12-year-old with air gun dies in Cleveland police shooting

[Jamezz]

Welcome to NRA America filled with dumb conservatives with a warped sense of freedom who embrace wielding a gun and aren't afraid to kill. What a disgrace.

Dude do you even know what the 2nd amendment was actually written for? To protect the People from the Government, including the 'authorities'. I would have shot that cop dead if I even saw the slightest attempt to shoot my kid for playing with a toy gun. This comment is a great example of how America is going from home of the brave to home of the Submissive Herd my friends.

 

[nightmare3983]

Yes, all shootings are the same, so we should just lump them in together. Makes total sense.

People seem all too eager to lump all officer-involved shootings together.

 

[freakazoid]

People seem all too eager to lump all officer-involved shootings together.

Only those with an agenda. Cops have a hard job, so therefore they must be defended in all cases. The truth of the matter, is that some cops have no business being hired into a position of authority in the first place. Automatically defending all cops just because they're cops is an insult to the good ones, which BTW, is MOST cops. Calling all police pigs is just as ignorant as defending questionable actions, just because the person happens to wear a badge.

 

[freakazoid]

Dude do you even know what the 2nd amendment was actually written for? To protect the People from the Government, including the 'authorities'. I would have shot that cop dead if I even saw the slightest attempt to shoot my kid for playing with a toy gun. This comment is a great example of how America is going from home of the brave to home of the Submissive Herd my friends.

As a gun owner, I wouldn't contribute a dime to the NRA. They are about protecting the rights of gun SELLERS, not gun owners, no matter how much they try to convince otherwise. Not sure if you were defending the NRA, or just gun rights in general.

 

[QuinSnydersHair]

Not sure why it baffles you. Most people don't have positive experiences with police, though most people usually are just getting ticketed by them.

Probably because most people are selfish and can't be objective enough to man up and admit that their speeding, drunk, high, ignorant or completely void of communication skills dumb *** was either at fault or a complete ******* when the cop was simply trying to do their job, no doubt.

 

[moevillini]

...You know what? Give up your badge and GTFO out of the police department if your mindset is to error on the side of your own life, even when dealing with a child. Sorry, but when you choose to be a cop, you know that your life may have to be put on the line...

OK I am painting with a broad brush here, but I would say for MOST cops in MOST situations, their own lives are not what's foremost on their minds, but the lives of any bystanders in the area

 

[freakazoid]

Probably because most people are selfish and can't be objective enough to man up and admit that their speeding, drunk, high, ignorant or completely void of communication skills dumb *** was either at fault or a complete ******* when the cop was simply trying to do their job, no doubt.

This is how I feel in the Brown case, although I'm still considering that it was a cold-blooded murder. 12 year old with a toy gun is a completely different story. Cops are just like everybody else, in that some are more cut out for the job than others. Kinda like the guy who got shot for trying to get his license when the cop asked for it. People react differently in these situations, and you can't just let the bullets fly at the slightest hint of trouble. Itchy trigger fingers don't belong on the force.

 

[QuinSnydersHair]

This is how I feel in the Brown case, although I'm still considering that it was a cold-blooded murder. 12 year old with a toy gun is a completely different story. Cops are just like everybody else, in that some are more cut out for the job than others. Kinda like the guy who got shot for trying to get his license when the cop asked for it. People react differently in these situations, and you can't just let the bullets fly at the slightest hint of trouble. Itchy trigger fingers don't belong on the force.

I completely agree.

 

[colton]

12 years olds don't act with logic all the time. However, as a parent i think it's my responsibility to teach my children that when a police officer is asking me to do something I probably need to act accordingly.

Yes, I agree with that. But I don't understand why anyone would disagree with my statement that police officers should be trained in and able to use nonlethal force. Why does it have to be an either/or situation? Why not expect parents to teach their children proper behavior AND ALSO teach police officers and give them the tools to respond with nonlethal force?

 

[Gameface]

I find the response that had the 12yo just put the gun on the ground he wouldn't have been shot interesting.

From the story I read the boy was shot as he was reaching for the gun. He never pointed it at police. He very well could have been attempting to put the gun on the ground.

I said it in another thread and it got mostly ignored...but there's no standard protocol for these situations. The commands from the police could have been vague or even contradictory. The boy may have felt that he was complying. The boy may actually have been complying with at least one of the commands being shouted at him.

There needs to be a standard command to begin these sorts of encounters. One that all officers use and that all citizens are familiar with (and know how to respond to safely). We all know about Miranda rights, but we don't have a similar disclaimer at the initiation of contact with police. We need one, badly.

 

[moevillini]

...I said it in another thread and it got mostly ignored...but there's no standard protocol for these situations. The commands from the police could have been vague or even contradictory. The boy may have felt that he was complying. The boy may actually have been complying with at least one of the commands being shouted at him.

There needs to be a standard command to begin these sorts of encounters. One that all officers use and that all citizens are familiar with (and know how to respond to safely). We all know about Miranda rights, but we don't have a similar disclaimer at the initiation of contact with police. We need one, badly.

True. Then again, as a society, we're generally lagging other countries at teaching basic reading and math skills. I'm not sure we'd have any more success with this.

But perhaps tons of public service announcements would be the way to go for something like this.

 

[bigb]

I find the response that had the 12yo just put the gun on the ground he wouldn't have been shot interesting.

From the story I read the boy was shot as he was reaching for the gun. He never pointed it at police. He very well could have been attempting to put the gun on the ground.

I said it in another thread and it got mostly ignored...but there's no standard protocol for these situations. The commands from the police could have been vague or even contradictory. The boy may have felt that he was complying. The boy may actually have been complying with at least one of the commands being shouted at him.

There needs to be a standard command to begin these sorts of encounters. One that all officers use and that all citizens are familiar with (and know how to respond to safely). We all know about Miranda rights, but we don't have a similar disclaimer at the initiation of contact with police. We need one, badly.

I can totally buy into this.
A couple years ago there was a drug take down around the corner from my house, right in the middle of the street. There were at least two officers involved. One would yell "don't move" the same time another was yelling "get on the ground". Then it changed to "keep your hands where I can see them" coinciding with "put your hands on your head".

 

[DutchJazzer]

I'm a private ski and snowboard instructor. And why not in most situations? Why not have a gun with real bullets but another one with rubber? Or a taser? Why always fire live ammunition? I know a high IQ isn't needed to be a police officer, but even they should be able to have the cognitive power to know when to use a gun with rubber bullets compared to real? Given what the Cleveland PD has already released, it's obvious real bullets weren't needed.

the kid who got shot did not have a high iq. neither did his parents.

natural selection BRO

 

[DutchJazzer]

Yep, Dutch, I'm sure you were the sharpest of the sharp at the age of 12.

i might not be the sharpest, but i was thought there are consequences to action.
why is no one blaming the kids or their parents?

 

[Gameface]

the kid who got shot did not have a high iq. neither did his parents.

natural selection BRO

You're disgusting.

 

[freakazoid]

i might not be the sharpest,?

I think it's safe to say that you can remove the might from that sentence.

 

[DutchJazzer]

You're disgusting.

who is to blame the cops?
i think the parents and or the kid!

 

[Gameface]

who is to blame the cops?
i think the parents and or the kid!

It makes you happy that a 12 year old kid was shot by police because you assume he had low IQ? Your assessment of his IQ involved what, exactly?

 

[Sidebottom2beams]

Americans will tell you that if guns were illegal then all the criminals would have them and everyone would be in danger.

Your country sounds better than mine based off your post..... at least in regards to gun use/safety

Australia has a very different culture to the states, which made the process of gun control doable.
The Port Arthur massacre which was the largest killing spree in history until recently pissed off enough people to change things.

You can still get guns here if you don't have a criminal record but you don't need a machine gun to go pig shooting they are of no use so they are banned. If you have a rifle at home it needs to be kept in a safe and the bolt stored somewhere else, that way if a kid gets his hands on a gun the gun is not functional.
If you want a handgun you have to have a reason for having it, I.e work or you need to be part of a shooting club where the gun has to stay for roughly the first 12 months and you have to go to a certain number of shooting events each year or lose your license and your gun.

The prime minister who changed the laws said something which always sticks when I read something like this.
" Because of these laws our police officers will never go to a scene and be outgunned "

These are a laugh.. It is on the John Stewart on Australian gun laws and the US and it shows the difference in thinking

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9pOiOhxujsE
[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TYbY45rHj8w
[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mVuspKSjfgA

 

[VINYLONE]

SMDH

What's this an acronym for?

Welcome to NRA America filled with dumb conservatives with a warped sense of freedom who embrace wielding a gun and aren't afraid to kill. What a disgrace.

Your compartmentalizing the gun rights issue is tiresome. I can assure you that there is a fair share of left leaning democrats that support gun rights. While I am left leaning on some issues, I am hardly a NRA toting conservative. Also, what does a "warped sense of freedom" mean?

In regards to this latest tragedy, it is, indeed a tragedy. Could it have been avoided? Who knows. Without being able to see the video there's no way to know if the shooting was by the book. I can only imagine the regret, if any, the person who called 911 now feels...especially since it's been reported that he or she told the operator that the gun was probably fake. Also, who knows if this information made it to the LEOs.