Gay marriage in Utah put on hold

[The Midnight]

That depends on how it is enacted. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

If the answer is "Yes" then what is the problem?

 

[babe]

I think not, particularly because employers can only write benefit contracts based on legal status. Employees and unions could impact that practice, and some smart insurers and employers could change that, but we need to change some tax laws as well.

 

[One Brow]

If the answer is "Yes" then what is the problem?

How would you feel if everyone refused to say you were a human, and referred to you only as a bipedal ape? They mean the same thing, after all.

 

[The Midnight]

How would you feel if everyone refused to say you were a human, and referred to you only as a bipedal ape? They mean the same thing, after all.

But they aren't exactly the same though. The same sex couples' inability to reproduce means there is at least a difference, IMO.

 

[babe]

@ OB

I think you mean Thomas Jefferson and a letter written to a New England Baptist group, at a time when many States still had official and State-supported churches. Jefferson was deeply. Religious but quarreled with organized religious groups.

His specific positions as Virginia's governor promoted his notions of the benefits of Christian faith in society, while adamant against special favors for any specific organized church, and especially against Federal acts of that sort.

There were several State churches then, and the meaning in Jefferson's letter accepted fact, and spoke to the bar against a Federal Estblishnent of special preferment s.

You have particular blindness to the effects of government actions in the past sixty years. Don't choke on your ignorance.

 

[One Brow]

But they aren't exactly the same though. The same sex couples' inability to reproduce means there is at least a difference, IMO.

So, when heretosexual couples choose to adopt children rather than have their own, you view their marriage as different from a heterosexual marriage where the couple has their own children?

Maybe I think there is a fundamental difference between people who apply standards consistently and those who apply them haphazardly. Perhaps I think only the first should be called "human", while the rest should be called "bipedal ape". Since you would be a bipedal ape under this notion, that doesn't bother you at all, right?

 

[One Brow]

I think you mean Thomas Jefferson and a letter written to a New England Baptist group,

That was one document by Jefferson which gave rise to a famous illustration, but you can find many more by Jefferson and Madison, among other founders.

There were several State churches then, and the meaning in Jefferson's letter accepted fact, and spoke to the bar against a Federal Estblishnent of special preferment s.

I agree that Jefferson lived before the 14th Amendment was passed.

You have particular blindness to the effects of government actions in the past sixty years.

Feel free to enumerate them. Based on experience, I'll probably agree with half of what you say, at least.

 

[moevillini]

How would you feel if everyone refused to say you were a human, and referred to you only as a bipedal ape? They mean the same thing, after all.

or maybe we should just all be called homo sapiens and then we'd all be homos




(sorry for the attempt at humor, but I couldn't resist)

 

[The Midnight]

So, when heretosexual couples choose to adopt children rather than have their own, you view their marriage as different from a heterosexual marriage where the couple has their own children?

It's still gonna be different having a male and a female in the family VS having x2 males, or x2 females.


Also in terms of adoption I don't think it's fair for a child to be stuck with a family with x2 males or x2 females if he/she would rather not be.

 

[moevillini]

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/ne...bpoenas-sermons-in-ERO-court-case-5822800.php

In Houston there is a court case over a city law regarding equal rights. Now the court has subpoenaed the sermons and communications between pastors and members of their congregations.

Toughts? Does this violate any freedoms? I am sure Dutch will have a field day with this one.

here's a bit more about that Houston case:
https://abc13.com/news/pastors-sermons-subpoenaed-amid-hero-fight/350929/

The fight over the anti-discrimination ordinance that passed in May has included protests and petition drives. Thousands of signatures were deemed invalid, which led to the lawsuit.

Some signatures were acquired at churches which make the sermons fair game, according to City Attorney Dave Feldman.

"If they choose to do this inside the church, choose to do this from the pulpit, then they open the door to the questions being asked," Feldman said.

and

https://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/houston.asp

...The Houston Chronicle reported that Houston City Attorney David Feldman had suggested the documents demanded by the city could "shed light on the extent to which signature gatherers opposing the ordinance were aware of the rules governing the referendum process," namely a prohibition against churches' engaging in political activities:

Feldman said the pastors made their sermons relevant to the case by using the pulpit to do political organizing. That included encouraging congregation members to sign petitions and help gather signatures for equal rights ordinance foes, who largely take issue with the rights extended to gay and transgender residents.

Read more at https://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/houston.asp

 

[moevillini]

It's still gonna be different having a male and a female in the family VS having x2 males, or x2 females.


Also in terms of adoption I don't think it's fair for a child to be stuck with a family with x2 males or x2 females if he/she would rather not be.

oh good heck...

let's just let all kids decide who they'd want to be their parents...

maybe they'd all pick Santa Claus

 

[DutchJazzer]

I know a woman named Gaye (with an "e") and my mom had a good friend named Gay (spelled just like that)

We also have neighbors whose last name is Gayes and some years back for a while next door to them was a family of 2 gay men and their 2 children. One day I asked one of my kids to bring something over to the Gayes' house and they brought it to the wrong house. So later that evening I get a call from one of the men asking what it was all about and I said "oh that's for the Gayes..." Then I sort of paused awkwardly and he laughed and said he'd bring it next door.

That was probably 15 years ago.

i heards there was a basketball player named rudy GAY

 

[The Midnight]

oh good heck...

let's just let all kids decide who they'd want to be their parents...

maybe they'd all pick Santa Claus

Well if the kid's gonna get picked on at school for having x2 gay dads, I don't think that's fair on the kid to take on the burden of the choice the parents made.

 

[One Brow]

It's still gonna be different having a male and a female in the family VS having x2 males, or x2 females.

Why? What can a man offer a child that a woman can not, or vice versa, outside of direct breat feeding?

Also in terms of adoption I don't think it's fair for a child to be stuck with a family with x2 males or x2 females if he/she would rather not be.

We humans understand the children would much rather be adopted by a gay couple than not be adopted at all (yes, that is th echoice), you bipedal apes seem to struggle with the concept.

 

[The Midnight]

We humans understand the children would much rather be adopted by a gay couple than not be adopted at all (yes, that is th echoice), you bipedal apes seem to struggle with the concept.

Do you know that for a fact?

 

[Deleted member 848]

Do you know that for a fact?

Seriously?!

 

[The Midnight]

https://www.frc.org/issuebrief/new-study-on-homosexual-parents-tops-all-previous-research


This study found the following:

Children of lesbian mothers:

• Are more likely to be currently cohabiting
• Are almost 4 times more likely to be currently on public assistance
• Are less likely to be currently employed full-time
• Are more than 3 times more likely to be unemployed
• Are nearly 4 times more likely to identify as something other than entirely heterosexual
• Are 3 times as likely to have had an affair while married or cohabiting
• Are an astonishing 10 times more likely to have been "touched sexually by a parent or other adult caregiver."
• Are nearly 4 times as likely to have been "physically forced" to have sex against their will
• Are more likely to have "attachment" problems related to the ability to depend on others
• Use marijuana more frequently
• Smoke more frequently
• Watch TV for long periods more frequently
• Have more often pled guilty to a non-minor offense

Also this:

The most shocking and troubling outcomes, however, are those related to sexual abuse. Children raised by a lesbian mother were 10 times more likely to have been "touched sexually by a parent or other adult caregiver" (23% reported this, vs. only 2% for children of married biological parents), while those raised by a homosexual father were 3 times more likely (reported by 6%). In his text, but not in his charts, Regnerus breaks out these figures for only female victims, and the ratios remain similar (3% IBF; 31% LM; 10% GF). As to the question of whether you have "ever been physically forced" to have sex against your will (not necessarily in childhood), affirmative answers came from 8% of children of married biological parents, 31% of children of lesbian mothers (nearly 4 times as many), and 25% of the children of homosexual fathers (3 times as many). Again, when Regnerus breaks these figures out for females (who are more likely to be victims of sexual abuse in general), such abuse was reported by 14% of IBFs, but 3 times as many of the LMs (46%) and GFs (52%).

 

[Deleted member 848]

https://www.frc.org/issuebrief/new-study-on-homosexual-parents-tops-all-previous-research


This study found the following:

Children of lesbian mothers:

• Are more likely to be currently cohabiting
• Are almost 4 times more likely to be currently on public assistance
• Are less likely to be currently employed full-time
• Are more than 3 times more likely to be unemployed
• Are nearly 4 times more likely to identify as something other than entirely heterosexual
• Are 3 times as likely to have had an affair while married or cohabiting
• Are an astonishing 10 times more likely to have been "touched sexually by a parent or other adult caregiver."
• Are nearly 4 times as likely to have been "physically forced" to have sex against their will
• Are more likely to have "attachment" problems related to the ability to depend on others
• Use marijuana more frequently
• Smoke more frequently
• Watch TV for long periods more frequently
• Have more often pled guilty to a non-minor offense

Also this:

Lmao.

Do yourself a favour, and google the FRC-- along with how legitimate their "studies" are.

That should answer all your questions. Most unbiased marriage sociologists show no significant differences between Hetero and homosexual marriages, along with the impacts on their children. Studies are still ongoing, as this is a relatively new field. In the meantime, try and see if there has been any downgrade in the health and lack of abuse among children whose countries have legalized gay marriage

 

[moevillini]

let me just say that after reading your comments above, your new user name seems rather self-contradictory at the moment

(edit: or maybe it explains everything - - there is only one type of love that is acceptable to you...)


and let me just say that I do know for a fact of three children who were THRILLED to be adopted by same-sex couples after spending several years in the foster care system...

and one of those was in a foster home that he loved, but it still wasn't the same as having 2 parents that were really his, and a family for "keeps"

 

[LogGrad98]

Lmao.

Do yourself a favour, and google the FRC-- along with how legitimate their "studies" are.

That should answer all your questions. Most unbiased marriage sociologists show no significant differences between Hetero and homosexual marriages, along with the impacts on their children. Studies are still ongoing, as this is a relatively new field. In the meantime, try and see if there has been any downgrade in the health and lack of abuse among children whose countries have legalized gay marriage

Do you happen to have any links to such studies? I do not have a horse in this race, but I would be curious to read about some studies done that disprove this kind of stuff, as I have heard similar stuff anecdotally for years but it isn't my personal anecdotal observations with my same-sex couple friends.