Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
Actually, I think you would be surprised. Are you really a Loose Change believer?
Congresswoman shot.
- Thread starter Beantown
- Start date
Actually, I think you would be surprised. Are you really a Loose Change believer?
Duck Rodgers
Well-Known Member
Never seen it. I don't watch documentaries. But 9/11 inside job? Absolutely.
You know what's funny? You're the guy posting the Alien topics on this forum and then you have so much disdain when I question something. I don't believe in Aliens - at least to the extent that anybody is ever going to be able to make contact with us or vice versa.
As someone who is much older than you and would guess has read 400% more of the similar material over a long period of time, be careful. I've traveled down the road many times thinking I have reached the ultimate answers. Much of what I read years ago I believed to be "the truth", doesn't quite measure up now a days. See the problem is once we head down a certain road, virtually all humans simply continue down the road and seek only truths that confirm their already held truths. There is a BIG Difference between reading a lot and being well read. Very few people are the later.
What this unfortunate incident has proven is that once such tragedy occurs, humans don't become more enlightened, they become more entrenched. Each individual or organization has simply taken the incident and morphed it to confirm their own belief's. Humans when confronted with disturbing events crave simplicity. Even super intelligent people regress in this manner.
All the usual players touched all the usual bases:
NPR had the poor women dead. Nice piece of journalism.
Several media outlets had the shooter as a war veteran, an Afghanistan war veteran. This is the first go to play by the media during any shooting. The guy never passed his ASVAB test.
When his former classmate came out of the woodwork calling him a lefty leaning, anti-government, druggy. It was ignored by the biggest media outlets for hours. When it did break, MSNBC left out the lefty part. Right on cue. You can't possibly have a lefty shoot a lefty. That would be cognitive dissonance at the highest level.
Of course nothing is known of the shooter other than a few random ramblings on the internet, but of course that didn't stop the media and the lefty blogs from jumping right to Sara Palin. A quantum leap at the minimum, a complete fabrication at the maximum. What would be the equivalent? Could you imagine the media blaming Al Gore because a deranged 22 year old psychotic with a significant history of aberrant behavior attempted to assassinate John Boehner? I am sure the genius Sara Palin was hatching a plot that if she published a picture of cross hairs on a candidates district, if she got lucky some tea bagger would take matters into their own hands. That would be a great plan for Palin.
Of course, no proof as of yet. I will take the over bet that the kid spent 4 times the amount of time jerking off to Sara Palin than actually listening to her and 10 times the amount of time surfing porn than listening to Beck. Apparently now, the kid had a riff with the nice gal dating back to 2007 pre-dating the tea party. Why let facts get in the way of a good narrative that reinforces your already planned agenda.
Facts don't matter until long after the damage has been done and the usual suspects shoveling crap have moved on to the next car wreck.
Tea Bagger violence? None to date. When Sharon Angle spouts her nonsense is that official tea bagger platform? Where is that in writing? When Rob Reiner and Susan Sarandon spout ther idiocy is that official Democrat party platform? What about Air America? Oh yeah, they routinely had serious discussions on all things political. Of course Al Franken, there is a reasonable reflection of the Dem party. He just called Ari Fleisher a chimp and Karl Rove human filth. When Harry Reid calls the greatest General since Eisenhower a liar, is that a reflection of the Democratic party. Does the Daily Kos reflect the Dem platform?
Of course the hypocrisy of the left is never challenged, only that of the right. Amazing how the wars are ignored and the killing of Afghanistan civilians suddenly not quite as horrifying as Iraqi civilians deaths. Of course don't look now as gas approaches 3 bucks. Obama must be in bed with big oil because the only way gas can be this high is some big oil conspiracy theory.
I guess we will have to wait for the next Dem administration to repeal the unconstitutional Patriot Act.
Of the course the right doesn't escape unscathed. They willingly embraced an empty-headed cute little ditz and prop her up as the modern day standard of womanhood. Great, now they have to carry that baggage around for how long? The left is so scared tha an actual right wing women could become president they will do anything to bring her down. They would be better off letting her go. She will do more damage to the right wing by simply being herself. Why do you need Caribou Barbie when you have great thinkers like Mitch McConnell and Glenn Beck on your side. How can you possibly lose when the default reaction to every problem is tax cuts, buying gold, and stocking the pantry with daily bread.
Tea Baggers? Really? The straw that stirs the drink of racism and fascism? Was Robert KKK Byrd a member of the Tea Baggers? I guess the Tea Baggers and Bobby Seale walking hand in hand shouting "Freedom by any means necessary" would be quite a vision nowadays.
Perhaps the Black Panthers could sponsor Dale Earnhardt Jr.
Everybody has an axe to grind.
Don't fall for the schtick from either side. This kid and his parents story is going to looney real quick.
Oh yeah, the congress lady was by all accounts a Blue Dog Dem. The left hates the blue dogs as much as they hate Beck and the Tea Baggers. Let us also not forget Mr. Sheriff go right to the political card before he even had the basic facts of the shooting. A real purveyor of innocent until proven guilty. Nice job Mr. Fife.
PearlWatson
Well-Known Member
I'm from Arizona and have gotten about 10 phone calls from this today. People are actually saying that potential violence has been simmering there for a long time with numerous people showing up to Congressional campaign rallies for Democrats while actively displaying their right to bear arms.
Locally the big stink presently is that Sarah Palin posted this image on her website during the 2010 campaign:
The use of cross-hair and rifle imagery is probably in bad taste as a general rule, but after the fact this just looks horrible; especially when coupled with "help us prescribe the solution."
And yes, one of thos crosshairs in Arizona represents Giffords.
This doesn't have any influence whatsoever? Will you honestly say that this couldn't insight an already angry, broken, or unbalanced person to take action into their own hands?
This is pretty disgusting BS political posturing from the liberal media and it's followers.
Too bad we could use the same strategy to blame this on the liberals of Daily Kos:
and the use of target maps is employed by the Democrats too:
Sneakers
Well-Known Member
Ok so my guess is that this 22 year old was some delusional loner with some psychotic idea about America and the World.
I 100% bet that this kid, being a young adult loner outcast was more concerned with trying to land the cute girl at the hair salon then making some grand political statement on behalf of some party. The fact that so many people are trying to atribute this act to some sort of party or movement, to me, is ridiculous, an over-reaction and speaks volumes of the climate largely today.
Was the murderous spree in Trolley Square years ago done on behalf of some leftist party trying to damage the republicans by murdering numerous of people? There have been psycho kids for years, ever since Columbine. Every other month there is a new shooting incident somewhere. In fact just last week some other depressed kid shot his assistant principal at his high school, leaving similar messages online like "Please forgive me friends", "I will be put in a negative light", etc. I guess I'm just shocked at the scope that this incident is being given.
I 100% bet that this kid, being a young adult loner outcast was more concerned with trying to land the cute girl at the hair salon then making some grand political statement on behalf of some party. The fact that so many people are trying to atribute this act to some sort of party or movement, to me, is ridiculous, an over-reaction and speaks volumes of the climate largely today.
Was the murderous spree in Trolley Square years ago done on behalf of some leftist party trying to damage the republicans by murdering numerous of people? There have been psycho kids for years, ever since Columbine. Every other month there is a new shooting incident somewhere. In fact just last week some other depressed kid shot his assistant principal at his high school, leaving similar messages online like "Please forgive me friends", "I will be put in a negative light", etc. I guess I'm just shocked at the scope that this incident is being given.
Duck Rodgers
Well-Known Member
Good post/rant all around. No doubt on all of that. Even many authors I like, such as P.J. O'Rourke, have totally flipped around from one side to the other. College liberal, adult conservative. It's a pretty common thing throughout life it seems. I praise anybody that even attempts to be well read. I'm not saying that I'm better than anybody, or that I'm coming to the right conclusions. But my ability to call BS accurately and to understand all sides is certainly much improved. I just love books now though and it's shocking to me how much I've changed - some people think for the worse, I think for the better. The world will play out, and if it doesn't work the way I think it does, then you adjust.
At my local library I sort of get discouraged though because the same books are always on the shelves. Nobody is reading the important stuff. You'll bump into 100's of people trying to grab the novels, but you'll have free roam in the economics/history/science/language sections. I don't even care if people believe what I believe, but when you start speaking about stuff and nobody knows what the hell you're talking about, they either are convinced you're brilliant or a nut job - when it's really neither. But hey, at least they learned how to bake cookies in Home Ec.
Millsapa: You're aware that the post I made was reporting on the sentiment I was hearing out of talking to people in Phoenix right? I had about 5 people mention that to me in AZ that morning and thought it was a wrinkle worth commenting on. That report reflected the conversation at the time, as reflected by the statements made by the sheriff shortly thereafter.
In fact, a facebook status from this morning that I posted linked to exactly the same Dem targeting map and stated:
"It is true that Republicans do not have a monopoly on using targets on maps for political purposes.
Distinctions to be drawn: Internal strategy vs. public call to action, crosshairs vs. bullseye, differences in traditional views on firearms between parties and whatnot, but bad taste all around."
I'm sure that's too much cognitive dissonance for you to handle though.
I do think the current narrative that's emerging that he's simply crazy and there's no correlation to right-wing politics is a bit off. The evidence at this point is clearly mixed. Some of it is straight loony (I'm thinking of the stuff involving grammar) but others have recognizable strands such as the focus on monetary systems and gold-backed currency as well as the exotic interpretations of specific clauses of the US Constitution. Some reports about incidents at his community college also cut that direction, such as his violent outburst after another student read a poem about abortion.
The widely spread quote from a high school classmate that he was a "far-left" guy seems to be conflating interestingly with other reports that he had anarchic tendencies. There's more than a little bit of bleed between radical leftists and anarchists in that both tend to latch on to extreme conspiracies and have radical "trashing" style remedies for their perceived ills. Not to mention the obvious but silent standpoint issue in terms of who is doing the reporting.
In any event there has to be a reason why this particular politician was targeted vs. any other and I don't think it's unreasonable to apply a default rebuttable presumption that when someone targets a politician for a murder attempt they are doing so for political purposes. If the issue was merely one of ease of access that seems to cut against him simply being totally crazy.
In fact, a facebook status from this morning that I posted linked to exactly the same Dem targeting map and stated:
"It is true that Republicans do not have a monopoly on using targets on maps for political purposes.
Distinctions to be drawn: Internal strategy vs. public call to action, crosshairs vs. bullseye, differences in traditional views on firearms between parties and whatnot, but bad taste all around."
I'm sure that's too much cognitive dissonance for you to handle though.
I do think the current narrative that's emerging that he's simply crazy and there's no correlation to right-wing politics is a bit off. The evidence at this point is clearly mixed. Some of it is straight loony (I'm thinking of the stuff involving grammar) but others have recognizable strands such as the focus on monetary systems and gold-backed currency as well as the exotic interpretations of specific clauses of the US Constitution. Some reports about incidents at his community college also cut that direction, such as his violent outburst after another student read a poem about abortion.
The widely spread quote from a high school classmate that he was a "far-left" guy seems to be conflating interestingly with other reports that he had anarchic tendencies. There's more than a little bit of bleed between radical leftists and anarchists in that both tend to latch on to extreme conspiracies and have radical "trashing" style remedies for their perceived ills. Not to mention the obvious but silent standpoint issue in terms of who is doing the reporting.
In any event there has to be a reason why this particular politician was targeted vs. any other and I don't think it's unreasonable to apply a default rebuttable presumption that when someone targets a politician for a murder attempt they are doing so for political purposes. If the issue was merely one of ease of access that seems to cut against him simply being totally crazy.
This is very reasonable. It seems a bit illogical to target a politician without some level of political beef. Time will tell. I don't buy the lefty, druggy claims in absolution. Nobody knows what her motivation is. From the media stand point it is much more enlightening how each outlet deals with the information unearthed.
You can also attempt to do harm to a democrat politician without being anti-democrat. You can also attempt to do harm to a republican politician without being anti-republican. Most zealots, I think you will agree, to a large extent, hate everything and everybody.
Sneakers
Well-Known Member
I think that the fact that the guy is still alive will at least allow us more insight as time goes on. So we can conjecture all we want, we'll probably know more in a few weeks. I just want to make sure I'm getting the story from 4-5 different news outlets and can piece together the story without any political slanting or subliminal editorializing.
And also, is it just politically correct to call this guy the "alleged assassin" or what? Does that bug anyone else?
And also, is it just politically correct to call this guy the "alleged assassin" or what? Does that bug anyone else?
A few issues here. There are probably very few conspiracy theories that are totally true. Some events are unanswerable and conspiracy theories fill in the answers that people need to reconcile randomness. Those who readily consume conspiracy theories want to and need to psychologically. They are like addictions. Once you buy into one, it is easier to buy into the second. Most people who believe one theory, believe most.
Sneakers
Well-Known Member
All I mean is that people who just devour the conspiracy theory literature and act like its their god-given duty to enlighten the masses are just far too obsessed with what they're into and must be lacking in the 'life' department. I don't think I was disagreeing with anything you were saying. Our thoughts can coexist.
Sorry, I was expanding on your thoughts, not debating them.
But, but... I've read 'Contact', and that was written by one of the greatest astrophysicist's to ever live. Clearly, if I read it in a book, it's truth.
PearlWatson
Well-Known Member
I guess since the killer didn't pull out his bow and arrow, he couldn't have have been influenced by the Daily Kos bullseye against a "Blue Dog" Democrat who just voted against Pelosi.
On the scale of bad taste, I think the liberal media trying to pin these killings on Sarah Palin for her "public call to action" map ranks higher than the targets.
Of course it was politically motivated but to blame it on anyone or any group other than the killer himself is just "nigh insufferable."
Duck Rodgers
Well-Known Member
The problem with your ridiculous assumption and categorizing is that huge swaths of people believe them to be truth. Look at any polls on 9/11 or the Kennedy assassination. You're better off assuming the people are more like you, rather than smoking pot aboard the Death Star.
And lets be real here, there aren't that many conspiracy theories out there, so I really don't think it's a slippery slope. It really doesn't take a Jedi Mind trick to differentiate between conspiracy theories. They all have their different qualifications. It's intellectually lazy to just write them off.
Duck Rodgers
Well-Known Member
Trout, how the hell did you ever find Mormonism? You seem to be more the L. Ron Hubbard Scientology type.
BTW, you're only allowed to believe in Orson Scott Card. I hear he has a direct conduit to God. Plus, he is extremely good looking.