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Following Potential 2025 Draftees

seattlejazzfan said:
Cody is a good comp (both guys who had low production but nba physical attributes), but he'd be a rich man's Cody in the sense that he's a legit vertical/explosive above the rim athlete where Williams is a nice athlete who really doesn't get on top of the rim except on the rare occasion and he's certainly not "explosive", he has an elite build (no homo) as opposed to Williams ultra thin and weak frame, and i trust his shooting stroke more than Williams.
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Polar opposite types of wing prospects.
 
KqWIN said:
Polar opposite types of wing prospects.
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Not really though. both are going tend to be more spot up shooters who will run the floor, and ideally guys who can defend multiple positions with their length. lengthy 3 and D type dudes. because of Bryant's bulk, he'll be able to guard bigger guys more effectively.
 
seattlejazzfan said:
Not really though. both are going tend to be more spot up shooters and ideally guys who can defend multiple positions with their length. lengthy 3 and D guys.
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The only thing remarkable about what Cody produced in college was his scoring. His production in other areas was completely non existent. For Bryant, his scoring is completely unremarkable, but his production in other areas is great. Why even make comparisons on production if we don't care what kind of production is? Their production is completely opposite of each other. Besides their production, the most obvious thing about each player is the also complete opposite. Bryant has an NBA body, nobody can deny that. He is probably going to weigh in 40-50 lbs heavier than Cody did at the combine. It is his greatest strength as a prospect. OTOH, we all know what Cody's biggest weakness is.

The fact that Cody cannot score in the NBA does not make him a great 3&D prospect. It doesn't change the player he was at Colorado (which was a complete opposite of Bryant), it doesn't change that physically they are on the opposite ends of the spectrum, and it certainly doesn't mean he has the strengths that Carter Bryant has. It's a horrid comp based on production, physical profile, and playstyle.
 
I've started to warm up to Maluach a bit. The issue for me was block rate. I do wonder if guys see him and just say "nope". I'd want to see the rim protection and advanced stuff.

By warming up I think anywhere in the 9-15 range is a good value.

Obviously he is likely off the board for us unless we landed 6 or something and had a deal for Walker... or unless we moved Walker and landed a late lotto pick.
 
KqWIN said:
The only thing remarkable about what Cody produced in college was his scoring. His production in other areas was completely non existent. For Bryant, his scoring is completely unremarkable, but his production in other areas is great. Why even make comparisons on production if we don't care what kind of production is? Their production is completely opposite of each other. Besides their production, the most obvious thing about each player is the also complete opposite. Bryant has an NBA body, nobody can deny that. He is probably going to weigh in 40-50 lbs heavier than Cody did at the combine. It is his greatest strength as a prospect. OTOH, we all know what Cody's biggest weakness is.

The fact that Cody cannot score in the NBA does not make him a great 3&D prospect. It doesn't change the player he was at Colorado (which was a complete opposite of Bryant), it doesn't change that physically they are on the opposite ends of the spectrum, and it certainly doesn't mean he has the strengths that Carter Bryant has. It's a horrid comp based on production, physical profile, and playstyle.
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sometimes i forget most people have no clue how down i was on williams prior to the draft, after the draft and still am. i mention that because:

i should have clarified that what i was saying about Williams applied in the sense that if he's going to make it, it will need to be as a 3 and D prospect, who can do a little bit over everything else - rebounding, some playmaking, etc. which is pretty much exactly what Bryant projects as - just a bigger version. Williams ball skills are probably a tad better at the same stage, while Bryant is bigger and a better defender. Williams was also a better shooter at Colorado, but with Bryant's stroke i'm not going to hold shooting against him as it relates to this comparison.

again, bottom line, if either makes it in the league, it will be cutting off the ball, defending multiple positions and making spot up threes.
 
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seattlejazzfan said:
sometimes i forget most people have no clue how down i was on williams prior to the draft, after the draft and still am. i mention that because:

i should have clarified that what i was saying about Williams applied in the sense that if he's going to make it, it will need to be as a 3 and D prospect, who can do a little bit over everything else - rebounding, some playmaking, etc. which is pretty much exactly what Bryant projects as - just a bigger version. Williams ball skills are probably a tad better at the same stage, while Bryant is bigger and a better defender. Williams was also a better shooter at Colorado, but with Bryant's stroke i'm not going to hold shooting against him as it relates to this comparison.

again, bottom line, if either makes it in the league, it will be cutting off the ball, defending multiple positions and making spot up threes.
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It doesn't matter how much you liked or disliked either player, it's still a horrid comparison. I don't think a lack of belief in Cody's scoring makes him similar to Bryant. Williams can be considered a 3&D prospect just by default because he sucks at everything. He was in no way shape or form a 3 and D prospect in the same way that Carter Bryant is. It's like drawing the comparison between Hendricks and Williams. One guy is in this role because he's good at it, the other is there because he can't do the only thing he could do in college. And besides their actual games, physically they are night and day. I don't mean to be a stickler about comparisons, but it becomes very questionable when one guy's greatest strength is directly another guy's biggest weakness. You yourself said it was based on low production and NBA physical attributes. It's pretty obvious that their production is completely different and also that their NBA physical attributes are completely different. 3 and D is the most common role in the NBA, it shouldn't be that hard to find a comparison where the prospects aren't direct opposites of each other.

To summarize this all, I will just take your direct quote from this thread:

seattlejazzfan said:
not if they each become what you hope they are. williams ceiling would be as a high volume scoring, playmaking, wing. Hendricks would be as a rebounding, rim protecting, floor stretching big.
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The Midnight

Thread 'Is Cody too similar to Hendricks?'

So I was thinking about this.

Both are lengthy, athletic, can knock down open shots and have the tools to be elite defenders.

But they both lack the ability to create for themselves. Lack the dribbling ability and the ‘wiggle’. You can’t give them the ball and say ‘go get me a basket’ in the final minutes of the game.

That’s what separates the likes of Tatum and Brown to the rest of the League.

Are we just doubling up on 2 guys that are very similar but lack the shot creation ability that All Stars have?

Are they just nothing more than premium 3 and D guys?

Would they ever develop...
 
At the core of Cody/Bryant convo, worst case scenario they are both the same player because they both aren't good enough to do anything other than guard and shoot spot up 3's, so if you are comping their ultimate NBA roles to be the same, I get it.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
At the core of Cody/Bryant convo, worst case scenario they are both the same player because they both aren't good enough to do anything other than guard and shoot spot up 3's, so if you are comping their ultimate NBA roles to be the same, I get it.
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Right now, Cody isn't strong enough to guard 4s effectively, let alone switch up against 5s. Bryant should be able to do those things. I haven't gotten a look at Bryant's handle. He can pass a bit though.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
Right now, Cody isn't strong enough to guard 4s effectively, let alone switch up against 5s. Bryant should be able to do those things. I haven't gotten a look at Bryant's handle. He can pass a bit though.
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Yeah….even within the 3&D universe these guys are completely different from a physical standpoint. The thing that stands out most about Bryant isn’t even is play, it’s his NBA frame and athleticism.
 
idiot said:
So (at least from the part devoted to the Jazz), the idea is:
  • Consider trading out for future draft capital if don't get top 2 (chance of Ace or VJ becoming HIM is too low)
  • Big gap after 4 in the draft
Hmmm ...
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For me, I would debate Ace vs. Tre Johnson for #3. You're not going to get your #1 option if you don't get a top-2 pick this year. However, you can get a solid #2 option and tank again next year. The safest pick at #3 would be Tre Johnson, imo, since Tre will be a big-time scorer and floor spacer who fits nicely next to any of the wings and guards at the top of next year's draft. At the moment, Tre is more versatile than Ace, and he's a better ball mover. Ace ultimately has more upside and the potential to be an unstoppable shooter and is worth the swing.

VJ Edgecombe is going to be a solid defensive player in the NBA, imo--think Josh Okogie or Larry Hughes. Offensively, his limited size and lack of burst off the dribble (likely due to confidence in his handle) are going to limit him to a primarily off-ball combo-guard. Even physical comps like Monta Ellis or Jordan Clarkson showed more creativity and change of direction/pace off the dribble right now than VJ. If you notice how Collin Sexton has a pretty basic handle and limited wiggle, but beats guys with effort, I think VJ will at least be a better version of Sexton due to his size and major bounce. But at the top of the draft, I want bonafide scoring. Also, VJ's rim finishing is mediocre by percentage.

Everything might come together for VJ, but it's a pretty big risk, imo. Realistically, I think the Jazz would end up going with Ace unless someone else just completely blows them away in workouts.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
Right now, Cody isn't strong enough to guard 4s effectively, let alone switch up against 5s. Bryant should be able to do those things. I haven't gotten a look at Bryant's handle. He can pass a bit though.
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I mean, Bryant can't do anything at the college level, or he has not been given the ability to show he can. He's going to be a big project. Maybe he can defend at the NBA level, but most rookiea, even gifted ones, can't guard in the nba
 
I think Denim should stay another year. His play overall was subpar. Plus BYU would have a chance to go even farther with the new additions. Denim needs to work on his body and his shooting.
 
Whatever Jazz do they need to draft size
No more undersized guards etc please
Collier may be an exception cause he's built like a tank and is very strong
 
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