jhenderson008
Member
Sure, but how many losses is it going to cost the Jazz or how many wins will it earn? I guess it all depends if you are looking for a win this year or if it's more of a long-term suggestion.
Trade Idea: Jazz & Rockets
- Thread starter Twin Towers
- Start date
Sure, but how many losses is it going to cost the Jazz or how many wins will it earn? I guess it all depends if you are looking for a win this year or if it's more of a long-term suggestion.
Don't be so quick fill one hole by causing another. AK does a lot for the offense when they go through scoring droughts. AK knows how to get to the line and shoots a good ft%. This more than makes up for whatever he may lack in outside shooting. This seems to be consistently overlooked in AK discussions. AK has multiple 4-7 free throw games. The fouls he draws also help others either get to the line or benefit from relaxed defenders.
carolinajazz
Well-Known Member
...yeah, but the reason we have so many scoring droughts is because they leave Klinko wide open...and he can't make a jumpshot to save his neck!
You know this is refined b.s. 99.9999999999% pure. Good job.
Chad Feldheimer
Well-Known Member
I don't see this happening for a few reasons:
1) Too much change. Adding 3 new guys and finding minutes for them without disrupting the chemistry(18-8 and team seems pretty good together) is pretty unrealistic. Hell they already have 2 new starters this year. 3 if you count Hayboy
2) I don't they want to move AK. They would rather watch him expire or do a trade exception type deal like they did with Boozer.
3) Jazz have 5... yes 5 exceptions just sitting there. Boozer 1.4M, Ronnie Brewer 2.7M, Harpring 6.5M, Kosta 1.3, Maynor 1.3M. I bet they use one or more of those before dealing AK.
1) Too much change. Adding 3 new guys and finding minutes for them without disrupting the chemistry(18-8 and team seems pretty good together) is pretty unrealistic. Hell they already have 2 new starters this year. 3 if you count Hayboy
2) I don't they want to move AK. They would rather watch him expire or do a trade exception type deal like they did with Boozer.
3) Jazz have 5... yes 5 exceptions just sitting there. Boozer 1.4M, Ronnie Brewer 2.7M, Harpring 6.5M, Kosta 1.3, Maynor 1.3M. I bet they use one or more of those before dealing AK.
Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
AK always misses about 10-15 games because of injury. We are going to go into a drought when that time comes especially this year because our bench isn't as good.
Battier rarely misses games and he wouldn't need much time to make the transition.
This is an upgrade this year and in the long term. Battier improves our man to man defense and 3 point shooting which we need more than AK's blocks and assists.
Battier helps with the short term and win now mentality and Lee will help this year once he gets the offense down and he is a great long term solution. Bell and Battier would be very good mentors to Lee, Miles, Evans and Hayward. They would be player coaches for our team.
I see AK's future injury and our team going into a drought as a higher risk than the transition of the trade.
Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
1) You would only be adding 1 starter to the mix. And that starter is one of the smartest players in the league and probably knows the Jazz system very well so I don't buy the chemistry issue with Battier. Right now we really only have a 3 man rotation (Bell, AK & Miles at the wing positions) Price doesn't play much anyways so Lee could be worked in slowly into the rotation.
2) The Jazz do not want to do a trade exception. If you think the Jazz are going to use a trade exception than you haven't looked at the Jazz salary this year. No way the Jazz add more salary this year. Its not even an option for a small market team like the Jazz.
3) All 5 of those trade exceptions won't be used this year unless we shed AK's salary first. We are already way too far into the luxury tax.
The Jazz would much rather make a straight across trade or dump salary rather than use those trade exceptions. We can't afford it.
to #3-with us already being a pretty big luxury tax payer do you really think we would actually add more salary?
Fishsticks
Banned
I think the Jazz need to make a much bigger impact with a trade than Battier and Lee. Mayo or bust. And just because I know its comming, what is the general definition of a chucker? I see those terms put on Mayo and Kmart all the time, but watching them I see they are far less the chucker than say our very own CJ Miles.
Chad Feldheimer
Well-Known Member
Don't get me wrong. I don't think it's a horrible idea. I just don't see it happening.
1) If you add 3 guys and give up 1 wouldn't have to cut 2 guys then?
If you are including Fes I don't think it's a good deal. Jazz will need all the size they can get to battle LA.
2) Why wouldn't they want an exception? It's a long shot I know. But just letting AK expire might be sweet enough.
3) Maybe not one of the larger ones, but if the Jazz are in the hunt I would expect they would use one and bolster up a weakness (Shooting, rebounding).
Chad Feldheimer
Well-Known Member
Dupe.
Chad Feldheimer
Well-Known Member
Yes. I do. Maybe not the full 6.5M exception (x's 2 with the luxury tax) but maybe one of the smaller ones. Especially if they keep playing as well as they are.
Dont get me wrong I would love it if they did, but remember last year we dumped Maynor and Brewer to shed payroll (of course in the end the Brewer trade helped us get Al so not bad)
1) Miles shoots .46 shots per minute (at 1.13 PPS, 111th in the NBA)
2) Martin shoots .45 shots per minute (at 1.58 PPS, 4th in the NBA)
3) Mayo shoots .39 shots per minute (at 1.07 PPS, 126th in the NBA)
In conclusion, Kevin Martin is easily the worst player in the league. He scores WAY TOO MUCH AND WAY TOO EFFICIENTLY, that is precisely what the Jazz DO NOT need.
InGameStrategy
Well-Known Member
Good that you know that it's coming.
Through 25-26 games, Miles and Mayo have coincidentally taken nearly the exact same number of FGAs, and are averaging nearly the exact same PPG (12.1). But CJ had done it in >5 PPG less per game. Mayo has a notably better 3-point percentage but a subpar 40%ish overall FG%. So if CJ is a chucker, then you can make an argument that Mayo is more so. (Catch-'n-Jack-in-the-Box, hold the Mayo, if you will.)
Mayo may have more upside over Miles, especially given the fewer years of NBA experience (then again, Mayo has actually logged more NBA court time--7000 minutes vs. CJ's 5400), but right now, I don't even see Mayo as equal to Miles--much less better. Mayo is notably shorter--6'4", so he isn't a good 2/3 swingman like Miles. They are less than a year apart in age.
Oh, and the much-hallowed +/- tips the scales far in the favor of Catch 'n Jack; despite the Grizz having a losing record, a half-dozen other Grizz having better On-C/Off-C nums, and Mayo's on-court/off-court plus-minus is barely positive. CJ currently leads the Jazz in that category, aided by playing lots of minutes with the 2nd unit but also because he has started delivering big more often.
CJ is the only player on the Jazz right now where the opposition has scored more than the Jazz when he is on the bench; for every other player, Utah still has outscored the opposing team when that player is off the court. Not an insignificant accomplishment.
With the updated numbers as of December 15, Williams-Miles-Kirilenko-Millsap-Jefferson is the only combination (among the five most used lineups) that has a positive +/-, and it has the highest total +/- (it's fifth in +/- rate--a more instructive metric IMHO). On average, by contrast, the starting lineup has still been a net liability(!)--a far cry from setting the tone and building a lead in games.
Miles is also a part of 9 of the 10 best lineups in terms of highest +/- rate. Sloan could improve this team by simply playing Miles more (selectively) and Bell less (selectively). Doesn't have to start him; just keep him on the court longer when he's doing well. And then there's the bigs . . . .
Your comparison suggests that maybe Jazzfanz are underrating CJ's value on this team. He has been among the biggest reasons that Utah has had so many comebacks, and his contribution is a stark contrast to the true inconsistency and/or partial ineptitude of the starting lineup, including the wings.
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For the record, I like Miles. Unlike most Jazz fans, I understand that in order to be a threat, you have to shoot shots. No perimeter player in the league scores as many points on as few of shots as Kevin Martin. Who - just so we're clear - is a terrible player that would ruin the team.
gregbroncs
Well-Known Member
I don't hate this trade. I don't think Houston has any interest in this trade. As for the Jazz I really like battier and getting Lee is a plus. This only works if Memo comes back and is healthy and able to contribute this season. Other wise this team needs the length AK and Fess provide.
Chad Feldheimer
Well-Known Member
Another reason why I think if they did a deal they would do a small one if one at all. I wouldn't be shocked. Hell they are paying the tax to have Big Al.
Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
Yes Fesenko would be included. Okur and Elson are in front of Fesenko on the depth chart once they both come back. Elson will be lucky to get playing time behind Okur. Fesenko will be benched for the rest of the year.
Jeffries can help out also with his length if someone got injured. He is 6-11
Letting AK expire compared is sweet enough? I don't get this perspective. Its like we are getting something out of him expiring?
Letting Battier and Jeffries expire while also getting Lee is a better option IMO. And Maybe resigning Battier if he fits right.
We are not using the trade exception this year. No way.