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Trade Idea: Jazz & Rockets

Twin Towers said:
Yes Fesenko would be included. Okur and Elson are in front of Fesenko on the depth chart once they both come back. Elson will be lucky to get playing time behind Okur. Fesenko will be benched for the rest of the year.

Jeffries can help out also with his length if someone got injured. He is 6-11

Letting AK expire compared is sweet enough? I don't get this perspective. Its like we are getting something out of him expiring?

Letting Battier and Jeffries expire while also getting Lee is a better option IMO. And Maybe resigning Battier if he fits right.

We are not using the trade exception this year. No way.
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You really think Fes will be benched for the whole year? Why?

Jefferies barely plays for a horrible HOU team. What makes you think he'd be good enough to get anytime here? Hell the Jazz would probably just buy him out if that deal happened.

You are acting like AK is totally worthless? Keeping AK and letting him expire is probably a better way to say that.

using an exception more likely that trading AK imo. Because trading AK's huge deal usually means bringing back a huge deal or a mix of players to match up.
 
Chad Feldheimer said:
You really think Fes will be benched for the whole year? Why?

Jefferies barely plays for a horrible HOU team. What makes you think he'd be good enough to get anytime here? Hell the Jazz would probably just buy him out if that deal happened.

You are acting like AK is totally worthless? Keeping AK and letting him expire is probably a better way to say that.

using an exception more likely that trading AK imo. Because trading AK's huge deal usually means bringing back a huge deal or a mix of players to match up.
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Once Okur comes back he is going to take up 22-28 minutes once healthy.
96 minutes between the PF an Center position is all that exists
Lets say he takes up 25 minutes per game once he is healthy. That leaves 35 minutes for Millsap and Jefferson each. Lets just say that I am over estimating how many each player will get. No way its more than 10 minutes left over. Elson will get those minutes. Elson is ahead of Fesenko on the depth chart. That will leave Fesenko with nothing.

I never said Jefferies would EARN playing time here. I said he could play some minutes for us if someone got injured. Elson and Okur can easily take care of the back up PF and Center minutes. We wouldn't buy him out. We could use his length in case of an injury.

I never said AK was worthless. You are putting words in my mouth. I am stating that we need more outside shooting threats and man to man defenders and depth and scoring off the bench. I am a huge Fesenko fan but why keep him if we aren't going to play him once Okur comes back? Lee would give us more than Fesenko will be able to off the bench and he will be groomed to be our starting 2 guard to take over Bell's role.
 
Chad Feldheimer said:
You really think Fes will be benched for the whole year? Why?
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I do--or at least relegated to single-digit minutes insufficient for his development (or any player's development) or to really prove himself (not that the recent track record of holding down the paint shouldn't be enough).

Why? Because Fes doesn't know the offense very well (even though it hasn't been a factor in the regular recovery of deficits and growth of leads while he has been in the game), and because his FGs and FTs are poor (not that it has prevented the aforementioned massive impact that he and the 2nd unit have done, and even though he hasn't missed more than one free throw per game in a losing cause since the first game of the season).

And because Sloan has given Okur's Turkish torero defense a free pass for years, maybe in part because MO has been successful defensively at times, but usually at the expense of his offense; i.e., the playoff series vs. Houston 2 or 3 years ago.

And because Sloan seems to prefer Elson, even though rate of points, rebounds, and blocks are approximately the same. All season, Fes has committed only 6 TOs, vs. 22 for FE, and has committed only two more fouls than Elson, good for less than an extra PF per game.

I don't think that the Jazz will trade him away b/c he doesn't save them all that much money and--as last year showed--Utah is one injury away from being thin at the C spot (and not "Evans thin", btw).
 
InGameStrategy said:
Through 25-26 games, Miles and Mayo have coincidentally taken nearly the exact same number of FGAs, and are averaging nearly the exact same PPG (12.1). But CJ had done it in >5 PPG less per game. Mayo has a notably better 3-point percentage but a subpar 40%ish overall FG%. So if CJ is a chucker, then you can make an argument that Mayo is more so. (Catch-'n-Jack-in-the-Box, hold the Mayo, if you will.)
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Huh?

This reads CJ and Mayo have the same points per game, but CJ is doing it in less than 5 points per game less points per game. I'ma give you some redemption for that lame *** joke that was clever even though entirely unfunny. But please tell us what the hell you were meaning to say.
 
Twin Towers said:
Once Okur comes back he is going to take up 22-28 minutes once healthy.
96 minutes between the PF an Center position is all that exists
Lets say he takes up 25 minutes per game once he is healthy. That leaves 35 minutes for Millsap and Jefferson each. Lets just say that I am over estimating how many each player will get. No way its more than 10 minutes left over. Elson will get those minutes. Elson is ahead of Fesenko on the depth chart. That will leave Fesenko with nothing.

I never said Jefferies would EARN playing time here. I said he could play some minutes for us if someone got injured. Elson and Okur can easily take care of the back up PF and Center minutes. We wouldn't buy him out. We could use his length in case of an injury.

I never said AK was worthless. You are putting words in my mouth. I am stating that we need more outside shooting threats and man to man defenders and depth and scoring off the bench. I am a huge Fesenko fan but why keep him if we aren't going to play him once Okur comes back? Lee would give us more than Fesenko will be able to off the bench and he will be groomed to be our starting 2 guard to take over Bell's role.
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IF Okur can come back healthy. That could be a big if. I think the Jazz would be smart to keep Fes and use other pieces to land a shooter if they do at all.
 
franklin said:
Huh?

This reads CJ and Mayo have the same points per game, but CJ is doing it in less than 5 points per game less points per game. I'ma give you some redemption for that lame *** joke that was clever even though entirely unfunny. But please tell us what the hell you were meaning to say.
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Sorry; I didn't think that this point would be so confusing. CJ is scoring the same number of points per game in five fewer minutes per game. He's been a more prolific scorer.

In other words, despite being labeled a chucker, CJ is scoring at a higher rate (and FG%) than hold-the-Mayo.

Bottom line is that Miles is helping this team more than people are giving him credit for. In terms of contribution, he's not a 6th man; he's more like a 3rd through 5th man recently, depending on how you slice it.
 
Twin Towers said:
Once Okur comes back he is going to take up 22-28 minutes once healthy.
96 minutes between the PF an Center position is all that exists
Lets say he takes up 25 minutes per game once he is healthy. That leaves 35 minutes for Millsap and Jefferson each. Lets just say that I am over estimating how many each player will get. No way its more than 10 minutes left over. Elson will get those minutes. Elson is ahead of Fesenko on the depth chart. That will leave Fesenko with nothing.
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Don't you think that's a lot of height for the Jazz system to mix? Memo, AJ, and Millsap would play A LOT together for those numbers to come out. You'll probably end up correct here, but I'd be looking for less Memo (15), a little relief for Millsap and AJ (32 sounds low, but we'll see). That leaves 17 for the other two to split.

I really don't see Memo playing extended minutes this season. He has been pretty beaten up the last couple of years, and coming off this surgery is taking a long time. Sloan should go easy on him even if he fits in really well. We all know Sloan tightens the rotation in the playoffs. That's where I'd look for Memo to play higher minutes.
 
franklin said:
Don't you think that's a lot of height for the Jazz system to mix? Memo, AJ, and Millsap would play A LOT together for those numbers to come out. You'll probably end up correct here, but I'd be looking for less Memo (15), a little relief for Millsap and AJ (32 sounds low, but we'll see). That leaves 17 for the other two to split.

I really don't see Memo playing extended minutes this season. He has been pretty beaten up the last couple of years, and coming off this surgery is taking a long time. Sloan should go easy on him even if he fits in really well. We all know Sloan tightens the rotation in the playoffs. That's where I'd look for Memo to play higher minutes.
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Ya he might not be ready until All-star break before he is playing 20-28 minutes a game but Even if he is only playing 15 minutes a game Elson will be first off the bench anyways and I don't think Fesenko will be playing unless there is foul trouble or injury. When Elson is healthy and not dealing with Visa issues he has been first off the bench. Fesenko barley plays with Elson here. That that is without Okur. Once we add Okur Fesenko will play very rarely.
 
Twin Towers said:
Ya he might not be ready until All-star break before he is playing 20-28 minutes a game but Even if he is only playing 15 minutes a game Elson will be first off the bench anyways and I don't think Fesenko will be playing unless there is foul trouble or injury. When Elson is healthy and not dealing with Visa issues he has been first off the bench. Fesenko barley plays with Elson here. That that is without Okur. Once we add Okur Fesenko will play very rarely.
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I would not completely count out Fes being our 4th big man. He is still a better scorer in the inside and a lane clogger.
 
NCJazz said:
I would not completely count out Fes being our 4th big man. He is still a better scorer in the inside and a lane clogger.
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Oh I agree with that. I think Fesenko should be playing 15-20 minutes a night consistently. But its not what we want as fans is what we think Sloan will do. And Sloan will play Okur and Elson before Fesenko.
 
NCJazz said:
I would not completely count out Fes being our 4th big man. He is still a better scorer in the inside and a lane clogger.
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Not only this but I also think Fess might be a better running mate with Memo than Elson would be. Fess would get more room in the paint to wander and Memo would be chased around on the perimeter by one of the bigs. Fess is not bad if left on his own with only one defender and if his defender helps on defense Fess can slide in behind without worrying about Memo's man coming down to foul him. Elson however is a better running mate with Jefferson, because he does have a good mid range jumper.

So when Memo comes back I don't necessarily agree that Elson is automatically going to be the guy coming off of the bench over Fess.
 
gregbroncs said:
Not only this but I also think Fess might be a better running mate with Memo than Elson would be. Fess would get more room in the paint to wander and Memo would be chased around on the perimeter by one of the bigs. Fess is not bad if left on his own with only one defender and if his defender helps on defense Fess can slide in behind without worrying about Memo's man coming down to foul him. Elson however is a better running mate with Jefferson, because he does have a good mid range jumper.

So when Memo comes back I don't necessarily agree that Elson is automatically going to be the guy coming off of the bench over Fess.
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Again if Okur, Millsap and Jefferson are taking up the majority of the minutes how often could you match Okur with Fesenko anyways. I agree with everyone's reason for playing Fesenko. But Sloan has a bad history with rotations or playing the right players together to complement each other. He plays the players he likes first. Not who fits best. We should know this by now.
 
Twin Towers said:
Again if Okur, Millsap and Jefferson are taking up the majority of the minutes how often could you match Okur with Fesenko anyways. I agree with everyone's reason for playing Fesenko. But Sloan has a bad history with rotations or playing the right players together to complement each other. He plays the players he likes first. Not who fits best. We should know this by now.
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You can't go down to 3 big men though. I am not sure that Elson should be the 4th if Memo is the 3rd. I'll say again I don't hate your trade but think it's highly unlikely that Houston does it.

As far as Sloan he's been surprisingly adept at matching player's who compliment each other this year. That 2nd unit has been spectacular at times and it's a collection of players that would seem to be hard pressed for scoring.
 
I think it's more important to look at what Mayo or Lee would bring to the team than compare shooting percentages, minutes, or shots per game with existing players. To add an explosive player to the back court who can go off, shoot from multiple angles, drive to the hole, and make crisp passes would open up our offense in ways we haven't seen since Hornacek was here.
 
gregbroncs said:
You can't go down to 3 big men though. I am not sure that Elson should be the 4th if Memo is the 3rd. I'll say again I don't hate your trade but think it's highly unlikely that Houston does it.

As far as Sloan he's been surprisingly adept at matching player's who compliment each other this year. That 2nd unit has been spectacular at times and it's a collection of players that would seem to be hard pressed for scoring.
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Against the height of San Antonio, Dallas, and even Golden State and Phoenix (which doesn't have much height but played against Utah as if they did), Sloan has not been adept at "matching players who compl[e]ment each other" in the starting lineup. Or given that you wrote "compliment", maybe you were reporting that Millsap and Jefferson exchange pleasantries on a regular basis.

Not saying that they shouldn't start; just saying that they shouldn't play so much time together against teams that pwn them heightwise and/or on the boards. While players can ALWAYS do better and are rarely free from blame, this is a lineup and matchup problem that has been repeated several times this season; the second unit (and, sometimes, a reenergized and/or slightly realigned first unit) has sometimes been able to salvage the W later in the game, but when they haven't, it has ended in a loss.

There's no reason to dig these holes so frequently in the first quarter, and there's no reason that the coaches should let it happen. It's not just being ready to go; it's the matchups. And if the players are dogging it OR getting pwned, they should sit down for a few plays. Or longer.
 
InGameStrategy said:
Against the height of San Antonio, Dallas, and even Golden State and Phoenix (which doesn't have much height but played against Utah as if they did), Sloan has not been adept at "matching players who compl[e]ment each other" in the starting lineup. Or given that you wrote "compliment", maybe you were reporting that Millsap and Jefferson exchange pleasantries on a regular basis.

Not saying that they shouldn't start; just saying that they shouldn't play so much time together against teams that pwn them heightwise and/or on the boards. While players can ALWAYS do better and are rarely free from blame, this is a lineup and matchup problem that has been repeated several times this season; the second unit (and, sometimes, a reenergized and/or slightly realigned first unit) has sometimes been able to salvage the W later in the game, but when they haven't, it has ended in a loss.

There's no reason to dig these holes so frequently in the first quarter, and there's no reason that the coaches should let it happen. It's not just being ready to go; it's the matchups. And if the players are dogging it OR getting pwned, they should sit down for a few plays. Or longer.
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You forgot to add:

Coaching 101. Simple.
 
Seeinghow you seem so sure about this trade, why dont you just offer the Rockets that and see what they think?? Well?? C'mon what the hell are you waiting for!!!!??
 
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