RIP Robin Williams

[candrew]

Turns out Williams was recently diagnosed with Parkinsons.

 

[cowhide]

I don't disagree but with a wife and loved ones, I simply find it selfish. And this does not mean I don't feel sorry for the guy or terrible for his family. As others have pointed out, mental illness is a disease. I've had some God awful days where I feel at my wit's end, and question how to go on. To endure that every day for years must feel like an insidious cancer, corroding your every thought and soul.

Having a bad day or two, is no where near clinic depression (I am not saying you are saying that). The Beast rarely loses a fight. There are different levels of depression. Some people can't just snap out of it. Look at all the "cowards" in the military because suicide is a real issue there. (I am being sarcastic). People are in real debilitating pain and they are not thinking rationally when they decide to take their lives. In their minds ending it is rational because they are in so much pain. The darkness is overwhelming and can be consuming even with medicine and counseling. Some of the insensitive comments just show how far we as a society have to go before really addressing this issue. It is a very complex issue that requires constant attention and complete compassion and not ridicule or shame.

 

[JAZZGASM]

Having a bad day or two, is no where near clinic depression (I am not saying you are saying that). The Beast rarely loses a fight. There are different levels of depression. Some people can't just snap out of it. Look at all the "cowards" in the military because suicide is a real issue there. (I am being sarcastic). People are in real debilitating pain and they are not thinking rationally when they decide to take their lives. In their minds ending it is rational because they are in so much pain. The darkness is overwhelming and can be consuming even with medicine and counseling. Some of the insensitive comments just show how far we as a society have to go before really addressing this issue. It is a very complex issue that requires constant attention and complete compassion and not ridicule or shame.

A guy I know actually took his life last week. He has been dealing with horrendous back pain for years, and it has caused issues in his work and personal life. He was on pain killers all the time, and pretty groggy. He caused him to go into deep depression. Pretty sad.

 

[cowhide]

Is suicide still selfish if the person has no friends or family at all?

Is it selfish if the suicidal persons friends and family wish he wasn't in thier lives?

Just curious

What if the person has a life threatening disease or one that takes away the quality of life? So is it selfish for the people who keep the person alive just so they can be with that person a few extra days? I am a supporter of the right to chose to end your life. No one owns my body. If I had ALS or MS, untreatable cancer or some other horrible disease, I would say good bye to my kids and jump in my car and move to Oregon or Washington so I could be euthanized when the moment was right.

 

[cowhide]

If some one gives your a crappy gift for your birthday, like an ugly shirt that you don't like, and you throw it away...... does that make you selfish?

To some, the gift of life might be a horrible gift that they don't want and want to throw away..... like a crappy t-shirt

Yea the "gift of Life" sucks for some people, when they wake up and realize they have no/bad parents, live in a war torn country, can't walk because they have no legs etc. Unfortunately, the return policy sucks as bad sometimes.

 

[JAZZGASM]

What if the person has a life threatening disease or one that takes away the quality of life? So is it selfish for the people who keep the person alive just so they can be with that person a few extra days? I am a supporter of the right to chose to end your life. No one owns my body. If I had ALS or MS, untreatable cancer or some other horrible disease, I would say good bye to my kids and jump in my car and move to Oregon or Washington so I could be euthanized when the moment was right.

In Oregon, euthanasia is legal. It obviously is a double-edged sword. We are kind enough to put our pets out of their misery, but outside of Oregon, we have to suffer.

 

[cowhide]

Depression is not real. It is side effect of artificial preservatives and eating packaged food. You can tell this by looking at wars. Back in the day they did not feed soldiers MREs and boxed junk. In Korean War there is no PTSD or depression and they did stuff so much more nasty than in Iraq drones war.

Eating healthy with exercise will help you become mentally strong.

Seriously, this may be one of the dumbest post I've read on this board. PTSD has been around as long as war has been around. They just called it different names and didn't understand it back in the day. You don't have to go to war to have depression or PTSD, it is known to be passed genetically and happens as a result of severe trauma (death, sickness, victim of crimes, financial loss, etc).

 

[fishonjazz]

Thank you all for the thoughtful responses. Fwiw, I wasn't singling out molestation, or murder, or rape; just trying to make a point, or rather, open up the conversation.

In response to an answer that most of you brought up re: suicide not causing harm to others, we will simply have to agree to disagree on that one. I dare say that the three year old girl who gets molested by a neighbor is better off than the wife who comes home to find a son or husband who has blown their head off. Both are tragic and horrific, but the suicide will haunt the wife and family much longer and harder than the child who will not remember the abuse.

But seriously, thanks for the responses.

You do realize not every suicide victim has close family right?
You also realize that occasionally the loved ones are in fact better off without the person alive and in thier lives right.

The molested child is affected negatively every single time.

 

[cowhide]

In Oregon, euthanasia is legal. It obviously is a double-edged sword. We are kind enough to put our pets out of their misery, but outside of Oregon, we have to suffer.

I think Washington made it legal recently. I don't know what you mean when you say it is a double-edge sword. I agree that we show more compassion towards our animals than our fellow humans. I became interested and a supporter when I watched my grandmother suffer tremendously when she had cancer. She had lung cancer for months and then the cancer spread but she suffered for a few more days before she died. I just remember her crying to my father that she wanted to die and they just kept her hooked up, she weighed less than seventy pounds when she died., it happened 30 years ago and I still get choked up thinking about it.

 

[fishonjazz]

What if the person has a life threatening disease or one that takes away the quality of life? So is it selfish for the people who keep the person alive just so they can be with that person a few extra days? I am a supporter of the right to chose to end your life. No one owns my body. If I had ALS or MS, untreatable cancer or some other horrible disease, I would say good bye to my kids and jump in my car and move to Oregon or Washington so I could be euthanized when the moment was right.

I agree with all of this.
I think assisted suicide should absolutely be available to certain people

 

[JAZZGASM]

I think Washington made it legal recently. I don't know what you mean when you say it is a double-edge sword. I agree that we show more compassion towards our animals than our fellow humans. I became interested and a supporter when I watched my grandmother suffer tremendously when she had cancer. She had lung cancer for months and then the cancer spread but she suffered for a few more days before she died. I just remember her crying to my father that she wanted to die and they just kept her hooked up, she weighed less than seventy pounds when she died., it happened 30 years ago and I still get choked up thinking about it.

It is a double-edged sword because it leads to abuse. There is a great documentary on it on Netflix (forget the name). Essentially, people will get euthanized when they shouldn't. Often times it is to save families the money for treatments, etc., even with the patient is in good health. IIRC, it isn't doctors that do the procedure (probably due to that Hippocratic Oath). They do it at hour house and you take pills.

For people that are truly suffering and want to go that route, I am all for it.

 

[Duck Rodgers]

Thought these demographics of suicide were pretty interesting:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...1164d6-225e-11e4-86ca-6f03cbd15c1a_story.html

Especially this one:

Men account for only about 20 percent of suicide attempts but represent about 80 percent of completed suicides, statistics show, almost certainly because they choose more lethal methods: guns and leaps from high places instead of drug overdoses, Ongur said.

That's wild if that's accurate. I would have guessed men attempted suicide more and that both had a similar "success" rate if I was just pulling stuff out of the air.

 

[JAZZGASM]

Thought these demographics of suicide were pretty interesting:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...1164d6-225e-11e4-86ca-6f03cbd15c1a_story.html

Especially this one:



That's wild if that's accurate. I would have guessed men attempted suicide more and that both had a similar "success" rate if I was just pulling stuff out of the air.

I have heard this plenty of times. From what I read a long time ago, is because men usually mean to actually do it, when it is theorized women are often doing it as a call for attention.

 

[fishonjazz]

I have heard this plenty of times. From what I read a long time ago, is because men usually mean to actually do it, when it is theorized women are often doing it as a call for attention.

Women always looking for attention.
smd

 

[moevillini]

I have heard this plenty of times. From what I read a long time ago, is because men usually mean to actually do it, when it is theorized women are often doing it as a call for attention.

what I have heard in this regard is that women are more reluctant to damage their appearance. Plus women tend to have a higher comfort level with and more access to medications and less access and lower comfort level to guns.

 

[The Midnight]

Thought these demographics of suicide were pretty interesting:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...1164d6-225e-11e4-86ca-6f03cbd15c1a_story.html

Especially this one:



That's wild if that's accurate. I would have guessed men attempted suicide more and that both had a similar "success" rate if I was just pulling stuff out of the air.

I remember once in a legendary movie called "Pontiac Moon", an American Indian guy said something about "Don't sweat the small stuff".


Looking at those stats seems like they cope better with depression than white/black/asian americans...

 

[moevillini]

what I have heard in this regard is that women are more reluctant to damage their appearance. Plus women tend to have a higher comfort level with and more access to medications and less access and lower comfort level to guns.

also women tend to chose methods (overdose, asphyxiation) that would not leave as much of a mess to clean up.

 

[candrew]

Men account for only about 20 percent of suicide attempts but represent about 80 percent of completed suicides, statistics show, almost certainly because they choose more lethal methods: guns and leaps from high places instead of drug overdoses, Ongur said.

Political correct gibberish - many women (especially young women and teens) attempt suicide as a cry for help or to get attention which is why they have such a high failure rate.

 

[One Brow]

It is a double-edged sword because it leads to abuse. There is a great documentary on it on Netflix (forget the name).

Would it be Death As A Salesman: What's Wrong With Assisted Suicide ? There's a reason this film's mention are primarily in the various right-to-life/religious circles; it's arguments are specious and anecdote-driven.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199611283352227

Among the cases a euthanasia and physician-assisted suicide, less than 1% were without the explicit, concurrent consent of the patient.

Concerns about abuse are a distraction from the issues, not central to the issues.

 

[TroutBum]

You do realize not every suicide victim has close family right?
You also realize that occasionally the loved ones are in fact better off without the person alive and in thier lives right.

The molested child is affected negatively every single time.

Yes, I realize that some people have no family, but the majority do. Yes, I certainly realize that some families are better off without the person in their lives, but again, the majority aren't. I also agree that a molested child is affected negatively every single time. I simply stated my opinion, which was that more people suffer because of suicide, and at a much greater rate.

I agree with all of this.
I think assisted suicide should absolutely be available to certain people

Agreed.

Women always looking for attention.
smd

I have some comments about this, but I will refrain. In short, I agree with this too.