Jazz cancelled my family's season tickets after 36 years.

[Witty Username]

The more I read about this, and how the meeting went, I'm just perplexed. I can see the initial frustration by the ticket holder family. Then, I became even more confused when GMiller signed on to do some PR and damage control, and then my mind went into a full fifth dimensional bizarro land when, after glossing over the estimation of the meeting, that GMiller basically just sat there to explain and defend the ticket policies. My guess is that he wanted to show fans he seemed like he had a clue on how various aspects of the business are ran. Okay Greg? You set up an obviously distinguished visit to offer them retail price in another spot, what in the hell is that about? I'm sure some classy goon could've done that. Comes off as condescending and petty, and is the very least of what I would've expected considering the timeline of how long they were season ticket holders and the initial response by Greg.

What a chowder head.

 

[♪alt13]

@gmiller

SLC hosting the FIBA World Cup would be cool.

 

[sirkickyass]

My Uncle reported that Greg was surprisingly attentive for the entire meeting and took 2-3 pages of notes based upon items that they spoke about. My uncle had the owner in the room so he decided to get on him about hobby horses that all fans want to talk about: The Hayward Contract, not firing Corbin fast enough, drafting Dante Exum, the CBA, etc etc.

Some stuff on this in quick hits form before I forget:

Hayward Contract: Greg said something along the lines of that the team got boxed into a bad position regarding having to pay Gordon the max because of how Gordon's contract negotiation had gone over the previous season. On the subject of whether Hayward was "worth" the max Greg said that he believed that the team's system didn't play to Gordon's strengths and he was optimistic that Quinn Snyder would be able to maximize Gordon's talents. My uncle and Greg agreed that everyone would know pretty definitively if the contract was a mistake or not by about March.

Corbin: My uncle expressed that he didn't mind that the team lost a lot. He was upset that the team didn't play its core five young players together as much as possible. Specifically my uncle objected to a season spent watching Richard Jefferson play a lot (this apparently made Greg laugh). Greg indicated that he was philosophically against trying to tell the coach how to coach from the front office because then, if the team remained unsuccessful, the coach could easily just turn around and blame him and it becomes difficult to evaluate a coach's performance when you're also giving him instruction from above. Specifically, Greg indicated that he didn't want to be Jerry Jones.

Dante Exum: This was relayed to me as "50% chance he's a bust, 50% chance he's a superstar." Greg knows this is a dice roll. Greg is also apparently very high on Rodney Hood.

 

[Dr. Jones]

^Good stuff, tink.. thanks for taking the time to share.

 

[Tarkanian]

Sirkickyass's uncle rulez (for having the guts to convey a fan's viewpoint).
Buy him a beer or something,
Please extend best regards from his middle eastern Brethren :.

I've been on the fence with my opinion of Greg Miller (not a hater, but not a homer either)...this changes things. You can count me in as a Greg Miller homer now. Very classy. Probably the only owner in the NBA that would do something like this.

This.
He really could have ignored this, easily!
Jazzfanz should appreciate and support Greg Miller.

 

[The Midnight]

Some stuff on this in quick hits form before I forget:

Hayward Contract: Greg said something along the lines of that the team got boxed into a bad position regarding having to pay Gordon the max because of how Gordon's contract negotiation had gone over the previous season. On the subject of whether Hayward was "worth" the max Greg said that he believed that the team's system didn't play to Gordon's strengths and he was optimistic that Quinn Snyder would be able to maximize Gordon's talents. My uncle and Greg agreed that everyone would know pretty definitively if the contract was a mistake or not by about March.

Corbin: My uncle expressed that he didn't mind that the team lost a lot. He was upset that the team didn't play its core five young players together as much as possible. Specifically my uncle objected to a season spent watching Richard Jefferson play a lot (this apparently made Greg laugh). Greg indicated that he was philosophically against trying to tell the coach how to coach from the front office because then, if the team remained unsuccessful, the coach could easily just turn around and blame him and it becomes difficult to evaluate a coach's performance when you're also giving him instruction from above. Specifically, Greg indicated that he didn't want to be Jerry Jones.

Dante Exum: This was relayed to me as "50% chance he's a bust, 50% chance he's a superstar." Greg knows this is a dice roll. Greg is also apparently very high on Rodney Hood.

SOLID response from Greg here. Can't fault it.


Except that I didn't think the process in hiring Corbin was done right in the first place... he was the 3rd assistant and just got the job at the drop of a hat. Glad Lindsey has turned it around and got what seems like a solid hire in Quin who by all account was instrumental to Hawks' turn around last year.

 

[fishonjazz]

Some stuff on this in quick hits form before I forget:

Hayward Contract: Greg said something along the lines of that the team got boxed into a bad position regarding having to pay Gordon the max because of how Gordon's contract negotiation had gone over the previous season. On the subject of whether Hayward was "worth" the max Greg said that he believed that the team's system didn't play to Gordon's strengths and he was optimistic that Quinn Snyder would be able to maximize Gordon's talents. My uncle and Greg agreed that everyone would know pretty definitively if the contract was a mistake or not by about March.

Corbin: My uncle expressed that he didn't mind that the team lost a lot. He was upset that the team didn't play its core five young players together as much as possible. Specifically my uncle objected to a season spent watching Richard Jefferson play a lot (this apparently made Greg laugh). Greg indicated that he was philosophically against trying to tell the coach how to coach from the front office because then, if the team remained unsuccessful, the coach could easily just turn around and blame him and it becomes difficult to evaluate a coach's performance when you're also giving him instruction from above. Specifically, Greg indicated that he didn't want to be Jerry Jones.

Dante Exum: This was relayed to me as "50% chance he's a bust, 50% chance he's a superstar." Greg knows this is a dice roll. Greg is also apparently very high on Rodney Hood.

^Good stuff, tink.. thanks for taking the time to share.

This

Except that I didn't think the process in hiring Corbin was done right in the first place... he was the 3rd assistant and just got the job at the drop of a hat.

I honestly think corbins skin color had something to do with it. Utah is seen as too white to the rest of the country... I think Corbin being hired was an attempt to change that perception. Big fail

 

[Deleted member 848]

Firmly on the Greg Miller fanbus

 

[Fishsticks]

This


I honestly think corbins skin color had something to do with it. Utah is seen as too white to the rest of the country... I think Corbin being hired was an attempt to change that perception. Big fail

?
....I remember Corbin at the time was a strong candidate for multiple positions. There was a time when he was thought of as young up and coming coach. I seriously doubt the Jazz said this dudes black make him the coach. Didn't happen. I'm also sure Sloan vouched For him making the decision an easy one for the millers during a tumultuous time for the franchise.

 

[fishonjazz]

?
....I remember Corbin at the time was a strong candidate for multiple positions. There was a time when he was thought of as young up and coming coach. I seriously doubt the Jazz said this dudes black make him the coach. Didn't happen. I'm also sure Sloan vouched For him making the decision an easy one for the millers during a tumultuous time for the franchise.

Idk, I always thought hornacek would be better to get the job.

 

[Julie Greengiant]

Idk, I always thought hornacek would be better to get the job.

there was a poll before jerry left that had corbin as the top assistant in the league according to league execs and coaches. he was a pretty hot name at the time.

 

[nightmare3983]

?
....I remember Corbin at the time was a strong candidate for multiple positions. There was a time when he was thought of as young up and coming coach. I seriously doubt the Jazz said this dudes black make him the coach. Didn't happen. I'm also sure Sloan vouched For him making the decision an easy one for the millers during a tumultuous time for the franchise.

IIRC Corbin interviewed for the Sonics' job that ultimately went to PJ Carlesimo. I agree with the bolded part. The biggest mistake to me is that the Jazz didn't make Corbin the interim head coach and conduct a wide search the following off season. There was no need to sign him to a multi-year deal right away.

 

[sirkickyass]

?
....I remember Corbin at the time was a strong candidate for multiple positions. There was a time when he was thought of as young up and coming coach. I seriously doubt the Jazz said this dudes black make him the coach. Didn't happen. I'm also sure Sloan vouched For him making the decision an easy one for the millers during a tumultuous time for the franchise.

This is true. To be honest he might still be an up and coming coach. Virtually all of the guys we think of as big name coaches failed at their first stop.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

This is true. To be honest he might still be an up and coming coach. Virtually all of the guys we think of as big name coaches failed at their first stop.

Go ahead and name names, because my gut tells me that this isn't true. And on a related note, I will be stunned if Corbin ever becomes anything close to a big name coach.

I think most of the great coaches have that "it" factor from the very start. And I'm sure I will get slammed for this, but I never thought Jerry Sloan was a great coach.

 

[The Midnight]

IIRC Corbin interviewed for the Sonics' job that ultimately went to PJ Carlesimo. I agree with the bolded part. The biggest mistake to me is that the Jazz didn't make Corbin the interim head coach and conduct a wide search the following off season. There was no need to sign him to a multi-year deal right away.

This.


It was such a big surprise to me for an organisation as big and as well run as the Jazz to give him the multi-year deal without at least seeing what's available. Granted Corbin had interviewed with many team, but he wasn't hired by any of them yet neither.

 

[BTP]

This is true. To be honest he might still be an up and coming coach. Virtually all of the guys we think of as big name coaches failed at their first stop.

First NBA head coaching gig:
Philip Jackson - Chicago Bulls
Doc Rivers - Orlando, was COTY in his first season
Tom Thibodeau - Chicago Bulls, COTY year 1, tied the win record for first year coaches
Gregg Popovich - San Antonio Spurs
Jeff Hornacek - Phoenix Suns


I think Corbin's failure has to do with his system. He played so many flex sets which depend too much on a very good point guard, which the Jazz didn't have for multiple seasons.
Also flex sets have really been limited in output, since everybody in the league trys to play Thibodeau's "2.9 Defense", which piloted successfully in Boston and got taken to another level in Chicago.

Coincidentally, I think Thibodeau's system is what may hinder Derrick Rose to live up to his hype. Since his knee injury the teams have really transformed their defenses to 2.9-style which really limits the effectiveness of Rose's strengths(avoiding contact, absorbing contact, drawing fouls) because these type of defenses have a lot of mechanisms that deny full penetration to the hoop.
And it's what really helps Dragic shine and a declining Chris Paul stay significant, because they control the midrange game.

Take for example a team like the Toronto Raptors of last year:
PG Lowry(Good 3 point shooter, very good passer, mediocre around the basket)
SG DeRozan(Improving, but still below average shooter, very good slasher,astonishingly good ballhandler, surprisingly good passer)
SF Terrence Ross(Skinny, streaky shooter, still efficient overall as a shooter)
PF Amir Johnson(Range until the free throw line, okay in a lot categories, good at timing his rolls to the basket, sees holes which help the ball handler make basic passes)
C Valanciunas(Can Dunk, improving, but still below avg touch around the basket, good rolling to the basket, good at setting screens)

So this team basically has 2 guys that can shoot. How the heck did they become a top3 regular season team after trading Gay?

They develop everything around Horns. Horns forces way more defensive decision making and rotations, and the angles it creates allow dribble penetration on multiple layers. These rotations create confusion in 2.9 defenses because they force more decisions and that includes a higher likelihood that mistakes are made and player are open.
This team basically has Johnson who can pop out for elbow Js and that's not good spacing, but because it includes so many multi layered screens, it allows your PG to make easy decisions and see the best out if he knows how to pace his dribble and work with hesitation.

The Jazz had just as good personnel with 1 exception, their coach was just brainwashed and didn't realize his system isn't working any longer without an elite PG and guys that really know how to move w/o the ball. He failed to fit his system towards his players strengths and that's why Corbin's coaching was miserable.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

First NBA head coaching gig:
Philip Jackson - Chicago Bulls
Doc Rivers - Orlando, was COTY in his first season
Tom Thibodeau - Chicago Bulls, COTY year 1, tied the win record for first year coaches
Gregg Popovich - San Antonio Spurs
Jeff Hornacek - Phoenix Suns


I think Corbin's failure has to do with his system. He played so many flex sets which depend too much on a very good point guard, which the Jazz didn't have for multiple seasons.
Also flex sets have really been limited in output, since everybody in the league trys to play Thibodeau's "2.9 Defense", which piloted successfully in Boston and got taken to another level in Chicago.

Coincidentally, I think Thibodeau's system is what may hinder Derrick Rose to live up to his hype. Since his knee injury the teams have really transformed their defenses to 2.9-style which really limits the effectiveness of Rose's strengths(avoiding contact, absorbing contact, drawing fouls) because these type of defenses have a lot of mechanisms that deny full penetration to the hoop.
And it's what really helps Dragic shine and a declining Chris Paul stay significant, because they control the midrange game.

Take for example a team like the Toronto Raptors of last year:
PG Lowry(Good 3 point shooter, very good passer, mediocre around the basket)
SG DeRozan(Improving, but still below average shooter, very good slasher,astonishingly good ballhandler, surprisingly good passer)
SF Terrence Ross(Skinny, streaky shooter, still efficient overall as a shooter)
PF Amir Johnson(Range until the free throw line, okay in a lot categories, good at timing his rolls to the basket, sees holes which help the ball handler make basic passes)
C Valanciunas(Can Dunk, improving, but still below avg touch around the basket, good rolling to the basket, good at setting screens)

So this team basically has 2 guys that can shoot. How the heck did they become a top3 regular season team after trading Gay?

They develop everything around Horns. Horns forces way more defensive decision making and rotations, and the angles it creates allow dribble penetration on multiple layers. These rotations create confusion in 2.9 defenses because they force more decisions and that includes a higher likelihood that mistakes are made and player are open.
This team basically has Johnson who can pop out for elbow Js and that's not good spacing, but because it includes so many multi layered screens, it allows your PG to make easy decisions and see the best out if he knows how to pace his dribble and work with hesitation.

The Jazz had just as good personnel with 1 exception, their coach was just brainwashed and didn't realize his system isn't working any longer without an elite PG and guys that really know how to move w/o the ball. He failed to fit his system towards his players strengths and that's why Corbin's coaching was miserable.

What does Horns mean? A nickname for Valancunias?

 

[BTP]

What does Horns mean? A nickname for Valancunias?

I guess it's a troll. In case it's not or if anyone else is interested...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erA6cW6F4-I

 

[Stifle Tower]

So getting back to the topic, let me see if I have this straight...

A relative of the offended party, who just happens to be an attorney, makes a post excoriating Greg Miller and the heartless folks in the season ticket office. Several posters jump on the bandwagon. After all, it was such a cruel thing to do to a family that had just lost its patriarch. Only problem is this attorney had failed to get all the facts straight: the call was not made after his grandfather's death. It was made the day before. So what, then, was the original issue? The uncles could have renewed in the grandfather's name; he was still alive. Or did they miss a deadline?

Greg Miller himself then posts on the board and gives out the number of a subordinate he has assigned to the issue. A week passes. The uncles fail to follow up. Greg Miller, who I'm sure is a much busier man, is the one who keeps the issue on the front burner and follows up. Finally a call is made and a meeting arranged. At the meeting, Greg offers to give the uncle season tickets at the original price. Wasn't this the original problem - i.e. the uncles were losing their right to buy the season tickets the grandfather had?

The uncle refuses, claiming he has been damaged because other parties who would have split the cost have found alternative sources. Ummm, by my account, this process took just over a week between the time the uncle was informed he would lose the seats and the time Greg made his offer. Furthermore, one week of that delay was ENTIRELY the fault of sirkicky's uncle for not calling the contact number Greg Miller had provided. Sorry, this whole incident reeks of a shakedown by the uncle to just have Greg back down and give him some freebies for his troubles.

Kudos to Mr. Miller for explaining the ticket policies and for standing his ground. I've been critical of Greg quite a few times on this board. This time, I applaud him. It's not often a CEO would take so much time out of his schedule to deal with an issue this minor. BY all rights, he probably should have just left the issue to the head of the ticket office and maybe a more minor member of the Jazz front office.

 

[The Midnight]

So getting back to the topic, let me see if I have this straight...

A relative of the offended party, who just happens to be an attorney, makes a post excoriating Greg Miller and the heartless folks in the season ticket office. Several posters jump on the bandwagon. After all, it was such a cruel thing to do to a family that had just lost its patriarch. Only problem is this attorney had failed to get all the facts straight: the call was not made after his grandfather's death. It was made the day before. So what, then, was the original issue? The uncles could have renewed in the grandfather's name; he was still alive. Or did they miss a deadline?

Greg Miller himself then posts on the board and gives out the number of a subordinate he has assigned to the issue. A week passes. The uncles fail to follow up. Greg Miller, who I'm sure is a much busier man, is the one who keeps the issue on the front burner and follows up. Finally a call is made and a meeting arranged. At the meeting, Greg offers to give the uncle season tickets at the original price. Wasn't this the original problem - i.e. the uncles were losing their right to buy the season tickets the grandfather had?

The uncle refuses, claiming he has been damaged because other parties who would have split the cost have found alternative sources. Ummm, by my account, this process took just over a week between the time the uncle was informed he would lose the seats and the time Greg made his offer. Furthermore, one week of that delay was ENTIRELY the fault of sirkicky's uncle for not calling the contact number Greg Miller had provided. Sorry, this whole incident reeks of a shakedown by the uncle to just have Greg back down and give him some freebies for his troubles.

Kudos to Mr. Miller for explaining the ticket policies and for standing his ground. I've been critical of Greg quite a few times on this board. This time, I applaud him. It's not often a CEO would take so much time out of his schedule to deal with an issue this minor. BY all rights, he probably should have just left the issue to the head of the ticket office and maybe a more minor member of the Jazz front office.

This is the funniest part of this whole episode. A CEO of a multi-billion dollar EMPIRE has to follow up on an issue on an internet message board no less!!!!