty far into my experience and to date I could simply look around my house while out of my body and see/remember things that I was convinced I wouldn't have paid attention to in my normal conscious state. I would awaken and go check out some small detail to confirm. But that was all earlier on.

Later, I could leave my body and 'go' places and 'see' people. Once I left my body and went to my dad's house. He was about 500 miles away and it was around 2am. When I arrived he was, to my surprise, awake. He was sitting on the fireplace reading that days newspaper. I tried in earnest to make him know I was there, but to no avail. I then peeked over his shoulder to see what article he was reading.

I went back to my body, woke up, and called him immediately.. it was now only about 15 minutes later.
I asked if he was awake. Yes, was his answer. I asked if he had been up reading the paper. He said, yes.. how did you know that (he knew how). I then told him what article he was reading while I was 'there' and he was speechless.

I have a lot more stories, but they get weirder and other-dimension that defies our comprehension and in ways impossible to adequately communicate (and obviously no way of confirming as in the story above).
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and of course, this is why some folks throw out "anecdotal" evidence because it cannot be independently substantiated. . . .as fantastic as it is.

Not to say I don't believe you, but the problem of how to proceed on a scientific basis in this discussion is given by Ambrose Bierce:

IMPROBABILITY, n.

His tale he told with a solemn face And a tender, melancholy grace. Improbable ’twas, no doubt, When you came to think it out, But the fascinated crowd Their deep surprise avowed And all with a single voice averred ’Twas the most amazing thing they’d heard — All save one who spake never a word, But sat as mum As if deaf and dumb, Serene, indifferent and unstirred. Then all the others turned to him And scrutinized him limb from limb — Scanned him alive; But he seemed to thrive And tranquiler grow each minute, As if there were nothing in it. “What! what!” cried one, “are you not amazed At what our friend has told?” He raised Soberly then his eyes and gazed In a natural way And proceeded to say, As he crossed his feet on the mantel-shelf: “O no — not at all; I’m a liar myself.”
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Duck Rodgers said:
PKM.... How were you were getting there? What was the procedure? Because I've not tried to make that happen, but I've felt like that was going to happen when mediating while lying in bed at night trying to fall asleep. It started happening almost every night where I felt like I was battling to keep my spirit grounded. Basically I would get up at that point and watch TV because it scared me. Then I stopped doing it at night.
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I don't feel comfortable explaining the process I learned to 'make' it happen, but I will say a few things in general.

When 'traveling' I could see the landscape as I was moving, albeit at what seemed like just short of light speed. Meaning, I could barely make out houses and other physical landmarks but was moving so quickly they were barely discernible. Also, I was at times moving through them rather than above them.

I will also say that I could feel something like an electrical current pulsing in my body.. a sound that can only be described as a vibration, just prior to it 'happening.'
 
babe said:
and of course, this is why some folks throw out "anecdotal" evidence because it cannot be independently substantiated. . . .as fantastic as it is.

Not to say I don't believe you, but the problem of how to proceed on a scientific basis in this discussion is given by Ambrose Bierce:
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If I were still doing it I know I could prove it. Maybe not that I was 'there'.. but I could prove out a way of 'knowing.' I'm just not sure how one could scientifically prove the methodology of knowing.
 
Remote viewing with the artist Ingo Swann: neuropsychological profile, electroencephalographic correlates, magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), and possible mechanisms.

In the present study, the artist Ingo Swann, who helped develop the process of remote viewing (awareness of distant objects or places without employing normal senses), was exposed during a single setting of 30 min. to specific patterns of circumcerebral magnetic fields that significantly altered his subjective experiences. Several times during subsequent days, he was asked to sit in a quiet chamber and to sketch and to describe verbally distant stimuli (pictures or places) beyond his normal senses. The proportions of unusual 7-Hz spike and slow wave activity over the occipital lobes per trial were moderately correlated (rho=.50) with the ratings of accuracy between these distal, hidden stimuli and his responses. A neuropsychological assessment and Magnetic Resonance Imaging indicated a different structural and functional organization within the parieto-occipital region of the subject's right hemisphere from organizations typically noted. The results suggest that this type of paranormal phenomenon, often dismissed as methodological artifact or accepted as proofs of spiritual existence, is correlated with neurophysiological processes and physical events. Remote viewing may be enhanced by complex experimentally generated magnetic fields designed to interact with the neuromagnetic "binding factor" of consciousness.

- Michael Persinger, Laurentian University
 
PointGod_AlecBurks said:
Remote viewing with the artist Ingo Swann: neuropsychological profile, electroencephalographic correlates, magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), and possible mechanisms.

In the present study, the artist Ingo Swann, who helped develop the process of remote viewing (awareness of distant objects or places without employing normal senses), was exposed during a single setting of 30 min. to specific patterns of circumcerebral magnetic fields that significantly altered his subjective experiences. Several times during subsequent days, he was asked to sit in a quiet chamber and to sketch and to describe verbally distant stimuli (pictures or places) beyond his normal senses. The proportions of unusual 7-Hz spike and slow wave activity over the occipital lobes per trial were moderately correlated (rho=.50) with the ratings of accuracy between these distal, hidden stimuli and his responses. A neuropsychological assessment and Magnetic Resonance Imaging indicated a different structural and functional organization within the parieto-occipital region of the subject's right hemisphere from organizations typically noted. The results suggest that this type of paranormal phenomenon, often dismissed as methodological artifact or accepted as proofs of spiritual existence, is correlated with neurophysiological processes and physical events. Remote viewing may be enhanced by complex experimentally generated magnetic fields designed to interact with the neuromagnetic "binding factor" of consciousness.

- Michael Persinger, Laurentian University
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Was surprised to see you here. Welcome.
 
PointGod_AlecBurks said:
Remote viewing with the artist Ingo Swann: neuropsychological profile, electroencephalographic correlates, magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), and possible mechanisms.

In the present study, the artist Ingo Swann, who helped develop the process of remote viewing (awareness of distant objects or places without employing normal senses), was exposed during a single setting of 30 min. to specific patterns of circumcerebral magnetic fields that significantly altered his subjective experiences. Several times during subsequent days, he was asked to sit in a quiet chamber and to sketch and to describe verbally distant stimuli (pictures or places) beyond his normal senses. The proportions of unusual 7-Hz spike and slow wave activity over the occipital lobes per trial were moderately correlated (rho=.50) with the ratings of accuracy between these distal, hidden stimuli and his responses. A neuropsychological assessment and Magnetic Resonance Imaging indicated a different structural and functional organization within the parieto-occipital region of the subject's right hemisphere from organizations typically noted. The results suggest that this type of paranormal phenomenon, often dismissed as methodological artifact or accepted as proofs of spiritual existence, is correlated with neurophysiological processes and physical events. Remote viewing may be enhanced by complex experimentally generated magnetic fields designed to interact with the neuromagnetic "binding factor" of consciousness.

- Michael Persinger, Laurentian University
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sounds like a scientific report. maybe something to go on in further investigations. . . .
 
PKM said:
I don't feel comfortable explaining the process I learned to 'make' it happen, but I will say a few things in general.

When 'traveling' I could see the landscape as I was moving, albeit at what seemed like just short of light speed. Meaning, I could barely make out houses and other physical landmarks but was moving so quickly they were barely discernible. Also, I was at times moving through them rather than above them.

I will also say that I could feel something like an electrical current pulsing in my body.. a sound that can only be described as a vibration, just prior to it 'happening.'
Click to expand...

this would, to me, suggest an interface, at least, with "scientific" demonstrability. . . . a la. . . . measurements like PG's account reports. . . .
 
babe said:
I know "anecdotal" is considered an indictment of sorts, but unless we accept evidence like this, we live in a logically-closed loop:

https://www.facebook.com/Anita.Moorjani

Here is a woman with a story that transcends every "religious" line of belief. . . . says her cancer was healed as a result of a decision, a choice, made while in a coma. The story involves her near-death experience while in a hospital, during which she was able to view her body from above and hear the things being said about her in another room, and to see her brother in India making arrangements to fly to Hong Kong, and know he hoped to get there before she died. . . her condition was considered hopeless and doctors expected her to die within hours.

After 30 hours she opened her eyes and began telling her family where she had been and relating to them how she knew the admitting doctor and what had been said on her arrival. .. . while she was in a coma. She was kept in the hospital under observation while tests were done which proved negative for cancer, though her diagnosis of cancer had been amply documented by tests before she went into her coma, as her cancer diagnosis had been well-established.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/anit...like-to-die-by-anita-moorjani/733506046694396
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Without reading the details (since I'm not on Facebook), I'm just going to point out that being in a coma means that other people can't perceive you reacting, not that you can't perceive them; and that people who make a decision to not succumb to cancer, but die of it, normally don't have their testimonies recorded in this manner.
 
babe said:
Thanks. . . . for bringing me into some consideration of the territory.

Probably, One Brow will find all this just too far off his base of empirical science, evidence, and substantial credibility. . . . Gotta love someone who can just stick to his guns about what he's willing to believe, asking for evidence every step of the way. . . .

some of us might look pretty "unhinged". . . . I suppose. . . .
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If you can really perform astral projection, I can think of a dozen ways it could be verified objectively. However, I'm not going to tell you what you have and have not experienced.

No one seems particularly unhinged; just normal human stuff.
 
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