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110 mil year old dinosaur mummy discovered.

babe said:
that is essential to correlating Science with the Biblical account.
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You simply can't. Bible is so off the truth that it is laughable.

For example: "And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars"

So he made light first... without the stars. Than he made stars after there was already daylight and nighlight.... come on...lol.

"And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind."

Thats biggest BS which can't correlate with scientific evidence. Birds appeared on earth millions of years after first land inhabiting animals emerged from the seas.

“I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the Earth.… Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life.” (Genesis 9:11-17)

We perfectly know that what rainbow is and that no gods sets them in the clouds and that obviously rainbows were present way before "biblical flood" ( No scientific proof of flood either)

I could go on with more as pretty much every statement in all religious books clashes with modern science - simply explainable by inability of people at that time to understand anything, but whats the point??? Unless you open your eyes and understand how delusional you are and accept the facts and free yourself from religious superstitions ( like me and Siro did ).
 
babe said:
While I'm not sure what you meant with the "5700 days old" part, I am aware of the translation issues and the treatment of time spans within the Hebrew language allowing if not requiring the sense of phases or periods rather than 24-hour "days".
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if it is days, the sun was created on the 4th "day!"
so if the sun was created on the 4th "day" how did we tell days apart on the first 3 "days"

as we need the sun to define earth days!
 
babe said:
ah, the famous "reality is a hologram" view of the cosmos.

"We have dreamed the world.... and the dream exists only in our minds....."

a chemist puzzling over the formula for benzene, trying to create a model of how the six carbons and six hydrogens conformed to ideas of bonding, spent months fruitlessly, unable to draw the picture.... until one night he dreamed of the molecule catching it's own tail and forming a circle. The dreamed arrangement turned out to be the one solution to the bonding requirements.....

Our minds are wonderful tools, nobody knows how they really work.... or don't work, in some cases.... it is the "not working" pathologies that reveal to us the things our minds actually do, clearly showing the deficit that results from the injury or failure to form properly.....

IMO, the purely rational, objective "mind" is one example we can learn from, that reveals how a fully-functioning mind transcends the limitations of little logical formulations like "evolution", which essentially hijacks human creativity and reduces it to a wreck.

The logic of ancient shepherds puzzling over the creation may be another example of reason gone wrong, but IMO we don't do much better trying to hammer reality into our logic today, either.

I have no problem being a devout believer in a creator/God with all the knowledge we have attained, including DNA technological equipment/techniques we now have, and more. I don't know how to put limits on the possibles.
But I see no need to hold the biblical chronology as either true or necessary for the existence of a God we have never fully understood. We have just been children babbling in the sandbox, and now beginning to learn a few things.

Charles Darwin wrote within the text of "Origin of Species" that his book in no way should compromise faith in God. A few religious scientists have always been around saying the geological records and scales of time do not impede faith in God, and in fact it is a tenet of logic that a failure to demonstrate the existence of God, however we try to define "God", is not a proof of "non-existence" of some form of "God".

But hey, ideological adherents to any of the Marxist assertions, including denial of "God", are by their own system taught to be determined liars to advance their cause. Pretty useless to throw any pearls out to that class of intellectual wretches......
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Reading this, I wondered if the universe as a hologram and the universe as a simulation were actually the same theory. Apparently they're not, and the topic raised was the universe as a simulation.

https://www.quora.com/Are-the-simulation-universe-and-holographic-universe-the-same-theory

You're familiar with the German term zeitgeist, loosely translated as "spirit of the age". And often described as the notion that their are "ideas in the air" so to speak, so that guys like Wallace and Darwin essentially came up with the theory of evolution at the same time. And it can also manifest as art presaging ideas adopted some time after by, for example, science. So it strikes me as very revealing of a certain zeitgeist of our own age that the Matrix film trilogy, in which the protagonists were living in a simulated universe and unaware of that fact, influenced popular culture just as the universe as simulation was influencing physics and philosophy. In comment 11 of this thread, I left a link to a lively debate concerning the simulated universe theory. At any rate, both ideas are intellectually engaging, but the holographic universe is not quite the same as the simulated universe idea....
 
babe said:
a chemist puzzling over the formula for benzene, trying to create a model of how the six carbons and six hydrogens conformed to ideas of bonding, spent months fruitlessly, unable to draw the picture.... until one night he dreamed of the molecule catching it's own tail and forming a circle. The dreamed arrangement turned out to be the one solution to the bonding requirements.....
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Love it! This is also an example of a synchronicity, the correspondence of an event in the inner world with the development of an idea obtained in the outer world. A meaningful coincidence, the very definition of synchronicity. The idea was in the air, so to speak, when I was in grad school, and my M.A. thesis explored the collaboration between Nobel Prize winning physicist Wolfgang Pauli and pioneer psychotherapist Carl Jung in developing the idea of synchronicity. Historian of science Arthur Koestler was to later explore the same collaboration in his book "The Roots of Coincidence". It was Jung's seminal essay "Synchronicity: An Acausal Connecting Principle" that essentially introduced the idea. I have often thought that the person or persons who could incorporate synchronicity into our understanding of reality would win a Nobel Prize.

In a way, all so-called psychic phenomena are examples of synchronicity, if one stops to think about it. They are all meaningful coincidences. Once, on a warm Sprng day in junior high, I began to doze off. Suddenly, the words "fire drill" appeared in my minds eye. It startled me and I shook off the sleepiness. About 10 seconds later the fire alarm went off. Telepathy, reading the mind of whoever was about to throw the alarm? Precognition, sensing a future event a few seconds prior to the event? None of the above? Still, by definition it was a synchronicity, a meaningful coincidence, a correspondence that does not appear to be causal, between an inner thought, and an outer event in the real world. Like the chemist who had that dream, and then when awake realized the structure of benzene. Of course, it is also an example of how the mind itself is at work problem solving even when we are unconscious, which is how you are relating it, as an example of the mysteries of how our minds do work. It's just that it is often also commonly cited as an example of synchronicity, a meaningful coincidence.

My favorite example of a synchronicity from Jung's own writings was his story of the woman who was in his office describing to Jung her dream of a scarab beetle, when, into the open window of Jung's office flew a scarab beetle, which landed on her head! One cannot draw a causal connection between the dream, from her inner world, and the event in the outer world represented by the arrival of a scarab beetle. Which helped suggest to Jung that there was an acausal connecting principle at work, suggesting perhaps that both our inner worlds and outer worlds were emergent from something that contained both worlds at its roots. BTW, in the example you cite above, he dreamed of a snake grabbing its own tail, and that triggered his eureka moment once he awoke.

I can draw upon many synchronicities from my own life experiences. Most all of us can. I think it bespeaks of a greater reality that we so far are unable to quite wrap our minds around. Here's the story of the scarab beetle:

https://www.firstparishnorwell.org/sermons/scarab.htm

Well, actually, Jung's description of the event was not quite the same as I remembered and described above:


"Jung's most famous case of synchronicity in psychotherapy was with the woman patient who recited a dream she had had in which she was given a costly piece of jewelry, a golden scarab (beetle). While she was relating the dream Jung heard something tapping at the window from outside. Jung opened the window and in flew a scarbaeid beetle which he caught in his hand, its gold-green color resembling that of the golden scarab in the woman's dream. He handed the beetle to his patient and said, "Here is your scarab."
 
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Looks really cool and reminds me of common depictions of an Anklyosaurus.
 
MVP said:
You can have as open mind as you want but neither of religious books are in sync with science. It is quite opposite - they are as far from science as "A Thousand and one nights" or "Brother Grimm's fairy tales"
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As with all religious texts it depends on the interpretation. Were the "days" in Genesis meant to be literal 24-hour days? Or were they epochs of some unknowable time-frame? Was it 1000 years is a day? Or is that used to simply imply that a day is a much longer time than humans reckon it to be? Much like the use of multiples of 7 or 12 in the bible used to colloquially at that time to imply a "metric-****-ton", as we might say it today.
 
Stoked said:
Looks really cool and reminds me of common depictions of an Anklyosaurus.
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I find it awesome that it gives us some idea of the actual skin and outer look of the dinosaur, as well as the possibility of knowing the color scheme. I think we have gotten fairly close with petrified imprints of dino-skin that have been found, and such, but to have one "in the flesh" so to speak is fairly awesome.
 
LogGrad98 said:
As with all religious texts it depends on the interpretation. Were the "days" in Genesis meant to be literal 24-hour days? Or were they epochs of some unknowable time-frame? Was it 1000 years is a day? Or is that used to simply imply that a day is a much longer time than humans reckon it to be? Much like the use of multiples of 7 or 12 in the bible used to colloquially at that time to imply a "metric-****-ton", as we might say it today.
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15 3/4 billions of years are those 6 "days"

Now you can take cosmology, paleontology, archaeology, and look at the history of the world, and see whether or not they match up "day-by-day" with genesis and they DO!
 
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MVP said:
You can have as open mind as you want but neither of religious books are in sync with science. It is quite opposite - they are as far from science as "A Thousand and one nights" or "Brother Grimm's fairy tales"
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You need to watch more Rick and Morty. Oh, the possibilities of infinite universes/dimensions.
 
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DutchJazzer said:
15 3/5 billions of years are those 6 days

Now you can take cosmology, paleontology, archaeology, and look at the history of the world, and see whether or not they match up "day-by-day" with genesis and they DO!
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They do not, lol who are you kidding?
 
LogGrad98 said:
As with all religious texts it depends on the interpretation. Were the "days" in Genesis meant to be literal 24-hour days? Or were they epochs of some unknowable time-frame? Was it 1000 years is a day? Or is that used to simply imply that a day is a much longer time than humans reckon it to be? Much like the use of multiples of 7 or 12 in the bible used to colloquially at that time to imply a "metric-****-ton", as we might say it today.
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I am not too picky about days... could be millions of years for all I care, it is is still nowhere close to scientific evidence and facts.
 
DutchJazzer said:
you are a close minded seems like uneducated person, so i am not responding and replying to you anymore!
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typical response of a loser who can't back up his ridiculous claims with proper arguments.
So please, tell us if you are so educated - how biblical statement that birds were created before land animals matches with fossil records and all we know about bird evolution?
 
MVP said:
typical response of a loser who can't back up his ridiculous claims with proper arguments.
So please, tell us if you are so educated - how biblical statement that birds were created before land animals matches with fossil records and all we know about bird evolution?
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i gave u an argument about why it isn't one or the other but both.

but you did an ad hominem atttack, so then i am done arguing!


you want the poper argument read my old post about big bang and genesis or read the book i told u about!

of course i could go into it again. but i already went into it! and the author of the book is a far better writer in English than me!

so not going into you attack on biblical statement again! you have a nice day
 
DutchJazzer said:
you want the poper argument read my old post about big bang and genesis or read the book i told u about!

of
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I read some as I really do not have time to read all of it. It is obviously a book written for religious folks to incorporate scientific evidence into their beliefs and does very poor job of actually convincing scientist or an atheist of Bible's co-existence with science.

This article actually has very detailed and good critique of Shroeder's book and I can't add anything more to it.

https://www.talkreason.org/articles/schroeder.cfm

From article:
Conclusion: Schroeder's attempt to reconcile the biblical tale about six days of creation with scientific data which assert that the age of the universe is about 15 billion years, failed. It was based on a misapplication of the theory of relativity.

What is the Bible's story? It says that the first man walked on the earth roughly 6,000 years ago.

What is the scientific story? It is rather different.

Archeological data indicate that humanlike creatures made tools of stone as early as about 40,000 years ago. Is any animal known to shape stones into tools?

The color pictures of animals had been drawn on rocks as early as about 27,000 years ago (for example, the image of a horse in Pech Merle, France). What animal is known to engage in art?

As archeological data indicate, as early as 23,000 years ago humanlike creatures used to embellish their looks by means of beads attached to their clothing. Is there any animal known to use artificially made clothing and, moreover, to embellish them in any way?

Archeological data indicate that as early as 18,000 years ago humanlike creatures used needles made of bones to sew clothing. Is there any animal known to sew clothing?

Archeological data indicate that the bow and arrow was already in use about 11,000 years ago. Is there any animal capable of inventing and using sophisticated tools such as the bow and arrow?

Archeological data indicate that as early as about 9,000 years ago humanlike creatures already used pottery. To make the pottery, those humanlike creatures used kilns where the temperature reached about 1000 degrees. Is there any animal capable of constructing kilns and, moreover, of making and utilizing pottery?

At about the same time, some 9,000 years ago, the humanlike creatures built settlements occupying over two hectares each, where buildings were used as living quarters and as storage sheds. About 8,000 years ago, the size of such settlements was sometimes up to 15 hectares. The inhabitants of those settlements used artificial irrigation and grew crops. They used seals, which proves the existence of some form of a writing system and of some form of documentation. Are there any animals known for building villages, using artificial irrigation, growing crops, and using a writing system and a documentation?

Finally, one more thing archeology tells us about is as follows: As early as about 8,000 years ago, that is some 2,000 years before the date, when, according to the Bible, the first man, Adam, appeared, humanlike creatures (as, for example, inhabitants of the Sumerian settlement at Tepe Gawra in Mesopotamia) systematically built, in the centers of their villages, religious shrines and temples. Is there an animal, however intelligent, that is known to have any religious concepts?

What we can say with a reasonable confidence, is that the arguments by Schroeder aimed at proving the compatibility of the biblical and the scientific accounts, fall apart at even a perfunctory glance.
 
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