Police Power and Racial Tensions in Ferguson, Missouri

[framer]

What do you think about predominantly black communities being policed by black cops only, or mostly made up of?

I would think that might help. But I could be wrong.

So back to segregation then?

 

[Hotdog]

So back to segregation then?

You are damned if you do and damned if you don't I guess.

No. Black cops can work in white communties too.

I'm saying, they could at least implement a rule where at least 50% is black, or some higher number.

 

[moevillini]

What do you think about predominantly black communities being policed by black cops only, or mostly made up of?

I would think that might help. But I could be wrong.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-commander-glenn-evans-complaints-met-20140924-story.html#page=1

Indicted cop leader drew 36 complaints in 8 years

From January 2006 through July 2014 — a period in which Evans was promoted to lieutenant and then named one of only 22 district commanders — he amassed 36 complaints in all. Combined with previously released records, Evans has been the subject of at least a combined 50 complaints since 2001.

Evans was never disciplined as a result of any of those complaints except for a two-day suspension, records show, but more recent complaints remain under investigation.

According to a Tribune analysis of the records since 2006, Evans had far more complaints than anyone else of his rank and topped all but 34 officers for the entire 12,000-strong department. In fact, he continued to pile up complaints — nine in all — even after he was promoted by Superintendent Garry McCarthy to commander of the South Side's Grand Crossing police district in August 2012...

...Evans' attorney, Laura Morask, defended his record, saying the complaints amounted to a "small fraction" of the approximately 3,000 arrests she said he has made in his career.

"I don't think it speaks to anything," Morask said, noting how Evans has continued to make arrests even as a commander. "No one likes being arrested."

But last month, Cook County prosecutors alleged that Evans went too far in an abandoned house in the Park Manor neighborhood. He was criminally charged on allegations he shoved his service weapon down a man's throat, pressed a Taser against his groin and threatened to kill him early last year. The next day, the alleged victim, Rickey Williams, filed a complaint against Evans, one of the 36 people to do so since 2006, records show....

 

[framer]

Don't Taze my Groin Bro!

 

[Gameface]

So the "memorial" is in the middle of the street? Could that perhaps be the reason that parts of it were "run over by cars?" Not mentioning that brings into question the objectivity of the writer. Also, I would need to see video evidence of a police officer taking his dog to urinate on a memorial during this tense situation before I am buying it. There are open cameras 24X7 right now. It would be an astounding bit of luck for the police officer to allow that in full view of the public and not have it recorded.

The memorial is in the middle of the street...in the place where he was killed. In the place where there were protests. In a place that was easily avoidable because this wasn't a major thoroughfare.

 

[HighlandHomie]

Federal Judge rules Ferguson PD violated constitutional rights of protesters: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/06/ferguson-protesters-keep-walking_n_5942482.html

What a shocker that the paid lawmen in the Ferguson PD don't know the law. I really cannot wait until those in the Ferguson PD, St. Louis County PD and Missouri prosecutor's office who have abused their jobs, and caused so much pain to many civilians, lose their jobs. The movement is real and this won't be swept under the rug. They will be held accountable.

Meanwhile...

Members of Hammond PD in Indiana are doing their best to show they're most uneducated, power-hungry and brutalizing force in the nation. The latest video of a routine traffic stop has some really empowering, and uplifting images: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...asered-passenger-traffic-stop-lawsuit-n219916

"Hey, Cletus!!!! We just got somma dem new window bashers! Lets go test them out!" - Hammond Deputy Sheriff

 

[moevillini]

Meanwhile...

Members of Hammond PD in Indiana are doing their best to show they're most uneducated, power-hungry and brutalizing force in the nation. The latest video of a routine traffic stop has some really empowering, and uplifting images: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...asered-passenger-traffic-stop-lawsuit-n219916

more about the Hammond incident

https://www.policestateusa.com/2014/jamal-jones/

HAMMOND, IN — After witnessing a motorist allegedly not wearing a seatbelt, police escalated a violent confrontation to the point of shattering a window to extract a passenger when he claimed not to have an ID.

“Oh my God, he’s pulling me over like I robbed a bank,” recalled Lisa Mahone, the driver and alleged seatbelt violator. “The whole situation was just crazy.”

Ms. Mahone was riding with her boyfriend and 2 children to the hospital to see her mother, who was literally on her deathbed.

“I gave him my license and insurance. I also let him know at the beginning to please hurry up because my mom is about to die,” Ms. Mahone said.

Hammond Police, fishing for more offenses, demanded that her adult passenger, Jamal Jones, produce an identification. Mr. Jones initially declined to provide an identification, but when officers continued to insist, he opened up his backpack to look for one.

That’s when police drew their guns.

Hammond police officers shatter the window of a vehicle driven by Lisa Mahone after her boyfriend was viewed not wearing a seatbelt. (Source: FOX 32 Chicago)
Mr. Jones requested a supervisor, and Ms. Mahone dialed 9-1-1 to describe the situation and request the same.

“I am scared. And the man–pulled a gun out. A gun! Why do my kids have to see that,” Mahone told the 9-1-1 operator....


“You’re going to come out of the car one way or another,” the officer menaced. “You want your kids to see you come out through the window?”

Shortly thereafter, the HPD officers rammed a metal object through the passenger window and began to jolt Mr. Jones with a taser. Jones was yanked from of the vehicle, and Ms. Mahone and her children were showered in shards of broken glass...

more...
https://www.myfoxchicago.com/story/26719562/hammond-family-claims-police-overstepped-their-authority-in-traffic-stop

...Suddenly, police broke open the window and tased Jones. Mahone's daughter began crying in the backseat after being sprayed with glass.

"I was just so sad. It was horrible," said daughter Janiya.

Police charged Jones with resisting law enforcement and refusal to aid an officer. The couple filed a federal lawsuit against Hammond police on Monday, with their attorney Dana Kurtz alleging the video shows officers clearly overstepped their authority.

"They had no probable cause, one, to even ask Jamal to get out of the car, or two, to engage in excessive force in tasering and arresting him," Kurtz said.

In a statement, Hammond police defend the officer's actions:

"The Hammond police officers were at all times acting in the interest of officer safety and in accordance with Indiana law... In general, police officers who make legal traffic stops are allowed to ask passengers inside of a stopped vehicle for identification and to request that they exit a stopped vehicle for the officer's safety without a requirement of reasonable suspicion."

Kurtz responded, "There was absolutely no search, no nothing to suggest there was criminal activity going on. And certainly not anything that would authorize to taser someone and pull them out of the car and shatter glass into the back seat with children present."

One of the officers involved in the confrontation has been involved in two prior excessive force lawsuits, with the City of Hammond making payouts to settle both cases...

 

[One Brow]

So the "memorial" is in the middle of the street?

The street was blocked off for quite a while.

 

[One Brow]

What do you think about predominantly black communities being policed by black cops only, or mostly made up of?

I would think that might help. But I could be wrong.

It should not be necessary, but in the current culture, I agree it could be helpful. However, I think it is more important to change how the police interact with the community. Some cities have had success with things like community policing, which gets the officers to have more frequent, less intense interactions with local citizens. If the police keep themselves apart from the community as a separate group, their skin color won't make much difference.

Also, I have read from sources like Balko that a police training has shifted away from how to not use force to some degree, and towards learning to justify the force after it was use. Reversing that shift would helpful as well.

 

[One Brow]

Makes me wonder if there are any instances of black cops being harder on black folks than on white folks in similar circumstances. Tougher to find I bet as "black cop shoots black man" is no where near as inflammatory as "white cop shoots black man" no matter what the circumstances.

Most of what I have read is that black citizens fare only a little better when the police are black.

This study says integrated teams are best:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004723520000043X


This study says that black police officers don't seem to perform better in black neighborhoods:

https://cad.sagepub.com/content/50/4/516.short

 

[HighlandHomie]

more about the Hammond incident

https://www.policestateusa.com/2014/jamal-jones/



more...
https://www.myfoxchicago.com/story/26719562/hammond-family-claims-police-overstepped-their-authority-in-traffic-stop

Thanks for sharing. One of the most maddening aspects is how many of these officers have multiple priors in terms of problems with excessive force or abusing their authority. I know from the top to the bottom in Ferguson and St. Louis Co. PD there are tons of officers with priors. People are starting to take notice and not stand so idly by.

 

[HighlandHomie]

From last night's St. Louis Cardinals game: https://deadspin.com/cardinals-fans-get-ugly-in-clash-with-ferguson-proteste-1643282285

And yes, I hope the guy who taped Darren Wilson's name has horrible things happen to him and he suffers a great deal. There is absolutely no reason to celebrate Wilson. It's one thing to defend his right for his day in court (one which he ironically took away from Brown), but it's another to celebrate him.

 

[HighlandHomie]

NYPD officer hits handcuffed, unarmed teen in face with a gun. VIDEO: https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20141007/bed-stuy/video-nypd-officer-hits-teen-face-with-his-gun

Detroit cop who shot and killed a 7-year old girl during a drug raid has charges dropped. Big shocker (sarcasm): https://globalgrind.com/2014/10/07/...ropped-detroit-cop-shot-aiyana-jones-details?

 

[Hotdog]

NYPD officer hits handcuffed, unarmed teen in face with a gun. VIDEO: https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20141007/bed-stuy/video-nypd-officer-hits-teen-face-with-his-gun

Detroit cop who shot and killed a 7-year old girl during a drug raid has charges dropped. Big shocker (sarcasm): https://globalgrind.com/2014/10/07/...ropped-detroit-cop-shot-aiyana-jones-details?

I think that in the cases where the cop was in the wrong and abusive, then severe punishment should be handed down. There should be extra punishment for abusing power. This should apply to politicians too. That's a crime in its self imo, to betray the public like that. Also, police departments should have to pay hefty fines. Cops should have to pay personal fines, and serve time as well. Maybe that would curb the draw of power hungry people to the force.

I don't like police corruption and abuse either. Hopefully, with technology getting better and more cameras are around then we can start to weed out the bad cops.

But HighlandHomie, you have to keep things in perspective. Every cop in America isn't out there doing this. Posting a few stories about it, doesn't mean that it's the norm. A lot of cops are trying to do the right thing. These cases aren't even a drop in the bucket when you compare it to how many cop interactions or non interactions are happening everyday across America. It's in the millions. These are only a few cases. It's not even 1% of the time.

 

[HighlandHomie]

But HighlandHomie, you have to keep things in perspective. Every cop in America isn't out there doing this. Posting a few stories about it, doesn't mean that it's the norm. A lot of cops are trying to do the right thing. These cases aren't even a drop in the bucket when you compare it to how many cop interactions or non interactions are happening everyday across America. It's in the millions. These are only a few cases. It's not even 1% of the time.

I certainly understand the majority of police officers are true public servants, and I'm grateful for their efforts to keep and protect the peace in their respective communities. But I don't think the overall nature of the job puts the job itself above being scrutinized. There are also plenty of police harassment instances that don't end in violence or a video being captured that also go unnoticed.

I don't mean to convey the notion that all police are bad. But I do think police corruption and abuse of power, particularly in poorer areas, is common enough to be something that needs to be at the forefront of public discussion - just as much as Donald Sterling, Ray Rice and Kim Kardashian.

 

[Hotdog]

I certainly understand the majority of police officers are true public servants, and I'm grateful for their efforts to keep and protect the peace in their respective communities. But I don't think the overall nature of the job puts the job itself above being scrutinized. There are also plenty of police harassment instances that don't end in violence or a video being captured that also go unnoticed.

I don't mean to convey the all police are bad. But I do think police corruption and abuse of power, particularly in poorer areas, is common enough to be something that needs to be at the forefront of public discussion - just as much as Donald Sterling, Ray Rice and Kim Kardashian.

That's a pretty level-headed comment.

I think if you would have said it like that at first people wouldn't be giving you such a hard time.

Like I said, punish the betrayer severely. I'm all for it. We need to discourage it as much as possible. I hate an abusive racist crooked cop as much as the next guy.

I also think that every case needs to be observed objectively, and individually. And without race being injected into it immediately. Otherwise we can't have white cops working black neighborhood at all anymore. Because it always going to be an issue.

 

[HighlandHomie]

That's a pretty level-headed comment.

I think if you would have said it like that at first people wouldn't be giving you such a hard time.

Like I said, punish the betrayer severely. I'm all for it. We need to discourage it as much as possible. I hate an abusive racist crooked cop as much as the next guy.

I also think that every case needs to be observed objectively, and individually. And without race being injected into it immediately. Otherwise we can't have white cops working black neighborhood at all anymore. Because it always going to be an issue.

For clarity, I'm white. But race is part of the Ferguson case (documented history of racism/prejudice among cops/officials prior to Brown's death), and in the cases of big cities like NYC, Chicago and LA the industrialized incarceration has targeted black and other minority communities and there are staggering percentages to back that up.

Again, I'm not saying all police are racist and if a white cop discharges his weapon at a black person he's automatically a racist. But in all the specific cases I've brought to this board, race was objectively a factor.

 

[HighlandHomie]

Ferguson Police Chief to step down: https://www.cnn.com/2014/10/28/us/ferguson-police-chief/index.html

It is encouraging to see people stand for something - seems like reform is on the way in that backwards part of our country, so hopefully everyone involved in Mike Brown's death and subsequent protests from a leadership perspective lose their jobs asap. It's depressing because this is just one area out of hundreds around our country that desperately needed a change in leadership from old greedy scum that ran things since the founding of our nation. But many people's quality of life will get better in Ferguson and St. Louis County because of the impending resignations/removals/etc - so we can all take solace in that.

The worst outcome of everything, and I said it from the start in one of these threads, would have been for Mike Brown's death at the hands of Darren Wilson to fade out of everyone's thoughts within weeks thus perpetuating the much larger problem in play.

The Occupy movements nationwide at least paved the way for local visionaries to learn ways to organize in this new age of media, even if they didn't really do anything in terms of bringing about change on Wall St.

The movements that have sprouted up over the last year or so against police violence and corruption in big cities have gained real traction, and change is on its way. It's time for NYC, LA and Chicago to step up to the plate and hold their law enforcement officials accountable.

 

[Gameface]

Ferguson Police Chief to step down: https://www.cnn.com/2014/10/28/us/ferguson-police-chief/index.html

It is encouraging to see people stand for something - seems like reform is on the way in that backwards part of our country, so hopefully everyone involved in Mike Brown's death and subsequent protests from a leadership perspective lose their jobs asap. It's depressing because this is just one area out of hundreds around our country that desperately needed a change in leadership from old greedy scum that ran things since the founding of our nation. But many people's quality of life will get better in Ferguson and St. Louis County because of the impending resignations/removals/etc - so we can all take solace in that.

The worst outcome of everything, and I said it from the start in one of these threads, would have been for Mike Brown's death at the hands of Darren Wilson to fade out of everyone's thoughts within weeks thus perpetuating the much larger problem in play.

The Occupy movements nationwide at least paved the way for local visionaries to learn ways to organize in this new age of media, even if they didn't really do anything in terms of bringing about change on Wall St.

The movements that have sprouted up over the last year or so against police violence and corruption in big cities have gained real traction, and change is on its way. It's time for NYC, LA and Chicago to step up to the plate and hold their law enforcement officials accountable.

We need more of this from you.

Solid post!

Bravo.

 

[HighlandHomie]

We need more of this from you.

Solid post!

Bravo.

I can't tell if you're patronizing me or not. I guess I deserve the uncertainty due to the manner in which I made several posts over the course of the last year.