Police Power and Racial Tensions in Ferguson, Missouri

[One Brow]

If he was really high at the time of the incident, it could have had an effect on his behavior.

If he was high, sure. There mere presence of marijuana does not mean he was high, and there are no other indications he was.

Depressants like pot and alcohol affect people differently.

Pot is not a depressant. I agree it does affect some people differently.

I agree they should be tried and arrested, but how do you do that when it will only incite more violence?

So far, there has been no protest or violence following the arrest of various looters. I don't worry about unicorns or giant blue oxen.

It has to do where the protest will have the most exposure to make a change. Why protest at all if you are advocating change? If you think your neighborhood, comprised mostly of blacks, is being oppressed and violated by the white police force, what neighborhood should be you be looting and vandalizing?

Protests tend to congregate around the location of the perceived injustice. It's part of human nature.

Who said anything about a peaceful protest? Actual peaceful protests are actually more difficult for the police to stop.

This is very naive on your part.

When the violence occurs it gives the police carte blance to shut it down to protect the safety of everyone.

In wealthier neighborhoods, they already have carte blanche. Plus, how would these protests get organized non-locally, without local approval or assistance? If these protesters move to Clayton or Maryland Heights, they become a mob in the eyes of the locals.

This is more or less the status quo of these protests. Poor people destroying their neighborhoods. And the outside world doesn't care too much.

Agreed.

 

[One Brow]

He is probably assuming he is being shook down because of the robbery.

Spoken like someone who doesn't get hassled by police on a regular basis, for no particular reason.

Which would explain why he would do anything to escape. In his mind, he is going to jail for a long time.

Over $10 worth of cigarellos?

 

[Stoked]

You have a reason to believe Brown was armed? That he was a threat?

Why is this video relevant at all, except to tarnish the victim?

Over the years, I've seen stories of all sorts of people who were involved in these police raids, and no one cared. No one cared about Michael Brown, either, until the riots started. The notion that it was a black victim that triggered the press coverage is ignorant and fantastical.

No riots.

Armed? No

A threat? possibly

The video is relevant because it shows that Brown would have been thinking about it. I disagree with them just releasing the video like they did though. It should have been shown in any court proceedings to establish Brown's character and frame of mind at the time.

I agree that the riots amped up the attention that this story was getting (dramatically so) but I would argue that it is the wrong kind of attention. It serves to indirectly tarnish Michael Brown even further as people start associating Brown to these riots. It also brings in people like Al Sharpton. IMO all he does is make more people shut down and ignore the problem. At least I know that I personally have no interest in anything he says.

Edit: Also the arrests made by police are further fueling the tension and violence. This is proven to me by the escalation in violence. Such as the use of molotov cocktails, shootings and rocks being thrown at police. Those taking part in the violence can say whatever they want about the reasons but they have 0 credibility in my eyes. They ruined businesses, lives, property, the peaceful protests, the public and police opinions about the protests and tarnished this case even further. Shameful

 

[One Brow]

Others have already commented with the same incredulity that I'm feeling, so I'll just save my comment. That being said, would you mind explaining to me how you come to your answer? I'm not trolling, I sincerely want to know if I've missed something huge.

Basically, do you believe the guy who acknowledged a prior bad act and has nothing to gain or lose by lying (Johnson), or do you believe the guy who has been trained in the justification of lethal force and has everything to lose (Wilson)? I'm not saying there is conclusive evidence, but I know where I put my chips on that one.

 

[One Brow]

How dare white guys have opinions. Or even talk about a case that involves anyone not white.

How dare anyone point out that white people's opinions on a matter are not completely trustworthy and clear.[/sarcasm]

Really, white men get so damn sensitive about people pointing out their ignorance. No one said you weren't allowed an opinion.

 

[One Brow]

If a black cop shoots a white dude in similar circumstances it is not national news.

It wasn't national news when the white cop shot the black guy in Ferguson, either; nor was it news when there was a protest. What made it news was rioting.

 

[JAZZGASM]

Basically, do you believe the guy who acknowledged a prior bad act and has nothing to gain or lose by lying (Johnson), or do you believe the guy who has been trained in the justification of lethal force and has everything to lose (Wilson)? I'm not saying there is conclusive evidence, but I know where I put my chips on that one.

If both Brown and Johnson cooperated with hands up, why did Wilson let Johnson live and shoot Brown then? If you are going to commit murder, why leave a key witness to your crime?

 

[One Brow]

To sum things up from having barely skimmed the last 10 ages, it now appears evident that the deceased did in fact rob some store with some other guy by the last name Brown, if my memory is correct. The deceased did in fact go after the cop, whether it was to bumrush him or get his gun which the officer may or may have not been drawing. Now, the lunger is dead.

Is this accurate?

Johnson (the witness) acknowledges the robbery, but to my knowledge, is still saying that Brown was standing still with arms raised by being shot.

 

[Stoked]

How dare anyone point out that white people's opinions on a matter are not completely trustworthy and clear.

He was pissed of that a bunch of white guys were voicing their opinions on it at all. All opinions are not completely trustowrthy or clear. Regardless of the race of the opinion holder. This was more than that and for you to attempt to say otherwise is rather sad. A white mans opinion on it is no less valuable than a man of any other races opinion.

Also you mention regularly the systematic oppression suffered by minorities, particularly blacks, at the hands of police (we all know there are studies that show this, agreed). Wouldn't Michael Brown know this and wouldn't it affect his opinion and reactions to this police officer? Regardless of the value of the item he allegedly stole? Your comment about the cigaretts implies that he would ignore all of that and that it wouldn't affect his attitude. Maybe I am reading it wrong.

 

[cowhide]

I agree with you there, but that is just a piece of the oppression pie. That alone will not stop blacks from being oppressed. And many of the programs intended to help poor blacks (welfare, affirmative action, etc.) actually have the opposite effect.

Edit: no matter what is changed, poorer urban areas will always have more crime
So I think the arrest stats stay the same.

Welfare was setup up originally to help poor white people, blacks were not allowed to participate in welfare originally. Affirmative action was a direct result from Jim Crow laws and was an attempt to actually help minorities have opportunities that were still being derailed by whites even after the civil right laws.

 

[One Brow]

If a black cop ever shoots and kills a white person, I'd say that white person's entire life is being oppressed right to his death.

You have missed his point by so very, very much.

Also, if this was a black cop shooting a black person, again no story.

Rioting is always a story.

 

[candrew]

Well the Ferguson PD bought dashboard cameras but had not installed them yet at the time of the shooting.

LOL - no matter which side of the fence you fall on this issue that's a bit of a head scratcher.

Riot Gear - check
Smoke Grenade Launcher - check
KA-Bar Fighting Knives - check
Acoustic Riot Control Device - check
Armored Tactical Vehicles - check
12-Gauge Shot Guns - check
M4 Carbine - check
AR15 Rifles - check


Dashboard Cameras........wellll, we haven't quite gotten to that yet.

 

[One Brow]

How about when a woman gets shot and cops make up 95% of the police force. Gender oppression! OMG!

Women aren't regarded as being additionally threatening because they are female.

 

[Stoked]

LOL - no matter which side of the fence you fall on this issue that's a bit of a head scratcher.

Riot Gear - check
Smoke Grenade Launcher - check
KA-Bar Fighting Knives - check
Acoustic Riot Control Device - check
Armored Tactical Vehicles - check
12-Gauge Shot Guns - check
M4 Carbine - check
AR15 Rifles - check


.....Dashboard Cameras........wellll, we have quite gotten to that yet.

Right? I was wondering what the hell as well.

 

[JAZZGASM]

It wasn't national news when the white cop shot the black guy in Ferguson, either; nor was it news when there was a protest. What made it news was rioting.

The NY Times had articles up before the looting.

Contrast that with Dillon Taylor, a white kid shot in Utah in similar circumstances. There have been multiple protests, but no national coverage. I understand the riots gave it more attention, but it clearly had national news coverage prior to looting/violence.

 

[One Brow]

Some questions:

Are all cases involving a death where the people involved are different races a race issue or just this one?

Should white people be given an equal platform for opinions on race as any other race?

What is the goal, in your mind, for race relations and how should that goal be achieved?

Race, gender, orientation, identity, religion, etc., all play an intricate role in our personal identity, and thus play a role in every interaction we have with other people, whether we realize it or not. Every issue plays out differently for different races, genders, orientations, and identities.

White people already have the biggest platform. As to whether they should, it's liking asking whether non-Mormons (who already have the biggest platform) should be given an equal platform to Mormons when talking about the Mormon religion. Such a question would be insulting to the Mormons already denied an equal platform, as in indication that you think their platform should be further shrunk.

The current goal is getting people to listen without responding/defending/opposing.

 

[JAZZGASM]

Welfare was setup up originally to help poor white people, blacks were not allowed to participate in welfare originally. Affirmative action was a direct result from Jim Crow laws and was an attempt to actually help minorities have opportunities that were still being derailed by whites even after the civil right laws.

Yes, I understand that. I was speaking in current terms, programs intended to help the oppressed have the opposite effect.

 

[One Brow]

Yeah, I think my "give a damn" about these thing was busted for good when the media had to invent the term "White Hispanic" in order to make the narrative for George Zimmerman work.

I agree. Zimmerman was white, period.

Any time Sharpton or Jackson show up and are welcomed, I just don't care anymore, because nobody is interested in the truth.

How nice for you that you can decide for large groups of people who does and does not speak to their interests.

It pisses me off that the first Black president is an effete Alinskyite and not a true disciple of MLK.

Well, the white man has come down to tell us who the true disciples of MLK are! Thank goodness, it was so confusing before you showed up.[/sarcasm]

 

[One Brow]

I'm sure the black community, who, judging by my white-bread upbringing, notoriously have worn the slogan "**** the police" around their culture like some sort of Medal of Honor, are lining up to fill out job applications with the police department.

But what the **** would I know about it, I'm just a dumb white guy after all.

Exactly, you don't know much about it at all.

 

[Stoked]

Race, gender, orientation, identity, religion, etc., all play an intricate role in our personal identity, and thus play a role in every interaction we have with other people, whether we realize it or not. Every issue plays out differently for different races, genders, orientations, and identities.

White people already have the biggest platform. As to whether they should, it's liking asking whether non-Mormons (who already have the biggest platform) should be given an equal platform to Mormons when talking about the Mormon religion. Such a question would be insulting to the Mormons already denied an equal platform, as in indication that you think their platform should be further shrunk.

The current goal is getting people to listen without responding/defending/opposing.

If it is asked in good faith, with an honest attempt at good dialouge, then any offense they take is on them and not the one asking the question. They'd be better served calmly explaining why it is offensive then attacking. Use it to teach not destroy.

I absolutely agree that "Race, gender, orientation, identity, religion" plays a role in the opinions held by any individual.

I didn't ask if whites should have the biggest platform and you know it. Intellectually dishonest.

If your goal is "... getting people to listen without responding/defending/opposing" then you showed a poor display here.

Should whites have the same size platform as other races? Yes or no? If the answer is no then I feel sorry for you. If the answer is yes then wouldn't it mae more sense to build up any platforms (I'd say they are the minority platforms) that are smaller instead of tearing down the largest platform? That is what I see being done. That doesn't solve anything. All it does is further the tension imo.