Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
For a brief period, Mo was killing us. I'm surprised to see he only finished 4-10.
Game thread: jazz play a game in a couple of hours, the Timberpups edition.
- Thread starter mellow
- Start date
For a brief period, Mo was killing us. I'm surprised to see he only finished 4-10.
mellow
Well-Known Member
What? Have you been watching the games lately? Trey has increased his shots in the lane in recent games. In the clippers,broadcast they showed the increase. I didn't understand why until last night they explained The Jazz are screening for him differently in some situations and Quin has been working with Trey to introduce new ways of finishing in the lane. It seems to me to be working out. I thought it was good signs.
I have been critical of Trey, his shooting is atrocious. But I don't think he is peaked yet. Besides, Exum was awful last night. He is not ready, and may not ever be ready so I'm cheering for Trey to succeed.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
I wasn't referencing team 3PT%. That includes subs, PF's, etc. Look down the list of the players who shoot/make the most 3Pt'ers, particularly guards and SF's, and the average is > 38%.
Of the top-60 players in terms of 3PT shots MADE, only Kobe Bryant has a lower percentage than Trey. A couple others are close, but they're bigs (Green, Teletovic). Take it to 70 players and then Carmelo, Vasquez, Mayo and our old friend CJ Miles, join Trey's party.
As a TEAM, Jazz need to be in the 36% range (they're currently 6th worst at 33%). Trey leads the team in 3PT attempts (Hayward is 2nd). So Trey either needs to start shooting better or reduce the number of 3's he attempts.
Last edited:
Yes, Trey "led" the team when they were down. Isn't that important? He was carrying them. Why is that a negative thing? Taller and faster? Really? How long have you been watching basketball? It took Hayward years to put it together, and he still has a way to go. Same for Favors. He's a young man not even 1 year and a half into his career. For ****s sake youve made up your mind about him already?
I don't know if Trey will be a star, or just a career back up in this league. I see potential to go both ways. He's hit big shots this year, and last to win games. Hes shown promising passing ability off the drive. He's also forced his shot, and played horrible defense. If you are ready to give up on him fine, but I still see hope.
framer
Well-Known Member
A few things.
1. If a team is weak in the middle, you can pound it inside, or drive it inside, which we did repeatedly and effectively. Even Slow joe was doing it. Sadly Exum didn't take the hint.
2. The bigs were TIRED from the effort expended the night before. They were lethargic and Trey and Hayward needed to step up. They did big time.
3. Trey has improved remarkably the last few weeks. He SHOULD have a lot more assists, but the bigs are missing a lot of shots or are getting fouled. Much of it comes from teaching Trey to use screens better and driving more effectively. Consequently he looks less tired and is playing with more energy. He is doing EXACTLY what Exum needs to be doing. It also helps that there is a decent offense to provide Trey (and Hayward for that matter) a more consistant framework to work with.
4. The Timberpups suck, but they played almost as good as they are able for the first three quarters.
1. If a team is weak in the middle, you can pound it inside, or drive it inside, which we did repeatedly and effectively. Even Slow joe was doing it. Sadly Exum didn't take the hint.
2. The bigs were TIRED from the effort expended the night before. They were lethargic and Trey and Hayward needed to step up. They did big time.
3. Trey has improved remarkably the last few weeks. He SHOULD have a lot more assists, but the bigs are missing a lot of shots or are getting fouled. Much of it comes from teaching Trey to use screens better and driving more effectively. Consequently he looks less tired and is playing with more energy. He is doing EXACTLY what Exum needs to be doing. It also helps that there is a decent offense to provide Trey (and Hayward for that matter) a more consistant framework to work with.
4. The Timberpups suck, but they played almost as good as they are able for the first three quarters.
fishonjazz
Well-Known Member
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
20-21 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
2023 Award Winner
2024 Award Winner
2025 Award Winner
fishonjazz
Well-Known Member
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
20-21 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
2023 Award Winner
2024 Award Winner
2025 Award Winner
I know
Hayward willed us to the win in this game! Also... even if it was against a weak team, it's refreshing to see lockdown aggressive defense in the closing minutes of the game. We turned them over in 3 out of 4 consecutive possessions. Hayward was denying the pass to Shabazz, all players were playing physical, not letting the wolves to get to their spots and execute their offense, we played the passing lanes and got several steals in a row. It's refreshing to see. Now that we've done it against bad/young teams(Wolves and 76ers) I'd like to start seeing it against better teams down the stretch.
If Trey's great game was really really helpful to the team, should that not show up during the time in which he was playing best and scoring most? Trey was 2/6 in the fourth, meaning his contribution was not that great then, most of it came earlier, yet the Jazz were behind by ten at the end of that earlier period. So Treys' great game did not yield great results. Yes, if he clanked shots it would have been worse but he was not necessarily making the team better.
As to faster and taller, yeah, that is what I think he needs to be a real NBA talent but of course its not going to happen. You cannot be both short and slow for your size and compete at that level. He better shoot a lot better or he is not long for the league. Not writing him off, he can improve the shooting and become a decent backup , maybe a bit better.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
^^
If no one else is scoring and Trey doesn't hit some shots, maybe the Jazz are down by 20. So points only matter if they come during a Jazz run?
If no one else is scoring and Trey doesn't hit some shots, maybe the Jazz are down by 20. So points only matter if they come during a Jazz run?
da ThRONe
Active Member
Burke already has a 5+ game stretch of those numbers. So are you now impressed? Maybe you should do some homework before making statements like that. Trey had an god awful start shooting to open the season but if you take those 10-12 games to start the season away(which does count) his percentages are worlds better.
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
November 18- 26, 5 games, he shot 47% from the feld, and 44% from 3. I was impressed then, and stated so on this board.
It should be noted that this five game stretch was preceded by a 4-15 (.267%) and followed by a 1-6 showung (.167%). The second game of this stretch was a 1-8 showing (12%) as well. This stretch had the Chicago game in it (where he had 10 assists!!!), I remember giving him lots of praise for that one.
There is no other stretch all season where he comes close to those numbers. This 5 game stretch is also not one that happened sequentially from the start of the season, but rather looking for the best 5 game grouping he has had.
Maybe you should stop being a turd. If you take away this stretch, his %'s would hurt your eyes.
Let me see him post those #'s 5 games in a row again, and he'll get my praise again. That is all I was saying.
It should be noted that this five game stretch was preceded by a 4-15 (.267%) and followed by a 1-6 showung (.167%). The second game of this stretch was a 1-8 showing (12%) as well. This stretch had the Chicago game in it (where he had 10 assists!!!), I remember giving him lots of praise for that one.
There is no other stretch all season where he comes close to those numbers. This 5 game stretch is also not one that happened sequentially from the start of the season, but rather looking for the best 5 game grouping he has had.
Maybe you should stop being a turd. If you take away this stretch, his %'s would hurt your eyes.
Let me see him post those #'s 5 games in a row again, and he'll get my praise again. That is all I was saying.
The Fresh Prince
Well-Known Member
Lol lol Trey Burke could part the red sea and you ga- I mean guys would still find ways to hate.
I'm all for upgrading the point guard spot, but right now our sophomore player, 2nd year player that you people don as one of Corbin's veteran mancrushes is one of the most reliable players on the team.
Stop crying.
I'm all for upgrading the point guard spot, but right now our sophomore player, 2nd year player that you people don as one of Corbin's veteran mancrushes is one of the most reliable players on the team.
Stop crying.
freakazoid
Well-Known Member
There are strategic reasons for a rebuilding team to try and stay under the cap. Cap space can be extremely valuable at times when few other teams have it, but besides that it gives you more flexibility to improve the team through trade. Once you're over the cap, you are more limited in improving the team, so you have to try to add as much talent as possible before you hit the cap. Right now the LT is at about 77 million, but in two years the CAP will be 11 million higher than that. That means Utah will be able to spend more and still might be able to take advantage of the benefits of staying under the cap. Building a team is far more complicated than just throwing money at the situation.
-
I find it amusing that we have one group complaining that Utah never spends money, while we have another group who is concerned about us overspending on the players we have given contracts to. Of the top 5 spending teams, only two are relevant right now, with 2 of them being bottom feeders with huge payrolls and very little room to improve. Throwing huge amounts of money around is worthless without smart management.
jumpin bean
Well-Known Member
3 superstars allow you to get players to play for less along with drafting wisely and knowing talent.Spurs are a top team and know how to spend money wisely, but after Duncan Ginobli and Parker are through its still going to be an uphill battle to keep up with the teams that spend the big bucks,fortunately most of these teams don't know what to spend it on,OKC ,Dallas ,Houston,etc, have spent big and are reaping rewards.Its clear that being able to spend more for players gives you an advantage,that's why its the same teams every year contending.
framer
Well-Known Member
I'm stupider for having read any of that. Did you watch the game? Unless you score in the fourth quarter your points don't count? Seriously, hater. . .
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
It's also the character of the superstars. Certainly Cleveland having LBJ, Irving and Love at their salaries doesn't allow them to get other name players to sign for less. SA is paying Parker $12.5M and Duncan $10M. Those guys WANT to win and are willing to "sacrifice" some of their money so SA can have a deep roster. Malone and Stockton could have gotten more money elsewhere. Carmelo and Kobe demanded the max without any regard to how much would be left to spend on teammates. OKC spent big? They let Harden go because they didn't want to cross the tax threshold. The only reason Utah isn't near that level yet is that a few of our starters are still on their rookie deals.
When Utah had a contending team, they were amongst the leaders in terms of total salaries (with Deron, Boozer, Okur and AK). Greg Miller actually paid luxury tax for two years. Of the teams you listed how many have won championships? Dallas in 2011. And what did Cuban do immediately thereafter? He tore apart the roster so he wouldn't have to pay the luxury tax. They barely made the playoffs the next year, then finished 41-41. Houston missed the playoffs in 2011 and then grabbed the #8 seed in 2012. Golden State...remember them having one of the worst records a few years ago? Raptors, Clippers, Portland, Chicago, Memphis, Washington: all teams that missed the playoffs in recent years and got key pieces in the draft.
Did I miss anyone? Oh, Atlanta. Got Horford in 2007. Used their 2008 pick to trade for Johnson. Got Teague #19 the next season (great value). Rest of the roster has largely been assembled via trades and free agency. Guess you'd say they've been "contending" the longest.
Have I proved it's not the same teams EVERY year (outside of SA's incredible run) that are contending? Every team has down years and has to rebuild. Unfortunately, Utah CANNOT attract top-tier FA's. Blame the mountains, blame the Mormons, blame the lack of nudie bars or the lack of a thriving ghetto culture. Whatever the reason, the majority of 20-somethings who have amazing hoop skills aren't demanding to be traded to the Jazz or calling DL and asking when they can sign on the dotted line as a free agent. Jazz HAVE to build through the draft and supplement with mid-tier FA's who generally are either overpaid or have no other options. Well, I guess we do get an occasional oddball who enjoys the family atmosphere in Utah. And that's why DL decided to do a full rebuild, hoping he'd get a superstar in the 2014 or 2015 draft. We just weren't going to contend with a big-3 of Millsap, Hayward and Favors (or Kanter).
freakazoid
Well-Known Member
So Toronto and the Clippers are the teams who contend every year? Those are the only two teams in the top five who are relevant. Honestly, I don't where you think Utah should be spending this money. FAs are not lining up to play here. When small markets get too desperate to improve by throwing money around, Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva get big contracts. At this phase of the rebuild, Utah is developing their young talent and are in position to improve through trade should an opportunity arise. Desperation to improve immediately is a recipe for disaster. I believe Utah will make a significant trade sometime in the next year or two, but they have to be patient in waiting for the right deal, otherwise you end up burning valuable assets needlessly.
-
I'd imagine Cleveland fans are a little sick right now over what they gave up for Love. I have no doubt there are fans on this board who would gladly burn up our assets to trade for Love, while living in some kind of denial that he wouldn't bolt in the offseason. Rebuilds take time, and throwing money around in desperation of improving immediately can turn you into the Knicks in a hurry.
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
Sorry to have diminished your mental capacity, so lets try again. All points are not created equal. If that were so, Carmelo and Marbury and Iverson would have rings on both hands. To repeat: Trey scored 22 of his 26 points before the 4th. In the 4th the Jazz were behind and in great danger of a very embarrassing loss on their home court to the worst team in the league. If Trey's great game was so wonderfully helpful, they should have been up by 20 going into the 4th.
When I watch the games, I see Trey get a lot of open looks. There is a reason for that. Do you understand why that is?