Wiggins vs Love
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fishonjazz
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I think the trade is the right the right move for both teams.
For minnesota: love is going to leave anyway and wiggins is the best piece they will be able to get (much better than klay thompson)
For cleveland: they are in win now mode (while bron is still the best player around, which may not be for much longer) and love is currently better than wiggins and probably will be better than wiggins for at least another 3 years or so
For minnesota: love is going to leave anyway and wiggins is the best piece they will be able to get (much better than klay thompson)
For cleveland: they are in win now mode (while bron is still the best player around, which may not be for much longer) and love is currently better than wiggins and probably will be better than wiggins for at least another 3 years or so
seattlejazzfan
Well-Known Member
When LBJ first signed with Cleveland, I thought trading Wiggins for Love was a no brainer, but the more time passes, I'm starting to come around a bit on keeping Wiggins. As a NBA fan, I want Wiggins to succeed and I think his best chance of becoming the best he can be is to spend the first 5-6 years of his career with LeBron. Their best chance to win while LeBron is close to or in his prime would be to make the trade and that is what they will probably do, but since I couldn't give a rat's *** about Cleveland, there is a big part of me that would like to see them keep Wiggins and roll with it.
AlaskanAssassin
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Anyone who thinks the Cavs should not trade Wiggins for Love is either out of their mind, or they don't really know how good Kevin Love is. He averaged 26 and 12.5 last year. That's more points than James Harden and more rebounds than Dwight Howard. He is arguably a top 5 player in the league. After Lebron and Durant, he's in the conversation. The only arguments I hear about him not being a top 5 player are that he's a poor defender and that his teams don't win.
The Wolves are my #2 team, and I watched 60+ of their games last year. Love is not a bad defender, he's just not a rim protector. He plays solid positional defense. The fact that his team has never made the playoffs is more to do with bad roster construction, mostly bad coaching, and poor management. In addition, playing in one of the toughest and deepest conferences in NBA history doesn't help. They would have been between the 3-5 seed in the East.
Even if Wiggins ends up being as good as Love (which I doubt), his prime won't overlap very will with LeBron's. Kevin Love is currently 25 years old. He's just starting his prime years. He's also a perfect complement to a guy like Lebron. He's a unique player that will both space the floor and bang in the middle for rebounds. They will immediately become the favorites in the East with a punchers chance to beat whatever team comes out of the West.
There is virtually no argument here, which is why Cleveland came off their position so quickly and are now offering Wiggins + more for Love.
The Wolves are my #2 team, and I watched 60+ of their games last year. Love is not a bad defender, he's just not a rim protector. He plays solid positional defense. The fact that his team has never made the playoffs is more to do with bad roster construction, mostly bad coaching, and poor management. In addition, playing in one of the toughest and deepest conferences in NBA history doesn't help. They would have been between the 3-5 seed in the East.
Even if Wiggins ends up being as good as Love (which I doubt), his prime won't overlap very will with LeBron's. Kevin Love is currently 25 years old. He's just starting his prime years. He's also a perfect complement to a guy like Lebron. He's a unique player that will both space the floor and bang in the middle for rebounds. They will immediately become the favorites in the East with a punchers chance to beat whatever team comes out of the West.
There is virtually no argument here, which is why Cleveland came off their position so quickly and are now offering Wiggins + more for Love.
spycam1
Well-Known Member
Good stuff.
AlaskanAssassin
Well-Known Member
Is it not risky to not trade for Love? When you say "Cavs Traded next great player for nothing" what do you mean? They are getting a "now great player" immediately. What percentage chance would you give Wiggins of ever being as good as Love? I feel like we are overvaluing "potential" and undervaluing a star player just entering his prime.
carolinajazz
Well-Known Member
Love on the Cav's would almost assure them a spot in the Eastern Conference Finals and probably mean advancing to the Finals. Going with the rookie with all the other young guys on that team, does not assure the Cav's would go any farther than just making the playoffs. Love is a 3 time all-star and Wiggins has yet to play a game in the NBA. Love is fundamentally sound....Wiggins only knows "schoolyard" ball and maybe 3 plays! Love can shoot lights out, rebound both offensively and especially defensively.....Wiggins generally "cherry picks" when the opponent takes a shot! Love is clean as a whistle....Wiggins is probably already loaded with jailhouse tats! That's my assessment and I stand by it!
Individually, Dwyane Wade might be the better player than Love, the prime Wade at least, but Wade and Lebron have more overlaps in their games than the Lebron and Love duo have. I think Lebron would get much more benefit from Love's game so in my opinion, LBJ + Love > LBJ + Wade. It's a similar situation with Wiggins too. Plus Wiggins is no where near to contribute to Lebron in the way that will make the Cavs super-competing. And when the time Wiggins starts to contribute big, which is not guaranteed btw, Lebron will be starting to fade.
I think with Lebron and Love, the Cavs would have much more longer time window and much more cumulative power right away to compete for the title.
I think with Lebron and Love, the Cavs would have much more longer time window and much more cumulative power right away to compete for the title.
I think adding Love increases odds of LeBron staying. If you've got two legit outside guys who are completely opening up the floor for James, they'll be pretty damn good. It would be worth giving up the next Jason Richardson for.
The Fresh Prince
Well-Known Member
Damn. You seriously just prejudged the flocka out of Wiggins.
LeBron's window won't be open for long the way he played (110% all the time for the last 10 years).
Think about Wade - his body is starting to break down now.
No brainer - trade for Love - NOW.
Think about Wade - his body is starting to break down now.
No brainer - trade for Love - NOW.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
If I already had a superstar and needed to win a championship now? Love
If I'm building a team from scratch? Wiggins
If I'm building a team from scratch? Wiggins
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Was there ever a highlight film made of KLove's destruction of the Jazz last year in Swat Lake City? If not then there should be.
That was as dominant of a game as I've ever seen a player have in Salt Lake.
I was there and it felt like he was a high school senior playing on an elementary school playground.
33 mins: 37 pts (11-20) 13 rbs 10 assists
That was as dominant of a game as I've ever seen a player have in Salt Lake.
I was there and it felt like he was a high school senior playing on an elementary school playground.
33 mins: 37 pts (11-20) 13 rbs 10 assists
The way I look at the rumoured Love - Wiggins scenario is that it's really a trade-off in different things that you have to weigh.
1) Kevin Love is a highly productive player and a lot of his skills work really well together with LeBron: Rebounding, outlet passes, spreading the floor, low post and Pick and Pop in the halfcourt.
2) There's a good chance Wiggins will never reach the level at which Love is currently playing.
-> I think it's worth the risk to take Love and take the (low) chance that in 5 years Wiggins might be better than Love is right now.
3) If you do the trade you devalue Bennett and Thompson. Bennett is rumoured to be included in the packet anyways. Everybody knows you play Love 40 min at PF and 30 min at Center for Andy when he's healthy.
4) Do you plan to play Thompson in a Taj Gibson role, where he backs up both big positions? Can he do that efficiently? Thompson is 1 inch smaller than Gibson, has 3 inches less wingspan, but his standing reach is only half an inch shorter somehow according to DX. Maybe you can get away with it vs reserve units. But this would also mean that you stop an aging LeBron from playing stretch 4 in certain lineups.
5) Tristan Thompson is represented by Rich Paul. Will that create a conflict of interest? Some agent power play could hurt the team?
-> You'd have to negotiate a trade of Thompson in good faith and then there's the question who's the the rim protector insurance for the injury prone Varejao?
One thing I'd like would be something like: Side deal with Minnesota where Cleveland gives up Thompson for Brewer + Dieng. Maybe a third team would be needed to make it work.
Then you'd have a lineup that looks like:
Kyrie / backup PG / Waiters
Waiters / Brewer
LeBron / Miller / Brewer
Love / LeBron
Varejao / Dieng
I think this would be a pretty strong lineup.
But personally if I'm Cleveland I'd do the Wiggins for Love trade and try to figure out something how you deal with the Thompson situation.
1) Kevin Love is a highly productive player and a lot of his skills work really well together with LeBron: Rebounding, outlet passes, spreading the floor, low post and Pick and Pop in the halfcourt.
2) There's a good chance Wiggins will never reach the level at which Love is currently playing.
-> I think it's worth the risk to take Love and take the (low) chance that in 5 years Wiggins might be better than Love is right now.
3) If you do the trade you devalue Bennett and Thompson. Bennett is rumoured to be included in the packet anyways. Everybody knows you play Love 40 min at PF and 30 min at Center for Andy when he's healthy.
4) Do you plan to play Thompson in a Taj Gibson role, where he backs up both big positions? Can he do that efficiently? Thompson is 1 inch smaller than Gibson, has 3 inches less wingspan, but his standing reach is only half an inch shorter somehow according to DX. Maybe you can get away with it vs reserve units. But this would also mean that you stop an aging LeBron from playing stretch 4 in certain lineups.
5) Tristan Thompson is represented by Rich Paul. Will that create a conflict of interest? Some agent power play could hurt the team?
-> You'd have to negotiate a trade of Thompson in good faith and then there's the question who's the the rim protector insurance for the injury prone Varejao?
One thing I'd like would be something like: Side deal with Minnesota where Cleveland gives up Thompson for Brewer + Dieng. Maybe a third team would be needed to make it work.
Then you'd have a lineup that looks like:
Kyrie / backup PG / Waiters
Waiters / Brewer
LeBron / Miller / Brewer
Love / LeBron
Varejao / Dieng
I think this would be a pretty strong lineup.
But personally if I'm Cleveland I'd do the Wiggins for Love trade and try to figure out something how you deal with the Thompson situation.
spycam1
Well-Known Member
Yeah, trading for Love is probably the right move.
It just seems like the T-Wolves shouldn't have so much leverage considering they pretty much have to trade Love. If they land a future star like Wiggins out of this situation, then well, kudas to them.
Part of me wants to see Wiggins stay in Cleveland just so he can be mentored by LeBron. Then again, maybe Wiggins would prefer to have his own franchise.
It just seems like the T-Wolves shouldn't have so much leverage considering they pretty much have to trade Love. If they land a future star like Wiggins out of this situation, then well, kudas to them.
Part of me wants to see Wiggins stay in Cleveland just so he can be mentored by LeBron. Then again, maybe Wiggins would prefer to have his own franchise.
addictionary
Well-Known Member
Love is a tempting one for any franchise, but I believe it would be a blasphemic move to skip the chance to see Wiggins grow under Bron.
But do their fans want to see winning with Lebron as fast as possible, or his mentoring of their most recent #1 pick?