You eat cakes shaped like penises
10/01 Jazz Practice Notes
- Thread starter BabyPeterzz
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You eat cakes shaped like penises
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Well, we do know Fes doesn't like to move. So there's hope of resigning him if he has a good year.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
The bottom line is Fes isn't getting anything more than the MLE no matter how good he does this year. That's a contract we could match (or exceed) as a free agent. I doubt he'd ever get it, but the Jazz do still hold the cards in that limited sense. And if they concluded Fes had more potential than Tomic, they would have Tomic as a trade chip. This situation isn't really that bleak. Long point short: the better Fes is, the more options we have to do good things for the team even if that means losing Fes.
Zerol
Active Member
If there is a team that is under the cap, they can offer him a contract in the $6M to $7M range. If Fegan and Fes don't bother to let the Jazz match, they can just take someone's (like Houston) MLE and be gone. Of course, that's assuming the no major changes to the current CBA.
NotDeadYet
Well-Known Member
As has been said, if they see Fes as more valuable than Tomic at C, plus factor in Memo is already 31 and near the end of his contract, they'd be willing to pay more for Fes's services.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
Right. But practically speaking, nobody is going to offer Fes that money. Forgetting the CBA nightmares, he'd potentially (unlikely) have capped teams offering him MLE money. Nobody with Cap Space is going past the MLE to sign him because there will be far better players to spend that money on. So if the Jazz really wanted Fes, they do have the leverage to make it happen. But at 6 or 7 million a year, he'd have to be extra super special to warrant the commitment and how likely is that?
Point is, the Jazz should be able to match (or exceed) any reasonable offer Fes might get. It's all about whether he wants to come back.
No, Memo's contract is up in 2012. His (horribly retarded) 2 year extension begins this year. It will be very problematic to re-sign Fes given that the Jazz will likely have to give up AK in the process if the Jazz have any hope of being under the LT/hard cap in what looks to be a significantly more conservative and strict CBA.
Sneakers
Well-Known Member
First of all, we are giving too much cred to Fesenko already. We're worrying about hypothetical situations based on the idea that he might be a player this year.
Personally, I fully believe in his potential.. I'm a Fesenko fan. Will he be an asset and a good player this year?? That remains to be seen. I think that Deron Williams is the team... not the dude who is an ******* to everyone he doesn't know, but the Deron Williams the player. Okur, Fesenko, whatever... this team is dependent on the real players and leaders, Deron and Millsap, to get us anywhere. Anything else is gravy. Should we be worried about losing Fesenko? Maybe.. but I really don't feel like he is the bees-knees - the main squeeze in this formula.
I feel like Matthews moving on is a blessing in disguise. Mat would have just been another carry over from the Boozer era. It wasn't hard to tell, in my opinion, that he had already become full of himself. How else would a player in his situation be? He was an undrafted rookie that, for some reason, had become a star to the media and many other teams in the league.
I am all for players that buy into the system and the team concept as a whole. Players that will drop their egos and understand that they are simply a sum of the parts. No player makes a team. You will never convince me that one single player can elevate a team to the greatest of heights. Don't be mistaken, Michael Jordan's legacy helped pave the way for this current generation of selfish players that believe they are the end all be all. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to take away anything from Jordan and all his accomplishments. As non Chicago fans of that era, we just see it from a singular perspective. Jordan was a great player, but don't ever think that he wasn't part of a team concept the whole time. Only as we analyze it backwards do we create this sort of legend and mystic about M-J and his feats.
Maybe I am wrong; I am relatively young as an NBA fan. I love to read about past history, but I am more interested in witnessing the history that this current group of players and elites are creating. To me right now, Kevin Durant is the only player that could be capable of exceeding the team concept and personally carrying a team to greatness. I only say this because I have been able to witness Durant as a player and have seen his complete talent on display. At the same time, what has Durant accomplished? What did Lebron James ever accomplish in his time as the man in Cleveland? Nothing yet and nothing at all, respectively. Until I am proven wrong, I will believe that talent, first and foremost, but also chemistry are the most important things in a team.
I really believe that this current Jazz team has a chance to excel. Still, I feel like some of our players will hold themselves back based on past, negative experiences, and never really smell the coffee and see things for what they are. That's what I hate about so many Jazz teams.. I feel like no one has been holding them back but themselves.
Personally, I fully believe in his potential.. I'm a Fesenko fan. Will he be an asset and a good player this year?? That remains to be seen. I think that Deron Williams is the team... not the dude who is an ******* to everyone he doesn't know, but the Deron Williams the player. Okur, Fesenko, whatever... this team is dependent on the real players and leaders, Deron and Millsap, to get us anywhere. Anything else is gravy. Should we be worried about losing Fesenko? Maybe.. but I really don't feel like he is the bees-knees - the main squeeze in this formula.
I feel like Matthews moving on is a blessing in disguise. Mat would have just been another carry over from the Boozer era. It wasn't hard to tell, in my opinion, that he had already become full of himself. How else would a player in his situation be? He was an undrafted rookie that, for some reason, had become a star to the media and many other teams in the league.
I am all for players that buy into the system and the team concept as a whole. Players that will drop their egos and understand that they are simply a sum of the parts. No player makes a team. You will never convince me that one single player can elevate a team to the greatest of heights. Don't be mistaken, Michael Jordan's legacy helped pave the way for this current generation of selfish players that believe they are the end all be all. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to take away anything from Jordan and all his accomplishments. As non Chicago fans of that era, we just see it from a singular perspective. Jordan was a great player, but don't ever think that he wasn't part of a team concept the whole time. Only as we analyze it backwards do we create this sort of legend and mystic about M-J and his feats.
Maybe I am wrong; I am relatively young as an NBA fan. I love to read about past history, but I am more interested in witnessing the history that this current group of players and elites are creating. To me right now, Kevin Durant is the only player that could be capable of exceeding the team concept and personally carrying a team to greatness. I only say this because I have been able to witness Durant as a player and have seen his complete talent on display. At the same time, what has Durant accomplished? What did Lebron James ever accomplish in his time as the man in Cleveland? Nothing yet and nothing at all, respectively. Until I am proven wrong, I will believe that talent, first and foremost, but also chemistry are the most important things in a team.
I really believe that this current Jazz team has a chance to excel. Still, I feel like some of our players will hold themselves back based on past, negative experiences, and never really smell the coffee and see things for what they are. That's what I hate about so many Jazz teams.. I feel like no one has been holding them back but themselves.
I really think you are off base with your analysis. Do have personal experience that Matthews was full of himself or DW is an jerk to anyone he doesn't know. I've been an NBA fan for 40 years so my advice is relax, enjoy the players talent and try not to hold people to a high standard when you do not even know them.
Exactly! Yes, he came in better shape. But does he have the skills is a bigger question? He has a lot to prove. Averaging 3 ppg on 43% shooting when Okur went down is not exactly very encouraging. Let's see if can even be a half decent back-up this year first before discussing these mid-level or above mid-level scenarios. He is yet to beat out Elson for a back-up job.
They have plenty of centers, and Fesenko will be unrestricted. Portland won't make him an offer.
Okur's contract is very good for a starting center of his caliber. If he were healthy, he'd be our starting 5.
GVC
Well-Known Member
To the team's detriment.
Big Al + Millsap provides more defense than it gives up in offense compared to Okur + Big Al. Okur should be relegated to the bench for the next two seasons, unless he proves to be a better player than Millsap or Big Al (he's not, and it's not really that close).
Big Al + Millsap combo does not give up any offense either compared to Okur + Big Al. It's our best starting C/PF combo regardless of Okur's health status.
You don't extend role players (even if they're higher in the chain) that have major flaws past 30. You just don't do it. Let the contract expire, see how it goes, and see how the future might play out because players sometimes just fall apart. Okur fell apart, he's past 30, he's never been good at protecting the rim, why extend him a year before you have to? Okur wasn't going anywhere, and if he did, can a guy that fails to meet the basic criteria for his position (interior presence) be that important?
I bitched and moaned about it when it happened, and it turns out I'm absolutely right, regardless of whether Memo had a practically career-ending injury.
I bitched and moaned about it when it happened, and it turns out I'm absolutely right, regardless of whether Memo had a practically career-ending injury.
And it's not even close. Okur was generally just awful last year. I'd rather see Sap/AJ or Fes/AJ or Fes/Sap or really anything, as long as Okur is on the bench.
Jazz4ever
Well-Known Member
I agree. You know the Jefferson/Milsap frontcourt is way too small to beat LA which is what it will eventually come down to. Its the best lineup against 90% of the league though so am in no way saying Sap is expendable.
Starting Millsap and Jefferson, we have a very short starting lineup. Okur has been a very solid post defender, and opens up the court for Jefferson to a much greater degree than Millsap would. However, that lineup might not be mobile enough against some of the faster 4s in the league.
If the goalisthe Lakers, we are much morelikely to beat them starting Okur/Jefferson than Millsap/Jefferson.
Every time we got destroyed by LA, it was Odom and Gasol that did the damage. Bynum played no role whatsoever in their victory. And against Odom and Gasol, I think Jefferson and Millsap are better than any combination involving Okur. Memo just does not provide inside presence and is simply too slow to guard mobile athletic guys like either Gasol or Odom. If, contrary to last 3 years, Bynum does play against us at full strength, then we could counter him with Memo off the bench. But against Gasol and Odom, the guys that beat us last 3 times, Al and Millsap will give us better chance than any other combination we have available now or had available in last 3 years.
I hate to think what you guys would give Fes if he had come into camp losing 30 lbs. It is nice that Fes came into camp in shape finally but Fes has a lot to prove before anyone considers giving him the MLE. I hope Fes can actually stay on the court and produce for us which would be a HUGE bonus. However, until he consistently does produces I think the Jazz will hold onto their money.