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North Korea rejects torpedo findings, threatens war

Slappfisk said:
There is a precedent for it though isn't there?

USS Stark was attacked by the Iraqi's in 1987 and USS Liberty was attacked by the Israeli's in 1967.

Both a Democratic and Republican president allowed such an act to slide with only a token response.

Mind you, as you mentioned in the current political environment Obama could not afford to act as all the nutters would be frothing at the mouth for revenge regardless of the consequences.
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+1 to you for being well informed.

As for the USS Stark: well clearly Ronald Reagan hated America. :)

Seriously though, it sounds like that may have been an accident and it's unclear whether it was an authorized attack. Obviously it was a tragedy given that people died, but if there was no intent to attack then I can understand the desire to not escalate the conflict. Starting a war probably wouldn't have been productive.

Similarlyth e USS Liberty inquiry concluded it was a case of mistaken identity. Not productive to respond with military action.

Essentially, I'm saying that if it was clear that North Korea attacked us and they meant to attack us that the President would respond with military force of some kind. Suggestions that he'd wring his hands and try to start a U.N. Resolution are not only absurdly unfounded but are emblematic as to why this country is presently unable to govern itself in a civilized manner.
 
Sirkickyass said:
Come on guys, you can't seriously be suggesting that the President would be completely ok with a foreign power attacking the U.S. military. What an absurdly radicalized position.
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I never said he would be completely OK with it. I just question what he would actually do about it.

Personally, my initial reaction would be to blow something up in NK but realistically I think it would start a chain reaction of horrendous consequences. I'm not sure it would be the best or preferrable option.

I suspect that within the next 50 years, if not sooner, the two Koreas will re-unify and become one again. That is if the nutcase running the looney bin to the north doesn't do something stupid first.
 
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Sirkickyass said:
+1 to you for being well informed.

Starting a war probably wouldn't have been productive.

Similarlyth e USS Liberty inquiry concluded it was a case of mistaken identity. Not productive to respond with military action.
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Yep, it was not in the national interest to create a conflict where none existed. Additionally both countries were members of the good lads club. Israel for being Israel and Iraq for fighting Iran.

I find it laughable that conspiracy loonies out there think the the torpedoing was a false flag attack on the part of the US and South Korea.

Neither country has any interest in fighting North Korea. The US army is exhausted from nearly ten years of constant operations in the middle east. The US economically has no wish to commit itself to a third front. Even less wish to enter into a protracted conventional war in Asia.

The South Koreans are fearful of what happens to Seoul. Have a lot more to lose than the North Koreans and are not excited by the prospect of winning a war that leaves them integrating an economic disaster that will take decades to correct.

What makes this intriguing is that if a small US warship like the USS Stark was attacked or sunk by the North Koreana, Obama would be in a lot of trouble.

The rational thing would be to find a way to let it slide rather risk causing a war with nothing to be won and only things to lose. Yet, domestically he will have to appear tough and resolute or the right wing will be besides themselves with rage, despite the fact that even the smallest provocation could push the North Koreans over the edge and into war. A war with dire consequences for the US and South Korea.

Further illustration of how nutty the political landscape in the US has become. For many people, backing your guy or attacking the other guy takes precedence over what is best for the nation.
 
Marcus said:
I never said he would be completely OK with it. I just question what he would actually do about it.

.
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This. He wouldnt be ok with it. Or, at least, he would act like he is outraged. All while introducing some 'serious' resolutions, and asking whose *** he needs to kick.
 
Scorpjazz said:
This. He wouldnt be ok with it. Or, at least, he would act like he is outraged. All while introducing some 'serious' resolutions, and asking whose *** he needs to kick.
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So you'd be upset if Obama didn't immediately bomb North Korea if that happened? To hell with Seoul and all?
 
Why is Obama being looked at as some anti-war weak president?

last I checked Afghanistan and Iraq are still rocking and rolling. Has peace broken out there? Or is there still violence and bloodshed?

Military defense spending has increased. We have more troops in Afghanistan than ever. We're still building aircraft carriers, jets, and bombs.

Ummmmmm so what exactly has Obama done to make it sound like he's some weak flower power child? Is it the START treaty that even Colin Powell supports?

Please, enlighten me. And please, don't bring that whole bowing down to the Saudi prince crap up again. Bush made out with him so don't even start that.
 
Gameface said:
People aren't aware of this fact, I don't think. PRNK can pretty much flatten a major world city in an hour or so. The Seoul metro area has 24 million people in it. I think a war between North and South Korea would result in the worst tragedy in human history. People wonder why we picked on Iraq and seem more focused on Iran than the PRNK. The reason is because the PRNK can kill so many people so quickly. Seoul is a hostage to this political tension.
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As is Japan, from what I've heard. My friend once told me that every few months NK fools around like they're going to attack Japan. Most people know that there's nothing to it. However, it is a pretty scary reminder of what could happen...
 
The Thriller said:
As is Japan, from what I've heard. My friend once told me that every few months NK fools around like they're going to attack Japan. Most people know that there's nothing to it. However, it is a pretty scary reminder of what could happen...
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Your friend is wrong. The Japanese see North Korea as China - which is probably the correct interpretation. Both of the Koreas are more or less puppet states. And obviously there are few hatreds greater than the Japanese/Chinese rivalry. Personally, I think it's because Japanese women collectively are much much better looking than their Chinese counterparts, but that's just me.

That North Korean missile from earlier this year was confirmed a German creation by Janes. Doesn't mean that North Korea didn't fire it, but it certainly shouldn't be concluded that North Korea actually fired that missile just because the US says so. Everyone needs to remember that Lee Myung-bak is a war monger. He is cut from the same cloth as the US Neocons. In his perfect world, they would attack North Korea tomorrow. Anything that would give him a pretext to do so should be looked on with suspicion. Nobody is running from that fight. The US doesn't want to fight China - correct - at least not yet.

However, this whole Middle Eastern conflagration is about getting China/Russia to fight Iran. The US is trying to push the Taliban into Pakistan to create major instability over there - that's the first mission. The drone strikes that are happening right now are to clear the border area so there won't be much resistance and the Taliban can move into Islamabad more easily and help get rid of that government. After that happens, the US will false flag China/Russia and who knows what happens after that.
 
The Thriller said:
Why is Obama being looked at as some anti-war weak president?

last I checked Afghanistan and Iraq are still rocking and rolling. Has peace broken out there? Or is there still violence and bloodshed?

Military defense spending has increased. We have more troops in Afghanistan than ever. We're still building aircraft carriers, jets, and bombs.

Ummmmmm so what exactly has Obama done to make it sound like he's some weak flower power child? Is it the START treaty that even Colin Powell supports?

Please, enlighten me. And please, don't bring that whole bowing down to the Saudi prince crap up again. Bush made out with him so don't even start that.
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The US will never have another president that isn't a war monger. These guys don't run anything. Barak watches ESPN all day, goes on vacations, and reads teleprompters. I know liberals hate to hear it because many of them still believe he is a genius, but there really is nothing to the guy. He couldn't lead a pack of ducks across the street.
 
I've believed this for a long time now, and it bears repeating: I think the most likely place WWIII could break out is in the Korean peninsula. Kim Jong Il doesn't seem to have the same instinct for self-preservation that Ahmadinejad has. At least that's the sense I get out of him.

Hopefully cooler heads will prevail.
 
Duck Rodgers said:
The US will never have another president that isn't a war monger. These guys don't run anything. Barak watches ESPN all day, goes on vacations, and reads teleprompters. I know liberals hate to hear it because many of them still believe he is a genius, but there really is nothing to the guy. He couldn't lead a pack of ducks across the street.
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I believe the correct word is herd.
 
chemdude1232 said:
I've believed this for a long time now, and it bears repeating: I think the most likely place WWIII could break out is in the Korean peninsula. Kim Jong Il doesn't seem to have the same instinct for self-preservation that Ahmadinejad has. At least that's the sense I get out of him.

Hopefully cooler heads will prevail.
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I disagree. China is turning faster than US media gives them credit for IMO. I think they support the communist revolution shared in common with N. Korea pretty much in name only anymore. I also don't understand why Sino-US relations are so terrible following WWII. China should be the largest supporter of US efforts after we reigned Japan in. And the US could be more trusting. We just pulled Russia into NATO. I think China follows in one way or another. N. Korea is done when that happens. Unified Korea is a game changer. But of course there are those who would find a reason to hate the U.S.A. no matter what actions we take in regards to N. Korea.
 
franklin said:
I disagree. China is turning faster than US media gives them credit for IMO. I think they support the communist revolution shared in common with N. Korea pretty much in name only anymore. I also don't understand why Sino-US relations are so terrible following WWII. China should be the largest supporter of US efforts after we reigned Japan in. And the US could be more trusting. We just pulled Russia into NATO. I think China follows in one way or another. N. Korea is done when that happens. Unified Korea is a game changer. But of course there are those who would find a reason to hate the U.S.A. no matter what actions we take in regards to N. Korea.
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Chinese history and culture, regardless of political ideology, give high points for taking a long-term view of things. Unlike our American lack of patience and lack of concern for our long-term prosperity.

Just ask Dr. Sun Yat Sen about what happened. China had long been fighting a civil war between the communists and the status quo. The United States allowed the communists to prevail with critical decisions that adversely impacted the traditional government. Once the communists on the mainland had control, they believed the US would likewise just fold over the Korea issue.

It is a mistake for us to assume that the Chinese will respond in our interests instead of their own.
 
I just watched the Vice Guide documentary about NK. White guy goes there and gives a great look around the country. Highly recommend it.
 
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