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Legalize marijuana?

^Also smokers in particular already pay huge taxes for their habit. $1.01 per pack Federal + state and local taxes.

Smokers subsidize the healthcare of healthy people. FACT
 
heyhey said:
Yes they are more likely to live with chronic illness but that is outweighed by not being alive for their 70's & 80's. People beyond 65 are rarely productive and insanely expensive. My argument does very much to debunk it.

The costs of being obese or being a smoker are largely bore by the individual not by the system, the state, or the economy (unless you are counting the lost jobs due to needing fewer medical workers).
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1) chronic illnesses don't exert their effects primarily I n the 70s and 80s-- especially as the years progress
2) the costs of seniors on the economy is greatly exaggerated. Not only that, but costs could even be further reduced if senior care was dealt with in a much more efficient manner (as seen in numerous other countries-- ie distancing ourselves from the funeral home approach).


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heyhey said:
^Also smokers in particular already pay huge taxes for their habit. $1.01 per pack Federal + state and local taxes. Smokers subsidize the healthcare of healthy people. FACT
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Smokers emit second-hand smoke which DOESN't subsidize the healthcare of healthy people. FACT.

The taxation of cigarettes is not done with revenue-generation in mind. A perfectly successful smoking taxation regime would garner $0 in revenue.


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dalamon said:
1) chronic illnesses don't exert their effects primarily I n the 70s and 80s-- especially as the years progress
2) the costs of seniors on the economy is greatly exaggerated. Not only that, but costs could even be further reduced if senior care was dealt with in a much more efficient manner (as seen in numerous other countries-- ie distancing ourselves from the funeral home approach).


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1) What? Have you met an old person? Wtf are you talking about?

2) I agree with bold
 
heyhey said:
1) What? Have you met an old person? Wtf are you talking about?
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Meant to say that chronic illnesses are not a phenomenon exclusive to people in their 70s and 80s.


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Hantlers said:
Well considering all I usually drink is one beer (or a glass of whiskey), what would be the equivalent with marijuana?
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There isn't an equivalent.

I'd say the intoxication curve for marijuana is MUCH steeper than it is for alcohol. At least up to a point. I consider marijuana more of a high or not type thing. Sure there is a little high and there is too high, but getting to the point of being high is quick and getting to the point of being too high takes effort and is usually intentional. With alcohol you can easily drink slow enough to never really get completely drunk. It's a much more linear process. It's pretty easy to consume at a constant rate and maintain a certain level of intoxication, or to drink at a faster rate and get more drunk. I'd say inexperienced drinkers can easily let things get away (not to say experienced drinkers don't, but they usually do so intentionally while it may not be intentional for an inexperienced drinker) from them and the alcohol intoxication often leads to an even greater rate of consumption.

A person a little buzzed off alcohol can do most things normally. A person a little buzzed off weed can too. A person high on weed might exhibit signs of consumption, but that person can likely still do most things normally. A drunk person starts to lose the ability to act and function normally. If you end up way overindulging in weed you'll likely lay down for a nap. A person who overindulged in alcohol starts to act and think erratically. At some point most people will get sick if they drink too much.

They just aren't the same.

I'm sure some people who've had plenty of experience with both will disagree with my post.
 
Gameface said:
For anyone out there against legalization. First, you're kind of dumb. I don't mean that in a mean way, but it's true. Second, useage and legal status are not related. People who want to use marijuana use it. In your mind you might think that it is illegal therefore some people don't do it, but the fact is that there is very little stigma associated with it and most people would turn the other way rather than worry about a harmless pot head.

Prohibition creates opportunities for criminals that don't exist otherwise. Prohibition in and of itself does more harm than marijuana would left completely unregulated.

Marijuana prohibition is disproportionately enforced on the poor and minorities to a ridiculous extreme. It is one of the most horrendous injustices of our time.
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While I would agree that legalization would/does not significantly increase usage, it would/does increase usage somewhat.
 
One Brow said:
While I would agree that legalization would/does not significantly increase usage, it would/does increase usage somewhat.
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This is true. And still not even close to a good reason not to legalize (not saying that is a point you were arguing)
 
One Brow said:
While I would agree that legalization would/does not significantly increase usage, it would/does increase usage somewhat.
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I agree with this.

I think there is a relation between legalization and usage. There are many reasons one might want to use but not do so due to it's illegality.

Such as those randomly drug tested by an employeer, those involved with state cases (such as child protective services and drug court), those on parole...

The level of that relation is debatable.
 
Stoked said:
I agree with this.

I think there is a relation between legalization and usage. There are many reasons one might want to use but not do so due to it's illegality.

Such as those randomly drug tested by an employeer, those involved with state cases (such as child protective services and drug court), those on parole...

The level of that relation is debatable.
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From my understanding, employers can still drug test in states that have legalized marijuana. And people on parole usually aren't allowed to drink alcohol, so I doubt they would be permitted to use marijuana.

Yeah, I'd agree that usage would increase somewhat, but probably by a low single digit percentage. If that means prohibition works then I don't really know what tot say.
 
Gameface said:
From my understanding, employers can still drug test in states that have legalized marijuana. And people on parole usually aren't allowed to drink alcohol, so I doubt they would be permitted to use marijuana.

Yeah, I'd agree that usage would increase somewhat, but probably by a low single digit percentage. If that means prohibition works then I don't really know what tot say.
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It all depends on what someone who smokes stands to lose imo.
 
Stoked said:
It all depends on what someone who smokes stands to lose imo.
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I agree. I think employment based drug screening is the best possible motivation for not using drugs amongst those who might otherwise use them.

Legal prohibition, not so much.
 
freakazoid said:
Bump.
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Interesting posts in this thread. I recently move to the Portland area, more specifically, Vancouver, Wa. I'm 5 minutes from Portland right across the river. Yep, I live in the mecca of legal marijuana in America. Smack dab in the middle of two legalized states. Just wanted to kinda rub that in the faces of all the connoisseurs on the board that are stuck in backwards areas of the world, where the darkness still overpowers the light.
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Anyway, it's kind of surreal to watch all this come into fruition, after years of speculation over the feasibility. 25 years ago I predicted legalization in 15 years. I was off on the time, and even though I believed people would come around eventually, it's still kind of weird watching it happen. Alaska just passed legalization as well, and I think once other states see the money being raked in by taxes, they will begin to fall, one by one.
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It's good being on the right side of history.

Those that still support keeping marijuana illegal are are incredibly myopic and support the idea of a state that thinks incacerating it's citizens over free will is a viable option.
 
VINYLONE said:
I read this and thought it was specious. Where are you getting your information from?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...4/colorado-marijuana-revenues-hit-a-new-high/
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It was several months ago, which is why I said "last I heard" figuring things may have changed. But even though revenue hit a new high, does that mean that it has reached the amount the state budgeted for? What I heard, several months ago, was that the state had expected far more revenue than current sales were generating.

reading article now...
 
Gameface said:
What I heard, several months ago, was that the state had expected far more revenue than current sales were generating.

reading article now...
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If you know of any article that states this, I'd love to be linked to it.
 
Here is one of the comments from that article.

UNDER target by a longshot, and Coloradans are wondering why it is not going to build schools. $45 million after 3/4 of the year. It was supposed to bye $120 million the first year, then they revised it down to $90 million.
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And that's what I had heard. They were expecting a windfall of new revenue and it hasn't happened.

That's not to say sales aren't happening, but they either overestimated how much MJ people used, or more likely, they thought people would be willing to buy legal marijuana at higher prices but they aren't.

From my experience marijuana is traded within social groups at "end-user" level. It isn't a risky enterprise. You know who you're dealing with and they know you. There would be very little incentive to pay more for the same thing at a retail outlet.

The old "legalize it and tax the hell out of it" idea I've heard so many times is deeply flawed. If anything they should be looking for ways to make legal marijuana cheaper than black market marijuana.

I don't know how much it costs to produce good quality marijuana in a legal way, but my guess is that it could probably sell for less than $50 dollars for 1/8oz and still make a tidy profit. But it seems like they are using the standard black market street pricing or higher for legal MJ and then adding tax on top.
 
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