Dante Exum vs. the NBA

[silesian]

Magic

Umm, no.
Magic Johnson was 6'8" or 6'9 (depending on what site you use). He once played center in a playoff game. Apologies to Stockton, but Magic was the greatest PG to play the game (pure "point", scoring point, blah, blah, blah). Magic had the ability to create shots and put the team on his back. Stockton couldn't do that. As much as I absolutely LOATHE the Lakers and Magic as a person, I can appreciate the incredible talent Johnson was as a player. It was a joy to watch the Johnson/Bird battles. BTW, Magic averaged 19/11 for his career, which was much shorter than Stockton's. His assists averages actually stayed high while John's declined significantly. Had they played the same number of seasons, it would have been interesting to see who finished with the most assists. Magic was also a tremendous rebounder (7 per game). Stockton had an advantage in steals per game (2.2 vs. 1.9).

I watched the bird magic NCAA finals in my my junior year in high school and he played center against my sixers in my senior year. And followed his whole career. So your lesson on his greatness from the history books is preaching to the choir.

 

[Fabtrey]

Magic is taller, about 6 8 in shoes versus exum at 6 6 (see link below about magics inflated height stats uncovered in Barcelona). Exum has awesome wingspan and standing reach which closes this gap.

Seem that you agree with my main point about magic's amazing bball iq, despite you condescending "ummmmm" followed by height nitpick. No?

https://www.nytimes.com/1992/07/27/sports/barcelona-basketball-dream-team-reaching-new-heights.html

i have magic at 6ft 7 1/4 to 6ft 7 1/2 barefoot. magic is bron's height.

so magic is roughly 3 inches taller than 6ft 4 1/2 exum. and magic is naturally thick guy. he would abuse exum physically if exum have to guard him. i mean magic will get whatever he wants. magic won't be able to stay in front of exum, but magic really wasn't much of a defender anyway. but he was underrated help defender.

 

[Fabtrey]

Interesting big point guard comparison: Magic Johnson.

Exum has better speed, quickness, vertical, better outside shot, better first step, about the same height.

The big unknown: basketball IQ, passing ability, teamwork, drive and leadership. These are the real questions in my mind.

vertical? questionable. young Magic wasn't a great leaper, but he could do this. pause at 24 sec.

 

[Fabtrey]

also 'better speed' is questionable. there is combine speed and then there is a speed with the ball in your hands. no doubt smaller exum will be more agile than magic. but straight line speed with the ball in their hands? that's very questionable.

magic ran and ran. that was his game. he really was a freight train coming at ya full speed. magic wasn't a slow porker in his prime. he ran that showtime train with the vision and his speed. he knew trailer was coming from left, behind, and right, so he always ran full speed and dished that patented no look pass from every damn angle. it was a pure beauty.

honestly magic wasn't even about intangible, leadership, or drive. those are just 2ndary. he had all those qualities, but Magic really was a pure talent. he was a basketball genius. one of the most talented baller ever walked on earth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=podmEIguecA&feature=player_embedded

and no doubt the 2nd greatest player i've ever seen live.

 

[silesian]

Magic

vertical? questionable. young Magic wasn't a great leaper, but he could do this. pause at 24 sec.

exum's vert is 34 1/2, so it's definitely not elite. so i think young magic could match his vert or at lest get close to it. and remember magic is bigger and naturally thicker than exum too.

and better outside shot? we don't know that yet. magic wasn't much of a shooter, but he could baby/sky/jump hook from 15-19 ft at will.

Facts is facts. Fact: Magic was awesome. Fact: Magic had an average vertical and generally did not play above the rim (30 inch vertical has generally been reported, Bird's was 28, see below. Both seem right to me having watched them in their early careers). Early career, Magic could not make a 3 point shot to save his life. In his first 8 years, he was under 20% and it was not really in his tool kit (he shot it rarely). He developed a 3 in his last few years to compensate for other diminishing skills (to his credit). All you said about his shots is spot on but is in mid-range to short-range game.

https://www.topendsports.com/testing/results/vertical-jump.htm

 

[Fabtrey]

Facts is facts. Fact: Magic was awesome. Fact: Magic had an average vertical and generally did not play above the rim (30 inch vertical has generally been reported, Bird's was 28, see below. Both seem right to me having watched them in their early careers). Early career, Magic could not make a 3 point shot to save his life. In his first 8 years, he was under 20% and it was not really in his tool kit (he shot it rarely). He developed a 3 in his last few years to compensate for other diminishing skills (to his credit). All you said about his shots is spot on but is in mid-range to short-range game.

https://www.topendsports.com/testing/results/vertical-jump.htm

3pt wasn't a part of NBA routine. bird shot poorly in 3s early in his career. why? because shooting 3 was rare. so you can't really fault magic or any other early 80's nba players for that. and by your logic exum is better shooter than bird ever was. many idiots argue Bron was a better shooter than bird just because bird never really shot 3s early and % was poor.

and that dunk i posted looks pretty respectable. magic never got better at hops because he didn't have to, but you can see his leaping ability was there. again compare 19 year old magic to exum. not 29 year old magic. shaq had 36 inch vert in predraft, but we all know he gradually put gained weight every year and never leaped that much ever again. and i predict exum will only improve his vert because 34 1/2 inch is p!ss poor by today's standard. and it's not a fact when magic never officially measured his vertical in front of scouts. and remember magic was wearing this piece of crap

i hope the kid gets better and hopefully one day he can lead us to the championship like magic did in his career 9 times. but really we should never ever put exum and magic in a same sentence. that's just not fair for the kid.


oh by the way that link you posted is nothing but a load of crap. nobody knows MJ's vertical. i don't buy 48 inch vert. it's more like 42-44. and i have no idea where they got 38 inch from kobe. kobe never was measured officially. shaq's max vert was measured at 36.

 

[Fabtrey]

magic attempted total 302 3pters in first 9 years. that's about 33 3pters per season. and i bet 1/4 of them are desperation half court shots. shooting 3pt was only reserved for great shooters at that time. ask bob knight. he would not let his players shoot 3s unless they are allowed to. teams were busy running the offense playing inside out. that's why 80's team could average well over 110pts in a frantic pace without shooting so many damn 3's. i remember pistons dropping 147pts against celtics in 86 or 87 finals and they didn't even attempt 3pts much. so i can't really say magic was p!ss poor shooter from the outside because he never really practiced for it. it's like saying yao ming is a poor outside shooter. yao probably could be a decent 3pt shooter if he had an opportunity to shoot 3s and make 3s part of his repertoire. but why would a 7ft 6 center shoot a 3? back then it was the same logic. shooters shoot. pgs ran the point.

and stockton shot below .200% from 3s first 3 years of career. also shot .242% in his 5th season. also had many seasons with low .300%. not many will believe exum is a better outside shooter than stockton was.

 

[silesian]

Shooter

3pt wasn't a part of NBA routine. bird shot poorly in 3s early in his career. why? because shooting 3 was rare. so you can't really fault magic or any other early 80's nba players for that. and by your logic exum is better shooter than bird ever was.

I'm curious, did you see him play? Magic led the break, found the open man, dissected a defense, knew how to lead and win.

Magic was an average outside shooter, 3P%:

Bird carer 38%
Johnson career was 30%

Magic Johnson was a facilitator and leader first, a scorer second and not a shooter.

I am comparing two players from the same era, so the whole "it was different then" does not hold water.

 

[silesian]

magic never got better at hops because he didn't have to

what do you mean by this? how do you know this?

 

[silesian]

benchmark

but really we should never ever put exum and magic in a same sentence. that's just not fair for the kid.

Yes, it would be unfair to say Dante will become Magic or something idiotic like that. But nobody is saying that as you seem to imply.

The point of my post is to benchmark against the best, and in the case of large PG and BBall IQ, the best was Magic. Would it be a bad thing for Dante to aspire to this sort of greatness?


Magic also was phenomenal at pushing the ball up the floor and finding scorers on the break, where I think Exum has potential as well as great speed.

 

[silesian]

I think we agree

so i can't really say magic was p!ss poor shooter from the outside because he never really practiced for it.

So you are saying that Magic hypothetically could have been a great outside shooter if he had hypothetically practiced outside shooting. I agree with that! (seriously).

Outside the hypothetical and back into the real world, he did not work to perfect his outside shooting (until last few years) and was not a great shooter for most of his career.

Maybe we can end on that agreement?

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

In terms of a tall PG with great speed and quickness, but who isn't a great jumper/explosive at the rim, I like Barbosa and taller TP comparisons, but also a young JKidd.

Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk 2

I'm shocked the Devin Harris comp isn't really thrown around anywhere

Umm, no.
Magic Johnson was 6'8" or 6'9 (depending on what site you use). He once played center in a playoff game. Apologies to Stockton, but Magic was the greatest PG to play the game (pure "point", scoring point, blah, blah, blah). Magic had the ability to create shots and put the team on his back. Stockton couldn't do that. As much as I absolutely LOATHE the Lakers and Magic as a person, I can appreciate the incredible talent Johnson was as a player. It was a joy to watch the Johnson/Bird battles. BTW, Magic averaged 19/11 for his career, which was much shorter than Stockton's. His assists averages actually stayed high while John's declined significantly. Had they played the same number of seasons, it would have been interesting to see who finished with the most assists. Magic was also a tremendous rebounder (7 per game). Stockton had an advantage in steals per game (2.2 vs. 1.9).

this is off subject a little, but I have never and will never by the Magic is the greatest pg to play in the nba.

Stockton is the greatest in my opinion. The numbers alone make this argument in my opinion. I also take into account the fact that Magic is around 7-8 inches taller then Stockton and played on one of the iconic most talent laden teams of all time (show time ). Think of it this way. Stockton through his career put up mind numbing insain stats, and was a great shooter and as clutch as they come. Without looking at his stats he probably had 5-6 years in a row where his stats were better then the two MVP seasons Nash had, and had he and Malone had not run into MJ in the finals, it's possible he should've could've had two chips. But my favorite arguement is this... Put Stockton on the same Lakers team Magic played on, and then think of the numbers he'd have put up. There wasn't a better player at dominating a game without scoring. Pound for pound the toughest to ever play the game!

Sorry couldn't hold my peace.

I will never except that Magic was better. Taller, yes. It also didn't hurt that he played for one of the all time great teams.

what do you mean by this? how do you know this?

 

[seattlejazzfan]

what do you mean by this? how do you know this?

Wait, did fabtrey really say Magic never got better at hops (hops as in jumping ability?) because he didn't have to? Sorry, I don't want to sift through his entire post to find it.

 

[slc]

Magic is always in the top five all time players.
Stockton never is even close.
Magic played PG.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Magic is always in the top five all time players.
Stockton never is even close.
Magic played PG.

Stockton is still the better pg

 

[jope]

You can build around magic as the center piece. You couldn't do that with stock. I love stock but it's clearly magic who was the better (more valuable?) player, and it's not really that close.

Sent from the JazzFanz app

 

[UGLI baby]

I've seen a lot of ppl say Barbosa. Barbosa was 6'3" and in general does not remind me of Exum much.




£¥£

 

[Doublea]

So Exum is a combination of Harris, Barbosa, Jordon, Kobe, Wall, Magic, Parker....

Sounds good to me

 

[UGLI baby]

So Exum is a combination of Harris, Barbosa, Jordon, Kobe, Wall, Magic, Parker....

Sounds good to me

Anfernee Hardaway


£¥£

 

[8]

Combo of Cecil and Desiree tbh