Science vs. Creationism

[VINYLONE]

It is just sad that you can't answer simple questions I asked about your views.

Oh. The irony.


This electronic post has been constructed, arranged and transmitted via an Apple branded communication device using the Tapatalk application.

 

[PearlWatson]

There ain't nothing ironic about it.

I've answered his questions. I can't help it if he still demands his student answers are correct over a teacher's answers.

I don't so much care about any other answer beside how he views "design overall." That is separate from any of his text book details.

 

[MVP]

everyone has already made up their mind about me.

You know I still like you despite you being creationist. Hard to kill old friendship over personal beliefs.

 

[PearlWatson]

You know I still like you despite you being creationist. Hard to kill old friendship over personal beliefs.

Of course.

I'm a God believer but I'm not yet a creationist in the way you view them.

I'm still in the I don't know how it happened, but it wasn't successive accidents, camp.

 

[MVP]

Of course.

I'm a God believer but I'm not yet a creationist in the way you view them.

I'm still in the I don't know how it happened, but it wasn't successive accidents, camp.

So you are kind of religious agnostic of some kind.
See, I am opposite, I am in a camp - I do not know how it happened but from all evidence I have studied it was not God ( at least not the one described in all human written religious books like Bible, Quran, Book or Mormon, etc).

 

[carolinajazz]

....so you think the viewpoint and opinion of these 4 clowns/pukes who, although having made a ton of money, have had multiple divorces, entered various rehabilitation centers to overcome various addictions....and HAVE NOT overcome those addictions yet....and continue to struggle with any human relationships they try to have or develop....over the reasonable and simple explanations on life and it's origins from the highest authority in the Universe......our Creator, of which I was merely quoting or sharing with you guys and gals?

 

[PearlWatson]

So you are kind of religious agnostic of some kind.
See, I am opposite, I am in a camp - I do not know how it happened but from all evidence I have studied it was not God ( at least not the one described in all human written religious books like Bible, Quran, Book or Mormon, etc).

I'm Christian, but not all Christians are Creationists. There is differences among Christians on how the Creation happened.

I'm unable to merge random and purposeful like some are able to. I still haven't figured out how they do that because they won't explain it to me.

 

[♪alt13]

....so you think the viewpoint and opinion of these 4 clowns/pukes who, although having made a ton of money, have had multiple divorces, entered various rehabilitation centers to overcome various addictions....and HAVE NOT overcome those addictions yet....and continue to struggle with any human relationships they try to have or develop....over the reasonable and simple explanations on life and it's origins from the highest authority in the Universe......our Creator, of which I was merely quoting or sharing with you guys and gals?

what?

You read way too far into that.

I was just laughing at you.

 

[LogGrad98]

I'm Christian, but not all Christians are Creationists. There is differences among Christians on how the Creation happened.

I'm unable to merge random and purposeful like some are able to. I still haven't figured out how they do that because they won't explain it to me.

I think it goes something like this: God understands all natural laws perfectly, so much so that he can manipulate them and predict them in ways we cannot fathom due to our imperfect understanding of the natural world. Therefore, it is nothing for him to introduce a small change, say start life off in a puddle of water somewhere, then simply sit back and let nature take its course, tweaking here and there, modifying DNA, introducing new variation often on a very small scale to achieve his ultimate purpose: create man and the world he lives in. Even though God has the ability to do what we would call circumventing natural laws, many creationists believe he is merely making use of those natural laws in a far more advanced manner than we can grasp, something akin to, but on a much grander scale than, our use of electronics compared to early man's use of animal skins and rubbing sticks to make fire.

 

[MVP]

what?

You read way too far into that.

I was just laughing at you.

At least he did not tried to deny laughing baby's viewpoint and opinion

 

[♪alt13]

I think it goes something like this: God understands all natural laws perfectly, so much so that he can manipulate them and predict them in ways we cannot fathom due to our imperfect understanding of the natural world. Therefore, it is nothing for him to introduce a small change, say start life off in a puddle of water somewhere, then simply sit back and let nature take its course, tweaking here and there, modifying DNA, introducing new variation often on a very small scale to achieve his ultimate purpose: create man and the world he lives in. Even though God has the ability to do what we would call circumventing natural laws, many creationists believe he is merely making use of those natural laws in a far more advanced manner than we can grasp, something akin to, but on a much grander scale than, our use of electronics compared to early man's use of animal skins and rubbing sticks to make fire.

I think this highlights the difference between someone who is religious and someone that is a creationist.

Religious person

Do you believe in god? yes
Do you think evolution happened? yes guided or started by god

Creationist

Do you believe in god? yes
Do you believe evolution happened? no

The looney birds have hijacked the word creationist and taken it to an extreme. It's not really a big deal though because religious people still have the word well religious.

 

[One Brow]

I'm unable to merge random and purposeful like some are able to. I still haven't figured out how they do that because they won't explain it to me.

I won't go as far as purposeful, but definitely guided in selection by the surrounding environment. Before the late 20th century, the merging of randomness and selection was the basic breeding principle for every domesticated animal and plant. It's how we got from wolves to dogs, or teosinte to corn, in only a few thousand years. The crops of a thousand years ago were much less productive than the crops of a hundred years ago. Yet, you seem to think there are arbitrary limits on this same process over tens of millions of years.

When you can justify setting those arbitrary limits biologically, then you will have a case for design.

 

[PearlWatson]

I think it goes something like this: God understands all natural laws perfectly, so much so that he can manipulate them and predict them in ways we cannot fathom due to our imperfect understanding of the natural world. Therefore, it is nothing for him to introduce a small change, say start life off in a puddle of water somewhere, then simply sit back and let nature take its course, tweaking here and there, modifying DNA, introducing new variation often on a very small scale to achieve his ultimate purpose: create man and the world he lives in. Even though God has the ability to do what we would call circumventing natural laws, many creationists believe he is merely making use of those natural laws in a far more advanced manner than we can grasp, something akin to, but on a much grander scale than, our use of electronics compared to early man's use of animal skins and rubbing sticks to make fire.

The question concerns the mechanism or the "natural law" involved. How are new attributes and systems added if they weren't there to begin with?

Can a molecule hold enough information/code in reserve to accumulate all the attributes we possess (eyes, heart, nose, mouth, teeth, bones, legs, feet, sex organs, etc.) over time?

If not where do all of these attributes (new information) come from?

The problem with Darwinism is that, when they explain where the attributes we posses come from, they start with a fish who already has most of the systems and attributes we see in ourselves. They have been woefully inadequate in explaining how a molecule progressed its way into a fish...but that's really the heart of the problem with their story.

ID says that an intelligent force is involved to progress from molecule to the man...which sounds like your stance.

Creationism says there is no progressive "tweaks" involved since the kinds were simply designed separate from each other.

So do you, loggrad, think that a fish was "tweaked" into a frog, or that a frog was a separate design?
Do you think an ape was "tweaked" into a human or a human is a separate design?

 

[PearlWatson]

what?

You read way too far into that.

I was just laughing at you.

His reading was very interesting though.

 

[PearlWatson]

I think this highlights the difference between someone who is religious and someone that is a creationist.

Religious person

Do you believe in god? yes
Do you think evolution happened? yes guided or started by god

Creationist

Do you believe in god? yes
Do you believe evolution happened? no

The looney birds have hijacked the word creationist and taken it to an extreme. It's not really a big deal though because religious people still have the word well religious.

It depends on what you mean by "evolution."

 

[♪alt13]

It depends on what you mean by "evolution."

If you think people lived along side dinosaurs.... you might be a creationist.

If you think jonah actually lived inside a whale for the better part of a week... you might be a creationist.(I think it was Jonah)

If you think the earth is thousands of years old... you might be a creationist.

If you think two of each "kind" spent forty days on a wooden boat at altitudes of 23,000+ feet.... you might be a creationist.

 

[carolinajazz]

If you think people lived along side dinosaurs.... you might be a creationist.

.....not true at all! Where did you come up with that idea? Dinosaurs were long gone before the creation of Adam and Eve! If some "Creationist" have drawn the conclusion that Dinosaurs co-existed with the first human couple, they didn't get that from the Genesis account! Dinosaurs were created on the 5th day and/or possibly the beginning of the 6th day. Those creative days were not 24 hours long but an un-determinable amount of time!


When the dinosaurs had fulfilled their purpose, God ended their life. But the Bible is silent on how he did that or when. We can be sure that dinosaurs were created by God for a purpose, even if we do not fully understand that purpose at this time. They were no mistake, no product of evolution. That they suddenly appear in the fossil record unconnected to any fossil ancestors, and also disappear without leaving connecting fossil links, is evidence against the view that such animals gradually evolved over millions of years of time. Thus, the fossil record does not support the evolution theory. Instead, it harmonizes with the Bible’s view of creative acts of God.

If you think jonah actually lived inside a whale for the better part of a week... you might be a creationist.(I think it was Jonah)

The whale shark is the largest of living fish, averaging some 25*feet [7.5*m] in length. However, some can reach nearly twice that size. Its mouth can be up to four feet [1.4*m] wide, easily capable of swallowing a man. But far from being a ferocious predator of other large sea creatures, this gentle giant feeds on tiny plankton and small fish. “The whale shark’s unusual digestive anatomy,” reported National Geographic magazine, “lends itself to Jonah stories,” referring to the Biblical incident about the prophet Jonah being swallowed by a great fish. Whale sharks have “a nonviolent way of getting rid of large objects of dubious digestibility they swallow accidentally.”—Jonah 1:17; 2:10.

“The whale shark’s unusual digestive anatomy lends itself to Jonah stories. It is easy to imagine yourself being inadvertently sucked into a whale shark’s mouth, which is huge .*.*. The cavernous mouth of even a small adult whale shark could easily accommodate a pair of Jonahs.”

The whale shark feeds on tiny plankton and krill, which “wash down through the esophagus into the immense and elastic banquet hall that is the cardiac stomach.” Yet, how could anyone get out? National Geographic says: “Sharks have a nonviolent way of getting rid of large objects of dubious digestibility they swallow .*.*. A shark can slowly empty its cardiac stomach by turning it inside out and pushing it through the mouth. .*.*. So, you could come gliding out on a mucus-covered carpet, slimier but perhaps wiser for the experience.”

Because of its large head and gullet, the sperm whale is capable of swallowing a man. Although whales are rare in the Mediterranean, whalers once docked at Joppa.

If you think the earth is thousands of years old... you might be a creationist.

The opening words of Genesis tell us: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” (Genesis 1:1) Do these words of Genesis say that this happened about ten thousand years ago? No, it gives no time period. “The beginning” could therefore have been billions of years ago.

However, right at “the beginning,” the Bible puts an intelligent being, the Creator, in control of the creative work. Although many scientists are uncomfortable with this idea, it harmonizes with the conclusions of astronomers that the universe did have a beginning, that it is very well ordered, and that it is governed by definite laws. An orderly arrangement based on law can come only from an intelligent mind. While science has explained many of these laws to us, Genesis alone introduces us to the Lawgiver.

The account in Genesis then goes on to outline the famous six “days” of creation. These days, though, were not the time during which the material of the earth and the universe was created. That had already happened “in the beginning.” The six days of creation were, rather, the periods of time during which the primordial, inhospitable earth was slowly made fit for habitation.

Was each one of those six days a literal 24-hour day? That is not what Genesis says. The word “day” in the Hebrew language (the language in which Genesis was written) can mean long periods of time, even thousands, perhaps millions of years.


If you think two of each "kind" spent forty days on a wooden boat at altitudes of 23,000+ feet.... you might be a creationist.

It is true that encyclopedias refer to over a million species of animals. But Noah was instructed to preserve only representatives of every “kind” of land animal and flying creature. Some investigators have said that just 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles could have produced the great variety of species of these creatures that are known today. The ark had about 40,000 cu m (1,400,000 cu ft) of usable space—ample for the passenger list

....were did you get the "altitudes of 23,000+ feet"???

 

[carolinajazz]

If you think people lived along side dinosaurs.... you might be a creationist.

.....not true at all! Where did you come up with that idea? Dinosaurs were long gone before the creation of Adam and Eve! If some "Creationist" have drawn the conclusion that Dinosaurs co-existed with the first human couple, they didn't get that from the Genesis account! Dinosaurs were created on the 5th day and/or possibly the beginning of the 6th day. Those creative days were not 24 hours long but an un-determinable amount of time!


When the dinosaurs had fulfilled their purpose, God ended their life. But the Bible is silent on how he did that or when. We can be sure that dinosaurs were created by God for a purpose, even if we do not fully understand that purpose at this time. They were no mistake, no product of evolution. That they suddenly appear in the fossil record unconnected to any fossil ancestors, and also disappear without leaving connecting fossil links, is evidence against the view that such animals gradually evolved over millions of years of time. Thus, the fossil record does not support the evolution theory. Instead, it harmonizes with the Bible’s view of creative acts of God.

If you think jonah actually lived inside a whale for the better part of a week... you might be a creationist.(I think it was Jonah)

The whale shark is the largest of living fish, averaging some 25*feet [7.5*m] in length. However, some can reach nearly twice that size. Its mouth can be up to four feet [1.4*m] wide, easily capable of swallowing a man. But far from being a ferocious predator of other large sea creatures, this gentle giant feeds on tiny plankton and small fish. “The whale shark’s unusual digestive anatomy,” reported National Geographic magazine, “lends itself to Jonah stories,” referring to the Biblical incident about the prophet Jonah being swallowed by a great fish. Whale sharks have “a nonviolent way of getting rid of large objects of dubious digestibility they swallow accidentally.”—Jonah 1:17; 2:10.

“The whale shark’s unusual digestive anatomy lends itself to Jonah stories. It is easy to imagine yourself being inadvertently sucked into a whale shark’s mouth, which is huge .*.*. The cavernous mouth of even a small adult whale shark could easily accommodate a pair of Jonahs.”

The whale shark feeds on tiny plankton and krill, which “wash down through the esophagus into the immense and elastic banquet hall that is the cardiac stomach.” Yet, how could anyone get out? National Geographic says: “Sharks have a nonviolent way of getting rid of large objects of dubious digestibility they swallow .*.*. A shark can slowly empty its cardiac stomach by turning it inside out and pushing it through the mouth. .*.*. So, you could come gliding out on a mucus-covered carpet, slimier but perhaps wiser for the experience.”

Because of its large head and gullet, the sperm whale is capable of swallowing a man. Although whales are rare in the Mediterranean, whalers once docked at Joppa.

If you think the earth is thousands of years old... you might be a creationist.

The opening words of Genesis tell us: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” (Genesis 1:1) Do these words of Genesis say that this happened about ten thousand years ago? No, it gives no time period. “The beginning” could therefore have been billions of years ago.

However, right at “the beginning,” the Bible puts an intelligent being, the Creator, in control of the creative work. Although many scientists are uncomfortable with this idea, it harmonizes with the conclusions of astronomers that the universe did have a beginning, that it is very well ordered, and that it is governed by definite laws. An orderly arrangement based on law can come only from an intelligent mind. While science has explained many of these laws to us, Genesis alone introduces us to the Lawgiver.

The account in Genesis then goes on to outline the famous six “days” of creation. These days, though, were not the time during which the material of the earth and the universe was created. That had already happened “in the beginning.” The six days of creation were, rather, the periods of time during which the primordial, inhospitable earth was slowly made fit for habitation.

Was each one of those six days a literal 24-hour day? That is not what Genesis says. The word “day” in the Hebrew language (the language in which Genesis was written) can mean long periods of time, even thousands, perhaps millions of years.


If you think two of each "kind" spent forty days on a wooden boat at altitudes of 23,000+ feet.... you might be a creationist.

It is true that encyclopedias refer to over a million species of animals. But Noah was instructed to preserve only representatives of every “kind” of land animal and flying creature. Some investigators have said that just 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles could have produced the great variety of species of these creatures that are known today. The ark had about 40,000 cu m (1,400,000 cu ft) of usable space—ample for the passenger list

....were did you get the "altitudes of 23,000+ feet"???

 

[carolinajazz]

If you think people lived along side dinosaurs.... you might be a creationist.

.....not true at all! Where did you come up with that idea? Dinosaurs were long gone before the creation of Adam and Eve! If some "Creationist" have drawn the conclusion that Dinosaurs co-existed with the first human couple, they didn't get that from the Genesis account! Dinosaurs were created on the 5th day and/or possibly the beginning of the 6th day. Those creative days were not 24 hours long but an un-determinable amount of time!


When the dinosaurs had fulfilled their purpose, God ended their life. But the Bible is silent on how he did that or when. We can be sure that dinosaurs were created by God for a purpose, even if we do not fully understand that purpose at this time. They were no mistake, no product of evolution. That they suddenly appear in the fossil record unconnected to any fossil ancestors, and also disappear without leaving connecting fossil links, is evidence against the view that such animals gradually evolved over millions of years of time. Thus, the fossil record does not support the evolution theory. Instead, it harmonizes with the Bible’s view of creative acts of God.

If you think jonah actually lived inside a whale for the better part of a week... you might be a creationist.(I think it was Jonah)

The whale shark is the largest of living fish, averaging some 25*feet [7.5*m] in length. However, some can reach nearly twice that size. Its mouth can be up to four feet [1.4*m] wide, easily capable of swallowing a man. But far from being a ferocious predator of other large sea creatures, this gentle giant feeds on tiny plankton and small fish. “The whale shark’s unusual digestive anatomy,” reported National Geographic magazine, “lends itself to Jonah stories,” referring to the Biblical incident about the prophet Jonah being swallowed by a great fish. Whale sharks have “a nonviolent way of getting rid of large objects of dubious digestibility they swallow accidentally.”—Jonah 1:17; 2:10.

“The whale shark’s unusual digestive anatomy lends itself to Jonah stories. It is easy to imagine yourself being inadvertently sucked into a whale shark’s mouth, which is huge .*.*. The cavernous mouth of even a small adult whale shark could easily accommodate a pair of Jonahs.”

The whale shark feeds on tiny plankton and krill, which “wash down through the esophagus into the immense and elastic banquet hall that is the cardiac stomach.” Yet, how could anyone get out? National Geographic says: “Sharks have a nonviolent way of getting rid of large objects of dubious digestibility they swallow .*.*. A shark can slowly empty its cardiac stomach by turning it inside out and pushing it through the mouth. .*.*. So, you could come gliding out on a mucus-covered carpet, slimier but perhaps wiser for the experience.”

Because of its large head and gullet, the sperm whale is capable of swallowing a man. Although whales are rare in the Mediterranean, whalers once docked at Joppa.

If you think the earth is thousands of years old... you might be a creationist.

The opening words of Genesis tell us: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” (Genesis 1:1) Do these words of Genesis say that this happened about ten thousand years ago? No, it gives no time period. “The beginning” could therefore have been billions of years ago.

However, right at “the beginning,” the Bible puts an intelligent being, the Creator, in control of the creative work. Although many scientists are uncomfortable with this idea, it harmonizes with the conclusions of astronomers that the universe did have a beginning, that it is very well ordered, and that it is governed by definite laws. An orderly arrangement based on law can come only from an intelligent mind. While science has explained many of these laws to us, Genesis alone introduces us to the Lawgiver.

Was each one of those six days a literal 24-hour day? That is not what Genesis says. The word “day” in the Hebrew language (the language in which Genesis was written) can mean long periods of time, even thousands, perhaps millions of years.


If you think two of each "kind" spent forty days on a wooden boat at altitudes of 23,000+ feet.... you might be a creationist.

It is true that encyclopedias refer to over a million species of animals. But Noah was instructed to preserve only representatives of every “kind” of land animal and flying creature. Some investigators have said that just 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles could have produced the great variety of species of these creatures that are known today. The ark had about 40,000 cu m (1,400,000 cu ft) of usable space—ample for the passenger list

....were did you get the "altitudes of 23,000+ feet"???

 

[carolinajazz]

If you think people lived along side dinosaurs.... you might be a creationist.

.....not true at all! Where did you come up with that idea? Dinosaurs were long gone before the creation of Adam and Eve! If some "Creationist" have drawn the conclusion that Dinosaurs co-existed with the first human couple, they didn't get that from the Genesis account! Dinosaurs were created on the 5th day and/or possibly the beginning of the 6th day. Those creative days were not 24 hours long but an un-determinable amount of time!


When the dinosaurs had fulfilled their purpose, God ended their life. But the Bible is silent on how he did that or when. We can be sure that dinosaurs were created by God for a purpose, even if we do not fully understand that purpose at this time. They were no mistake, no product of evolution. That they suddenly appear in the fossil record unconnected to any fossil ancestors, and also disappear without leaving connecting fossil links, is evidence against the view that such animals gradually evolved over millions of years of time. Thus, the fossil record does not support the evolution theory. Instead, it harmonizes with the Bible’s view of creative acts of God.

If you think jonah actually lived inside a whale for the better part of a week... you might be a creationist.(I think it was Jonah)

The whale shark is the largest of living fish, averaging some 25*feet [7.5*m] in length. However, some can reach nearly twice that size. Its mouth can be up to four feet [1.4*m] wide, easily capable of swallowing a man. But far from being a ferocious predator of other large sea creatures, this gentle giant feeds on tiny plankton and small fish. “The whale shark’s unusual digestive anatomy,” reported National Geographic magazine, “lends itself to Jonah stories,” referring to the Biblical incident about the prophet Jonah being swallowed by a great fish. Whale sharks have “a nonviolent way of getting rid of large objects of dubious digestibility they swallow accidentally.”—Jonah 1:17; 2:10.

“The whale shark’s unusual digestive anatomy lends itself to Jonah stories. It is easy to imagine yourself being inadvertently sucked into a whale shark’s mouth, which is huge .*.*. The cavernous mouth of even a small adult whale shark could easily accommodate a pair of Jonahs.”

The whale shark feeds on tiny plankton and krill, which “wash down through the esophagus into the immense and elastic banquet hall that is the cardiac stomach.” Yet, how could anyone get out? National Geographic says: “Sharks have a nonviolent way of getting rid of large objects of dubious digestibility they swallow .*.*. A shark can slowly empty its cardiac stomach by turning it inside out and pushing it through the mouth. .*.*. So, you could come gliding out on a mucus-covered carpet, slimier but perhaps wiser for the experience.”

Because of its large head and gullet, the sperm whale is capable of swallowing a man. Although whales are rare in the Mediterranean, whalers once docked at Joppa.

If you think the earth is thousands of years old... you might be a creationist.

The opening words of Genesis tell us: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” (Genesis 1:1) Do these words of Genesis say that this happened about ten thousand years ago? No, it gives no time period. “The beginning” could therefore have been billions of years ago.

However, right at “the beginning,” the Bible puts an intelligent being, the Creator, in control of the creative work. Although many scientists are uncomfortable with this idea, it harmonizes with the conclusions of astronomers that the universe did have a beginning, that it is very well ordered, and that it is governed by definite laws. An orderly arrangement based on law can come only from an intelligent mind. While science has explained many of these laws to us, Genesis alone introduces us to the Lawgiver.

Was each one of those six days a literal 24-hour day? That is not what Genesis says. The word “day” in the Hebrew language (the language in which Genesis was written) can mean long periods of time, even thousands, perhaps millions of years.


If you think two of each "kind" spent forty days on a wooden boat at altitudes of 23,000+ feet.... you might be a creationist.

It is true that encyclopedias refer to over a million species of animals. But Noah was instructed to preserve only representatives of every “kind” of land animal and flying creature. Some investigators have said that just 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles could have produced the great variety of species of these creatures that are known today. The ark had about 40,000 cu m (1,400,000 cu ft) of usable space—ample for the passenger list

....were did you get the "altitudes of 23,000+ feet"???