Graphic video released of police killing another black man in cold blood

[One Brow]

Dont worry I am sure those super racism fighters jesse jackson and al sharpton are cooling everything down

oh wait, they only fan the flames of hatred for their own agenda

Thank you for your display of ignorance; we all understand that better now.

 

[One Brow]

How do you define and quantify "more violent"? Is it possible they are no different than ever yet due to our connected society we just know about more of it than before? I would like to see some statistics showing police violence today vs the 60's, let's say.

You have a good point. Of course, the early 60s were before the MIranda case and other cases that codified so many rights for citizens, so I expect violence was probably even greater then. Perhaps a comparison with the 1980s. Then again, we'd have to use police reports to conduct such a study. I'll look around a little before AI say that again.

This makes me think of child abduction. If you look at the statistics child abduction has not changed at all in like 40 years. Nearly exactly the same stats. But if you ask people they will tell you that it is a terrible problem that is getting worse, even to the point of people stepping in and calling CPS and/or trying to parent for you if you let your kid go somewhere unattended. So the fact that we see every single child abduction in real time has made people think it is worse when really it is exactly the same as it was when you or I were children. Are police suffering from the same bias?

Possibly. Even here, though, one difference is that child abductors are prosecuted, police are more likely to be protected.

 

[Getting Traded]

Guys, I have the lowdown on the shooting I live in Ohio, not far from where it took place. So, I did a little research and learned some interesting facts you won't find in the newspapers. I also did an analysis of the video after watching the shooting part numerous times. And what I have to tell you, you're not going to like.

First of all, if you listen closely -- depending on which video you saw -- you can hear the cops give a warning. However, the shooting occurred about a second or even less after they shouted put it down, or so it sounds like that's what they said (approximately 8:26:55 / 8:26:56 for the warning / shot times). Crawford barely had time to turn his head to see them. And he runs off after he is hit but then turns back towards the cops and falls and goes into shock.

Second, the prosecutor picked an all-white Grand Jury

Third, only one of the cops fired his rifle (they had automatic assault rifles)

Fourth, Crawford never pointed his unloaded b-b gun at anyone.

 

[One Brow]

Guys, I have the lowdown on the shooting I live in Ohio, not far from where it took place. So, I did a little research and learned some interesting facts you won't find in the newspapers. I also did an analysis of the video after watching the shooting part numerous times. And what I have to tell you, you're not going to like.

First of all, if you listen closely -- depending on which video you saw -- you can hear the cops give a warning. However, the shooting occurred about a second or even less after they shouted put it down, or so it sounds like that's what they said (approximately 8:26:55 / 8:26:56 for the warning / shot times). Crawford barely had time to turn his head to see them. And he runs off after he is hit but then turns back towards the cops and falls and goes into shock.

Second, the prosecutor picked an all-white Grand Jury

Third, only one of the cops fired his rifle (they had automatic assault rifles)

Fourth, Crawford never pointed his unloaded b-b gun at anyone.

If you have a link to a video with sound, I would like to watch it.

 

[LogGrad98]

Yep. That's why I offered the additional information.



I don't think he did. To my eyes, he was trying to run and stumbled.

I watched it again and it definitely looks like he reached for the gun. I guess we will never know because he can't tell us what he was doing, but man was that at bad move, either way. He would have been a million times better off to just lay there at that point.

 

[One Brow]

He would have been a million times better off to just lay there at that point.

I agree. However, I have heard that sometimes, when you have been shot, and particularly when you have been surprised and then shot, you aren't really thinking rationally.

 

[Stoked]

I agree. However, I have heard that sometimes, when you have been shot, and particularly when you have been surprised and then shot, you aren't really thinking rationally.

Different people react differently under the same situation. So take 100 people and shoot them and you will probably get 100 different responses.

Having said that at that point I understand the police decision to fire again. He was already shot and then he went back for what they thought was a gun.

The potential problem, I have not seent he video, is the initial contact that lead to the initial shots fired.

 

[One Brow]

I would agree that, whether or not he was reaching for the gun after being shot, it's reasonable the police officer could have interpreted his actions that way.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

So, when they initially shot at him he was waving a gun around?

Sorry, I haven't watched the video nor read the story (nor will I), but I just want to know the point you are trying to make here.

He was standing at the end of an aisle in the corner of the store talking on his cell phone and mindlessly waving the bb gun around the way you might idly play with any other item if it just happens to be in your hands while your mind is on something else. It was mostly pointed at the ground and at the shelves in front of him. He never pointed it toward anybody, and no one would have really cared... except that it could easily be mistaken for a real gun.

I can imagine why someone who saw him behaving the way he was might jump to the conclusion that he was a shooter. It was prudent and correct of that person to clear the area and call 911 (though I haven't heard what they said on their call). In my view, the major problem occurred when the police stormed into the building and fired shots before pausing to assess the situation (was anyone at risk of injury, etc.) or asking any questions.

 

[Getting Traded]

I watched it again and it definitely looks like he reached for the gun. I guess we will never know because he can't tell us what he was doing, but man was that at bad move, either way. He would have been a million times better off to just lay there at that point.

He was only shot once -- the first shot hit him with two bullets as it was an automatic rifle. At least, this is what I was told by a lady who works for the county in Beavercreek and whose son is a police officer. It did look like he might've been shot a second time when he came back, but this is not what I was told. Plus, you don't hear any shots after that first pop. And yes, it looked like he was reaching back for the gun but for what purpose? It was a b-b gun and unloaded.

 

[Getting Traded]

Link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9FtNOV6Qhk

 

[Getting Traded]

Different people react differently under the same situation. So take 100 people and shoot them and you will probably get 100 different responses.

Having said that at that point I understand the police decision to fire again. He was already shot and then he went back for what they thought was a gun.

The potential problem, I have not seent he video, is the initial contact that lead to the initial shots fired.

Yes, he was already shot. But what puzzled me was that he was able to get up. Was it because the damage of the shot or shots hadn't registered? I don't know much about what happens when you get shot, never having been shot. But within a second or two after getting back up, he fell back and went into convulsions (note his body shaking). Did he fall back because he got shot again? Hard to tell. But you don't hear another pop, do you, or does anybody?

 

[dodo]

Man, what an injustice. First, an officer murders him, then the officer is NOT indicted so no repercussions for him. Third, the caller who made 911 call clearly made false statements regarding this guy posing a threat gets off the hook. At the end, all the family gets is "well, **** happens".

 

[Getting Traded]

He was standing at the end of an aisle in the corner of the store talking on his cell phone and mindlessly waving the bb gun around the way you might idly play with any other item if it just happens to be in your hands while your mind is on something else. It was mostly pointed at the ground and at the shelves in front of him. He never pointed it toward anybody, and no one would have really cared... except that it could easily be mistaken for a real gun.

I can imagine why someone who saw him behaving the way he was might jump to the conclusion that he was a shooter. It was prudent and correct of that person to clear the area and call 911 (though I haven't heard what they said on their call). In my view, the major problem occurred when the police stormed into the building and fired shots before pausing to assess the situation (was anyone at risk of injury, etc.) or asking any questions.

The 911 caller was inflammatory, said Crawford was pointing the gun at kids, said it looked to him like he was loading the gun ... really stupid. He in part was responsible for what happened.

 

[Stoked]

Yes, he was already shot. But what puzzled me was that he was able to get up. Was it because the damage of the shot or shots hadn't registered? I don't know much about what happens when you get shot, never having been shot. But within a second or two after getting back up, he fell back and went into convulsions (note his body shaking). Did he fall back because he got shot again? Hard to tell. But you don't hear another pop, do you, or does anybody?

I have not watched the video. I thought it was said in here that he was shot and then reached for the gun/toy and got shot again as a result.

 

[dodo]

I have not watched the video. I thought it was said in here that he was shot and then reached for the gun/toy and got shot again as a result.

That YouTube link Eenie-Meenie posted above is condensed 1:30 version of the events. He is shot as soon as officers burst in.

 

[Hotdog]

In your experience, as a white man, it's over-exaggerated. It's amazing how easily white men think that their experience is the only relevant experience.

There you go again lumping all white people together in a conversation I don't get it. How is that not racism? How do you feel comfortable with doing that? When talking about this, I try not lump any race in one group. You clearly have that Bankrupt mindset that it's ok to lump all white people together but not any other race.

Did you want some reward for not being a jerk or for treating people equally? What do you think you deserve for that?

No, I just want people people to stop blaming me for something just because of my skin color.

My point was that plenty of white people have tried hard to help with the civil rights of black people. Black people didn't free themselves all by themselves. They had plenty of help from good white people a long the way. It's a shame that you and others refuse to acknowledge that and continue to bash all white people as a whole. The ironic thing here is that you are bending over backwards to help the cause but then turn around and blame yourself for being part of the problem because of your skin color.

As long as you are stuck in a mindset where racism is a problem of some people, and not a problem of culture, you are part of the problem.

What would you have all the white people do, magically link up their brains and start thinking the same thing? I can't stop others from being racist. We can talk about it til we are blue in the face, but it's not gonna change who racists are. I've tried arguing with racist white people plenty of times. It does little good. And really what's the point of doing it anyways. I'll just still be called a racist because of my skin color. I will always be part of the problem because of my skin color.

I guess I just don't understand what you would have me do? Want me to vote for people I think aren't racist? Done that. Want me to hand over what little money I have, my possessions and house to anyone of brown skin? Should I just give my job away too? I'm not sure how that would work, but is that one of the solutions? Every time I see a black man getting arrested, should I risk my own freedom for that stranger and bust him loose from the cops as he is is getting arrested, even though I have no idea if he really committed a crime?

As a nation, should we pass a law that says all black people are exempt from any and all laws? That way we can make sure that no racist cop puts his hands on or shoots another black man? After all, there are no bad black people, just bad white people right?

 

[Hotdog]

The 911 caller was inflammatory, said Crawford was pointing the gun at kids, said it looked to him like he was loading the gun ... really stupid. He in part was responsible for what happened.

This is a very important point that keeps getting looked over. The cops mindset running into that store was that they were looking for a man who was seen in a store loading a gun and also pointing it at kids and other people. The picture was already partially painted for them.

That idiot who called 911 played a huge role in this.

 

[Hotdog]

He was only shot once -- the first shot hit him with two bullets as it was an automatic rifle. At least, this is what I was told by a lady who works for the county in Beavercreek and whose son is a police officer. It did look like he might've been shot a second time when he came back, but this is not what I was told. Plus, you don't hear any shots after that first pop. And yes, it looked like he was reaching back for the gun but for what purpose? It was a b-b gun and unloaded.

Yes, he was already shot. But what puzzled me was that he was able to get up. Was it because the damage of the shot or shots hadn't registered? I don't know much about what happens when you get shot, never having been shot. But within a second or two after getting back up, he fell back and went into convulsions (note his body shaking). Did he fall back because he got shot again? Hard to tell. But you don't hear another pop, do you, or does anybody?

To me it looks like he is shot again after he got back up and went straight towards his gun. I'm not 100% sure either. But it it sure looks like it. It wouldn't make sense that the cop would exercise restraint at that point. That was the most threatening thing the cop should have perceived.

 

[Hotdog]

I don't think he did. To my eyes, he was trying to run and stumbled.

Well then you need to re watch the video a few more times. Running and stumbling doesn't describe what the action LogGrad is questioning about. It doesn't even sound like you are describing what is being talked about.

The part in question is when he got back up after diving/falling behind the shelf. It can be described as running in the wrong direction towards the cops and stopping when he see the cop a few feet away facing directly at him with him standing right in front of the gun he dropped. Maybe he was in shock and he didn't know where the shots came from. Maybe he thought they came from the other way and he got back up to run away from where he thought he was getting shot from. That's probably most likely what happened. I don't know why you say he was running and stumbling and why you choose to end the conversation right there and not talk about how it looked to the cops. I want to know if he was shot the second time at that point or if the cop watched him get back up and run towards him but didn't shoot at that point. I find it hard to believe the cop didn't shoot again that that point. Why would he shoot a suspect just standing there on his phone, but not in the chaos of the guy suddenly jumping back up and running in the direction towards the cop and his gun.

I think this is a very important subject point in this case. To most of us who actually watch the video. It appears he is shot at once or twice at first. Then he goes to the ground. Then he gets back up and runs towards his gun. Then he is shot again and doesn't get back up. I'd be willing to bet that's what happened. Although, Eenie-Meenie thinks maybe he was only shot before he fell the first time. I find this hard to believe based on what the video shows.

What I also don't understand is why you conveniently keep skimming over this point and avoiding it. I guess it just doesn't fit your agenda that all white cops are racist and will shoot you no matter what. You completely ignoring this point just proves how biased you really are. Any rational person who looks at that video says it looks like a very threatening move towards the cops. Even if it's not what he was doing and he wasn't thinking clearly because of how fast it was happening and because he was in shock. Maybe, the cop wouldn't have shot anymore had he just stayed on the ground and he would still be alive today. The cop doesn't have time to figure out what's going on. If the were a real threat then the perp is only a split second away from grabbing the gun and shooting back. In real life and not in some fantasy fairytale land, cops can't read minds and can't always be asking what you are doing in the heat of the moment like that. I will agree to some point that the first shot never should have been fired. The cop probably could have peeked around the corner and yelled at him to identify himself and his actions. But again, we have to go back to the 911 call. They were under the impression that his actions before they arrived were a lot worse. Maybe, they peeked around the corner and saw the rifle and thought they didn't want to get into a gun battle and it would be better to contain the threat before he got a shot off. I don't know. I don't know there training and what the protocol is there.