Should Teacher Tenure Be Abolished?

[Gyp Rosetti]

Of all the factors involved in the education of a child the home environment is by far the biggest and it's not even close. I'd love see something where parents get a bonus or tax breaks or something if their kids get good grades. Kind of like what car insurance companies do.

People talk and talk about legislation and changing education and tenure and unions and whatever. Improve the home life and you'll improve education faster than anything else.

I want to kiss Conan so badly right now. Even though it's pointless evolutionarily speaking. This post is so spot on, it's not even close.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Of all the factors involved in the education of a child the home environment is by far the biggest and it's not even close. I'd love see something where parents get a bonus or tax breaks or something if their kids get good grades. Kind of like what car insurance companies do.

People talk and talk about legislation and changing education and tenure and unions and whatever. Improve the home life and you'll improve education faster than anything else.

I agree.
Most, if not all issues with society come back to the family, or even individual level.
The most effective, and yet most difficult and time consuming way to improve issues in society, is to improve the individuals in society.

 

[franklin]

I'll agree with babe in the sense that too many teachers are concerned with being liked or the student's "friend" or they can't manage a class. Or sadly, they think the kids aren't capable or don't care, at least in my experience in an urban setting. That **** pisses me off to no extent because they the teachers simply suck at managing and motivating.

What percent do you suppose are perverted women who are there to check out the young tush?

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

What percent do you suppose are perverted women who are there to check out the young tush?

1%

 

[moevillini]

Of all the factors involved in the education of a child the home environment is by far the biggest and it's not even close. I'd love see something where parents get a bonus or tax breaks or something if their kids get good grades. Kind of like what car insurance companies do....

an intriguing concept! don't have time to look for links now, but I know there are schools that are doing something like this - - probably mainly private schools - - but I have heard of schools rewarding students who meet certain benchmarks (not necessarily just related to grades)

I agree.
Most, if not all issues with society come back to the family, or even individual level.
The most effective, and yet most difficult and time consuming way to improve issues in society, is to improve the individuals in society.

and it's ironic, but isn't that at least part of the purpose of the educational system in the first place?

 

[Jazzfan_Bayamon 2]

What percent do you suppose are perverted women who are there to check out the young tush?

Not as many as there should be

 

[CONAN]

an intriguing concept! don't have time to look for links now, but I know there are schools that are doing something like this - - probably mainly private schools - - but I have heard of schools rewarding students who meet certain benchmarks (not necessarily just related to grades)

Some schools are rewarding students with money. Obviously, there are other rewards good students get just for being good students like scholarships or the development of a work ethic or what have you. But I think it's more effective to reward parents. Get them involved. Even if it starts with extrinsic motivation (bribery).

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Some schools are rewarding students with money. Obviously, there are other rewards good students get just for being good students like scholarships or the development of a work ethic or what have you. But I think it's more effective to reward parents. Get them involved. Even if it starts with extrinsic motivation (bribery).

I definitely see the positives but also recognize how this could open Pandora's box. How many borderline honor roll students' parents would come in offering money (less than they'd receive of course) to teachers to bring them up to honor roll to meet said expectations?

 

[Scat]

I definitely see the positives but also recognize how this could open Pandora's box. How many borderline honor roll students' parents would come in offering money (less than they'd receive of course) to teachers to bring them up to honor roll to meet said expectations?

Parents harassing teachers over grades was the first thought that popped into my mind when I read the suggestion.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Parents harassing teachers over grades was the first thought that popped into my mind when I read the suggestion.

Yep.

 

[CONAN]

Parents already harass teachers over grades.

 

[Scat]

Parents already harass teachers over grades.

Granted, but it would be much worse with a financial incentive attached.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

granted, but it would be much worse with a financial incentive attached.

Much.

 

[franklin]

Boring. Back to predators. Do most these women look more like Pamela Rogers Turner and Carrie McCandless, or more like Traci Tapp?

 

[CONAN]

Granted, but it would be much worse with a financial incentive attached.

So what if it is? More teacher/parent interaction is a good thing.

 

[The Thriller]

I definitely see the positives but also recognize how this could open Pandora's box. How many borderline honor roll students' parents would come in offering money (less than they'd receive of course) to teachers to bring them up to honor roll to meet said expectations?

Parents buying teachers off for grades?

What a great idea!

I'm totally going to do that!

 

[moevillini]

this article is from a couple years ago, and it speaks of rewarding students, not parents, but it's along the lines of what we're discussing:
https://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2008-01-27-grades_N.htm

...in at least a dozen states this school year, students who bring home top marks can expect more than just gratitude. Examples:

•Baltimore schools chief Andres Alonso last week promised to spend more than $935,000 to give high school students as much as $110 each to improve their scores on state graduation exams.

•In New York City, about 9,000 fourth- and seventh-graders in 60 schools are eligible to win as much as $500 for improving their scores on the city's English and math tests, given throughout the school year.

•In suburban Atlanta, a pair of schools last week kicked off a program that will pay 8th- and 11th-grade students $8 an hour for a 15-week "Learn & Earn" after-school study program (the federal minimum wage is currently $5.85).

In most cases, the efforts are funded privately through corporate or philanthropic donors.

The most ambitious experiment began in September, when seven states — Arkansas, Alabama, Connecticut, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Virginia and Washington — won spots in an Exxon/Mobil-funded program that, in most cases, pays students $100 for each passing grade on advanced placement (AP) college-prep exams.

It's an effort to get low-income and minority students interested in the courses, says Tommie Sue Anthony, president of the Arkansas Advanced Initiative for Math and Science. "We still have students who are not sure of the value, who are not willing to take the courses," she says. "Probably the incentives will make a difference with those students."

Gregg Fleisher of the National Math and Science Initiative, which runs the seven-state program, says the effort is modeled on a program adopted by Dallas in the 1995-96 school year that saw AP course-taking jump substantially. That program is now statewide.

While many educators would blanch at offering kids cash for good grades, Fleisher and others say the idea is simple: "It's an incentive to get them to basically make the right decision and choose a more rigorous class," he says. "This teaches them that if they work at something very hard and have a lot of support, they can do something they didn't think they could do."

An analysis of the Texas program last month by Cornell economist C. Kirabo Jackson found that it linked to a 30% rise in the number of students with high SAT and ACT scores and an 8% rise in college-going students....

and in many districts there are rewards for parent involvement (can be as simple as attending a parent-teacher conference), perfect attendance, no tardies, etc. - these are things that are less subjective than rewarding grades, so there's less opportunity for parents to harrass the teacher - but they are still things that generally make a difference in a student's achievement level

I know of private schools that give parents a discount on tuition if the parents volunteer a certain number of hours each semester

 

[The Thriller]

Some schools are rewarding students with money. Obviously, there are other rewards good students get just for being good students like scholarships or the development of a work ethic or what have you. But I think it's more effective to reward parents. Get them involved. Even if it starts with extrinsic motivation (bribery).

Where does the money come from?

So let me get this straight....

#1 We're taking money from citizens to pay for public schools.
#2 We then take x amount of money that COULD be spent on salaries, upgrading facilities, buying materials, etc and take that money to give to a certain amount of students/parents who go to that particular public school/district.

WTF????????

So does the money given back to these "good students" exceed the amount taken from the parents of the good students? By how much? How do other citizens who don't participate in public schools (parents of private educated/home taught kids) yet pay the taxes feel about this?

Who decides what the standard is? The principal? What is the standard? A GPA of 3? 3.5?

How much money is being spent? How much money is being sacrificed for this financial incentive? Is it proving to be more effective than raising salaries or finding more interactive materials/computer programs? Where's the line for funding extra-curricular activities and the arts and giving out these handouts? Obviously, the school can't fund everything. So where's the line?

What happens when these handouts lose their effect? First off, what cases have proven that these handouts have any positive effect? What happens when 100 bucks isn't good enough? Do we raise it another 100? Do we raise it every time it loses its effectiveness? Wow, students and parents surely aren't going to take advantage of this... *Sarcasm* Here in 2 years they'll basically be demanding an additional salary from the schools.

Basically, will these idea turn into another expensive giveaway?

 

[moevillini]

thriller, read the post immediately above yours - as the article states, the money in most of the programs cited comes from private sources

 

[CONAN]

Where does the money come from?

So let me get this straight....

#1 We're taking money from citizens to pay for public schools.
#2 We then take x amount of money that COULD be spent on salaries, upgrading facilities, buying materials, etc and take that money to give to a certain amount of students/parents who go to that particular public school/district.

WTF????????

So does the money given back to these "good students" exceed the amount taken from the parents of the good students? By how much? How do other citizens who don't participate in public schools (parents of private educated/home taught kids) yet pay the taxes feel about this?

Who decides what the standard is? The principal? What is the standard? A GPA of 3? 3.5?

How much money is being spent? How much money is being sacrificed for this financial incentive? Is it proving to be more effective than raising salaries or finding more interactive materials/computer programs? Where's the line for funding extra-curricular activities and the arts and giving out these handouts? Obviously, the school can't fund everything. So where's the line?

What happens when these handouts lose their effect? First off, what cases have proven that these handouts have any positive effect? What happens when 100 bucks isn't good enough? Do we raise it another 100? Do we raise it every time it loses its effectiveness? Wow, students and parents surely aren't going to take advantage of this... *Sarcasm* Here in 2 years they'll basically be demanding an additional salary from the schools.

Basically, will these idea turn into another expensive giveaway?

A few options here. You can do a tax break. There is plenty of money being spent on programs to improve student success. You can just pull from that. That's just a few off the top of my head. No need to create new spending here. So answers most of your questions right there.

It's not gonna work for everyone but it is going to work for some. You'll get more parents involved that wouldn't have otherwise. Sure, it's extrinsic to start with but that's the way you gotta work with some folks. It's much the same with student behavior and rewards and the concept of fading. You'd get to the point where you wouldn't need to pay parents anymore.

As far as standards you start with passing grades and go up from there incrementally. Again, not exceeding anything we're not already spending so no additional costs.

The bottom line is a better family is the best hope for better education so why not concentrate most of your efforts and money where it will do the most good.