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***Official new head coach search thread*** (merged)

Core4 said:
No coaches have been beating down our doors. Kerr wasn't waiting on us, SVG didn't consider us. I doubt the #5 vs. the #3 makes any kind of difference. A superstar coach isn't going to land in Utah. Whether it's Boylen, Longabardi, Messina or whomever, they'll agree to coach for a reasonable contract.
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Don't kid yourself. It'll make a difference. It might not be the deciding factor for a guy like Boylen or Longabardi - but I'd wager it could sour Messina or Blatt on coming here.

So, no, it won't impact whether the Jazz get a superstar coach, but it should impact whether they get a coach who's somewhat in demand. Boylen would have been an option, even if the Jazz dropped, because he doesn't have many options to make the leap to the head job. Messina and Blatt, though, can probably wait things out a bit now. I'd be surprised if either two are really interested in the Jazz.

My guess is it's still Boylen. Jazz could have, though, made the case intriguing for someone like Fred Hoiberg or Lionel Hollins, had they moved into the top-two. With the fifth pick, neither is going to give Utah any serious look - and who can blame 'em?
 
Sean said:
Don't kid yourself. It'll make a difference. It might not be the deciding factor for a guy like Boylen or Longabardi - but I'd wager it could sour Messina or Blatt on coming here.

So, no, it won't impact whether the Jazz get a superstar coach, but it should impact whether they get a coach who's somewhat in demand. Boylen would have been an option, even if the Jazz dropped, because he doesn't have many options to make the leap to the head job. Messina and Blatt, though, can probably wait things out a bit now. I'd be surprised if either two are really interested in the Jazz.

My guess is it's still Boylen. Jazz could have, though, made the case intriguing for someone like Fred Hoiberg or Lionel Hollins, had they moved into the top-two. With the fifth pick, neither is going to give Utah any serious look - and who can blame 'em?
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You really think Messina or Blatt getting the chance to double or possibly triple their annual salary would turn the Jazz down because they have the #5 vs #3 pick? I don't.
 
colton said:
You really think Messina or Blatt getting the chance to double or possibly triple their annual salary would turn the Jazz down because they have the #5 vs #3 pick? I don't.
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jazz are not the only nba team looking for a new coach though
 
colton said:
You really think Messina or Blatt getting the chance to double or possibly triple their annual salary would turn the Jazz down because they have the #5 vs #3 pick? I don't.
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Agreed. #5 is still decent. If we had gotten #7 - #8, I think it's when it starts to have an effect.
 
colton said:
You really think Messina or Blatt getting the chance to double or possibly triple their annual salary would turn the Jazz down because they have the #5 vs #3 pick? I don't.
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Absolutely. That chance just doesn't begin and end with Utah. It may force 'em to wait another season overseas, but a market will open up that offers them a better opportunity than anything the Jazz have right now. Let's be honest, even with a top-three pick, Utah is still one of the worst NBA markets out there. If you're a coach, that does factor into your decision because, at the end of the day, you're going to sink and swim based on the talent you can draw to the team. That's the beauty of the NBA draft - outside rare instances where a player refuses, whomever you draft is going to be playing - it's not really all that optional.

Plus, no one actually knows if Blatt or Messina are even interested in the Jazz job. We hear Utah might be interested in both - but there is nothing, beyond that butchered quote by Messina, that proves this isn't just all one-sided.

Every little boost helps - and grabbing a top-two pick almost assures the team of grabbing a game-changing player that has the workings to be a superstar. That's not to say you can't get it with the 5th pick, but it's not near the sure-thing, it would seem, as Parker and Wiggins. That right there is going to be of interest to any potential coach who's eyeing a team that has, since 2010, pretty much been mediocre at its best.
 
You have a 26-win team with solid, but not spectacular talent. Adding not a superstar, but an all-star quality player at #5. And another solid backup at #23. GM has said the Jazz have a MAX slot available even after giving a substantial raise to Hayward. He restates today that the team has $30M in salary space.

26 wins: ABSOLUTELY zero risk. Just about anyone out there could get the team to 35 wins. And there's the upside of possible COY if you can take the team to 45+ with the picks, internal improvement and likely a FA addition at SF. You get your foot in the door, sign a 3-yr deal, and step away into a better job after that if you want. All you've got to do is improve a team that is adding talent and gaining experience. If you can't do that, you don't deserve to be a head coach.
 
Core4 said:
You have a 26-win team with solid, but not spectacular talent. Adding not a superstar, but an all-star quality player at #5. And another solid backup at #23. GM has said the Jazz have a MAX slot available even after giving a substantial raise to Hayward. He restates today that the team has $30M in salary space.

26 wins: ABSOLUTELY zero risk. Just about anyone out there could get the team to 35 wins. And there's the upside of possible COY if you can take the team to 45+ with the picks, internal improvement and likely a FA addition at SF. You get your foot in the door, sign a 3-yr deal, and step away into a better job after that if you want. All you've got to do is improve a team that is adding talent and gaining experience. If you can't do that, you don't deserve to be a head coach.
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You pretty much just reinforced my point - a coach coming in here is going to have to overachieve in his first couple seasons just to get the ball rolling - especially in the competitive west. What you just outlined is a franchise with uncertain prospects and, at least right now, a fairly low ceiling. It's going to take, most likely multiple years to establish anything of note - and that's without having the luxury of a superstar. Frankly, I'd be begging to take the Cleveland job right about now. Utah? They'll get a decent assistant, probably Boylen, but could have gotten someone better. Then we've got to hope Boylen actually works out (I don't think he will).
 
Core4 said:
He restates today that the team has $30M in salary space.
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That's only true if the Jazz renounce all their own free agents, including Gordo and Marvin, and release the players on unguaranteed contracts.


Projected Salary Cap: $63.2mm

6 guaranteed contracts + 6 minimum roster charges: $30.2mm = $33mm cap space
6 guaranteed contracts + Gordo's cap hold + 5 minimum roster charges: $38.3mm = 24.9mm cap space
6 guaranteed contracts + Marv's cap hold + 5 minimum roster charges: $40.9mm = $22.3mm cap space
6 guaranteed contracts + Gordo and Marv's cap holds + 4 minimum roster charges: $49.1mm = $14.1mm cap space


Guaranteed contracts: Favors, Kanter, Burke, Burks, Evans, Gobert = $27,149,862
Gordo's cap hold: $8,630,458
Marv's cap hold: $11,250,000
Minimum roster charge: $507,336

Unguaranteed contracts (not included above): Lucas, Garrett, Thomas, Clark
 
GVC said:
That's only true if the Jazz renounce all their own free agents, including Gordo and Marvin, and release the players on unguaranteed contracts.


Projected Salary Cap: $63.2mm

6 guaranteed contracts + 6 minimum roster charges: $30.2mm = $33mm cap space
6 guaranteed contracts + Gordo's cap hold + 5 minimum roster charges: $38.3mm = 24.9mm cap space
6 guaranteed contracts + Marv's cap hold + 5 minimum roster charges: $40.9mm = $22.3mm cap space
6 guaranteed contracts + Gordo and Marv's cap holds + 4 minimum roster charges: $49.1mm = $14.1mm cap space


Guaranteed contracts: Favors, Kanter, Burke, Burks, Evans, Gobert = $27,149,862
Gordo's cap hold: $8,630,458
Marv's cap hold: $11,250,000
Minimum roster charge: $507,336

Unguaranteed contracts (not included above): Lucas, Garrett, Thomas, Clark
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Marv for 11 mil?
 
Sean said:
Absolutely. That chance just doesn't begin and end with Utah. It may force 'em to wait another season overseas, but a market will open up that offers them a better opportunity than anything the Jazz have right now. Let's be honest, even with a top-three pick, Utah is still one of the worst NBA markets out there. If you're a coach, that does factor into your decision because, at the end of the day, you're going to sink and swim based on the talent you can draw to the team. That's the beauty of the NBA draft - outside rare instances where a player refuses, whomever you draft is going to be playing - it's not really all that optional.

Plus, no one actually knows if Blatt or Messina are even interested in the Jazz job. We hear Utah might be interested in both - but there is nothing, beyond that butchered quote by Messina, that proves this isn't just all one-sided.

Every little boost helps - and grabbing a top-two pick almost assures the team of grabbing a game-changing player that has the workings to be a superstar. That's not to say you can't get it with the 5th pick, but it's not near the sure-thing, it would seem, as Parker and Wiggins. That right there is going to be of interest to any potential coach who's eyeing a team that has, since 2010, pretty much been mediocre at its best.
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While much of what you said has merit, the other side of the coin is that coaches want to coach and any job in the NBA is a desirable place. Yes it would have been better if the Jazz had got a higher pick but with that higher pick comes more pressure. While NY and LA are more glamorous cities than SLC, the Jazz job comes with less pressure.Right now the Jazz have the best situation for a new coach between NY and LA, both of those franchises are a mess financially and roster wise.

Guys like Messina and even more so with Blatt, the market is less of an issue since they have coached on smaller markets in an inferior league (yes top notch European basketball but not the NBA). Blatt is intriguing because he hasn't always had the best talent and so coming to Utah won't be as big as a shock if he doesn't have the #1-#3 pick. I worry that Messina might be more swayed by the bright lights of NY or the sunny weather of LA and I do worry about Blatt taking the NY job (if offered) because he is from the NY/NJ area. However, right now the Jazz job is a way better situation to start your NBA career. Do either of those guys want to go into situations where they might struggle for two or three years having to deal with the enormous pressure that comes being in the major media markets. What happens if both fail and people say they can't make it in the NBA.

I think both of these guys know enough people in the NBA to get a fair understanding of the situation that awaits them in Utah. I think the Utah job is appealing because of the financial and roster flexibility and the team's history of stability. It is a well run organization and gets a lot of fan support. There isn't as big as a negative stereotype about Utah in Europe as there is in the USA. I would think a coach knowing how badly the team and city wants a championship would jump at an opportunity to be the first European coach to give the NBA a shot. I think Utah is actually a better place unless the new coach is only concerned about money and being in the media. If the new coach was an opportunity to win, Utah certainly is just as good as any place in the NBA. I would think coaching is more about having a chance to win than where you live (unless family considerations are the deciding factors). Why not Utah?
 
Sean said:
You pretty much just reinforced my point - a coach coming in here is going to have to overachieve in his first couple seasons just to get the ball rolling - especially in the competitive west. What you just outlined is a franchise with uncertain prospects and, at least right now, a fairly low ceiling. It's going to take, most likely multiple years to establish anything of note - and that's without having the luxury of a superstar. Frankly, I'd be begging to take the Cleveland job right about now. Utah? They'll get a decent assistant, probably Boylen, but could have gotten someone better. Then we've got to hope Boylen actually works out (I don't think he will).
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As far as coaching, how appealing are the NY or LA jobs right now? Both franchises are a disaster right now, In LA, they've fired two coaches in a year, their roster is a mess, Kobe is 36 years old with A LOT of mileage on his body coming off two major injuries, Gasol is most likely out the door, Nash is done and won't take a buyout and the rest of the bunch are all wanting for contracts. Entitled laker fans will not allow a new coach two or three years to get the team back on track.

NY - horrible owner, impatient fan base, Carmelo might leave, Amare is half the player he was in Phoenix, JR Smith is a tool. Chandler is declining and gets hurt, the rest of the roster very average. No pick this year. Financially the roster is set for this year unless Phil is really a miracle GM.

Minnesota - horribly run franchise, worse weather than Utah and their best player wants out.
Cleveland - horribly run franchise, they are talking about trading the #1 pick and hoping Lebron comes back. Fat chance of that happening because even with their current roster it is a mess. They have a chance of losing Kyrie Irving too if they don't get better. They haven't won since Lebron was there and they had a few good years during MJ years. Need I remind you that franchises can't trade 1st round picks in consecutive years, Why? Cleveland is why. The weather there is worse than Utah. However, Fans would enshrine into the HOF any coach if he were able to win there.

Utah is by far the best place to be if you are talking about a stable coaching opportunity. Utah probably has the least amount of pressure and the most potential right now.
 
Sean said:
You pretty much just reinforced my point - a coach coming in here is going to have to overachieve in his first couple seasons just to get the ball rolling - especially in the competitive west. What you just outlined is a franchise with uncertain prospects and, at least right now, a fairly low ceiling. It's going to take, most likely multiple years to establish anything of note - and that's without having the luxury of a superstar. Frankly, I'd be begging to take the Cleveland job right about now. Utah? They'll get a decent assistant, probably Boylen, but could have gotten someone better. Then we've got to hope Boylen actually works out (I don't think he will).
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Overachieve? That wasn't my point at all. I'm saying we could get to 35 wins even if the coach were Corbin. This is EASILY a .500 team AT WORST within two years. And the coach will have a resume showing he took a 26-win team to 42 wins in such a short time span. Cleveland? They have Irving, will have Wiggins? Or Parker? Or Embiid? The fact no one knows who they may pick shows how many holes they have in their roster.

Care to place a wager of 5 reps? Utah will have a better record than Cleveland next season.

And BTW cowhide, great post. None of those franchises are appealing destinations. Lakers are interviewing Dunleavy and Fisher is the front runner in New York. Yep, sure more appealing than Utah if that's the best they can do!
 
GVC said:
That's only true if the Jazz renounce all their own free agents, including Gordo and Marvin, and release the players on unguaranteed contracts.


Projected Salary Cap: $63.2mm

6 guaranteed contracts + 6 minimum roster charges: $30.2mm = $33mm cap space
6 guaranteed contracts + Gordo's cap hold + 5 minimum roster charges: $38.3mm = 24.9mm cap space
6 guaranteed contracts + Marv's cap hold + 5 minimum roster charges: $40.9mm = $22.3mm cap space
6 guaranteed contracts + Gordo and Marv's cap holds + 4 minimum roster charges: $49.1mm = $14.1mm cap space


Guaranteed contracts: Favors, Kanter, Burke, Burks, Evans, Gobert = $27,149,862
Gordo's cap hold: $8,630,458
Marv's cap hold: $11,250,000
Minimum roster charge: $507,336

Unguaranteed contracts (not included above): Lucas, Garrett, Thomas, Clark
Click to expand...

Exactly. Which is why he's stated a couple of times that Hayward could get a substantial raise and the Jazz would still have a MAX contract slot available.
I think you realistically look at the roster as the 6 contracts + cap hold for Gordon + five roster charges ($24.9M cap space). Unguaranteed contracts are of no consequence as none of those players is essential for next season. Marvin, if he were offered a contract, would be for about half of that. But that would come at the end of free agency when DL has exhausted all other avenues of improving the roster.
 
Core4 said:
Marvin, if he were offered a contract, would be for about half of that. But that would come at the end of free agency when DL has exhausted all other avenues of improving the roster.
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If the Jazz don't renounce him before signing him, that $11.25mm would count against the Jazz's cap until they re-sign him. If that's the plan, and the Jazz plan on re-signing Gordo, the Jazz would only have the $14.1mm in cap space. IF the Jazz have other players they want whose first year salaries exceed that number, they'll have to either re-sign Marvin earlier/at the same time OR renounce him.
 
GVC said:
If the Jazz don't renounce him before signing him, that $11.25mm would count against the Jazz's cap until they re-sign him. If that's the plan, and the Jazz plan on re-signing Gordo, the Jazz would only have the $14.1mm in cap space. IF the Jazz have other players they want whose first year salaries exceed that number, they'll have to either re-sign Marvin earlier/at the same time OR renounce him.
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Yes, I understand. What I was trying to get at is that Marvin is likely a fall-back plan. If they find a better FA, they'll renounce Marvin and their unguaranteed players as needed. If not, there's no reason to do anything, especially with the unguaranteed contracts; those could be used in trades.
 
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