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12-11-2010, Jazz @ Mavs, 6:30 Utah Time

Yeah, some good coaching moves by Jerry--somewhere between 1/2 and 2 1/2 quarters too late.

Sloan should have known from previous games that Millsap on Dirk doesn't work.

This isn't about odds; there's little correlation between this loss and previous wins.

The game was winnable with better game planning and/or faster adjustments.
So Millsap can't guard Dirk and Sloan should've known that heading into the game. Then what do you suggest? Should the Jazz have benched either Millsap and/or Jefferson and started Elson or Evans in his place - just to guard Dirk? If you do that and sit Millsap while Dirk is in the game - then you're admitting Millsap or Jefferson isn't a legitimate frontline player of the future. When your 2nd, 3rd, and 4th best players don't show up in the first half - that's on them - not the coaching staff.

And this is about odds. Like I said after the win in Portland and the loss to OKC - you don't fall behind by 15+ points and come back and win every time. The margin for error is too small down the stretch.
 
When memo gets back we will have someone to guard dirk. Memo is really going to help us out with his size and 3 point shot.
 
So Millsap can't guard Dirk and Sloan should've known that heading into the game. Then what do you suggest? Should the Jazz have benched either Millsap and/or Jefferson and started Elson or Evans in his place - just to guard Dirk?
Correct. No offense to the Paperboy, but until he can figure out how to defend and score around Dirk, he's still eligible for starting against up to the other 28 or 29 teams in the league. Or just for formality, you start him and then sub him out long before 11 SECONDS LEFT IN THE FIRST QUARTER, when Evans came in for him. I'm sure that the team could've made up for Milly's ONE POINT (on 1-2 FTs, btw--long a criticism of other certain bigs on this team, whether they were available for this game or not) and TWO REBOUNDS that he managed in the first quarter.

If you do that and sit Millsap while Dirk is in the game - then you're admitting Millsap or Jefferson isn't a legitimate frontline player of the future.
By not starting Millsap (or by playing him less), you are merely admitting that Millsap isn't a legitimate frontline player against the Mavericks when Nowitzki and another 7-footer are in the game. Nothing to be too embarrassed about, especially regarding a second-round player who has mostly filled in nicely for the pompous stat-whoring windbag (now playing in the Windy City) that he replaced in the starting lineup. In any case, such lineup insights, my friend, can make a difference between beating a team or not, as the two L's logged this week against Carlisle's crew clearly demonstrate.

When your 2nd, 3rd, and 4th best players don't show up in the first half - that's on them - not the coaching staff.
Millsap's effort might have not been 100%, but he did "show up". He just has physical (and maybe some experience) limitations that prevent him from being effective against Nowitzki--just like Boozer did against the Twin Towers of Tinseltown in the playoffs. You're writing as if we haven't seen this scenario before. Heck--we saw it just three days prior, so the strengths and weaknesses of the Jazz vs. the Mavs should've been crystal clear, and there wasn't much variability in comparison; the players were pretty much the same. Playing less of Millsap wasn't the only glaring mistake that Sloan made in managing this game, but it was a pretty major one.

By the way, I'm not denying that the effort and focus of the players wasn't optimal. It just seems far less interesting (with far less information available) to analyze how to fix that. Besides, part of the job of a coaching staff is to either fix it or to find another combination that works. Given that first-quarter slump this has happened game after game, it shouldn't have been a surprise, ESPECIALLY since Utah had just played them three days prior. Off the top of my head, the adjustments were to play more of Elson, more of Price, more of Evans, more of Miles and less of Millsap (and maybe AK). Sloan probably did some or maybe even all of these things, but not enough--and not early enough. Furthermore, by the 6:44 mark in Q1, Sloan had expended two time outs and had solved the Hayward problem but didn't solve the Millsap problem, even though Dork had already logged 8 points and 2 assists. Dork and Careen (Caron) just kept on producing until they sat down when the lead was 29-4. That is what you call abysmal game management on the part of the Jazz coaching staff.

The information that was readialy available (before the game had even started) is what previous games against the Mavs (and other teams with a tall 4/5 tandems; the Fakers come to mind) have done to a Jazz lineup with an undersized PF, an undersized center, or both. And although Fes was out, Elson was available long before the 1:13 mark, when the Mavs had careened to a 25-point lead that the Jazz had managed to whittle down to 17 points at that point. By then, the hemorrhage was too much to overcome, just as the final score suggests.

And this is about odds. Like I said after the win in Portland and the loss to OKC - you don't fall behind by 15+ points and come back and win every time. The margin for error is too small down the stretch.
Maybe you don't have a background in statistics, but there is very little correlation between the two games. I'm only pressing this point because you are. If a team is doing everything else right, then luck ("odds") come into play. But if poor game planning, poor preparation by the players, and poor in-game management by the coaching staff (only a portion of which was explained above) is present, then odds have very little to do with it.
 
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So Millsap can't guard Dirk and Sloan should've known that heading into the game. Then what do you suggest? Should the Jazz have benched either Millsap and/or Jefferson and started Elson or Evans in his place - just to guard Dirk? If you do that and sit Millsap while Dirk is in the game - then you're admitting Millsap or Jefferson isn't a legitimate frontline player of the future. When your 2nd, 3rd, and 4th best players don't show up in the first half - that's on them - not the coaching staff.

And this is about odds. Like I said after the win in Portland and the loss to OKC - you don't fall behind by 15+ points and come back and win every time. The margin for error is too small down the stretch.

No, Elson is too slow and was just hacking him. Evans would have been our best chance his long arms would be difficult to shoot over and has the foot speed to stay in front. Dirk could back him down, but its a lot easier to double down low than at the three point line. Sloan needs to play Evans more, he is a unique player and come playoff time will be needed.
 
No, Elson is too slow and was just hacking him. Evans would have been our best chance his long arms would be difficult to shoot over and has the foot speed to stay in front. Dirk could back him down, but its a lot easier to double down low than at the three point line. Sloan needs to play Evans more, he is a unique player and come playoff time will be needed.

This This and more This!

The development of Evans is going to be key to our success.
 
You armchair coaches ****ing suck. You would have your team run in to the ground in no time. Yay message boards!
 
Sadly us arm chair guys make a lot of sense. And you wouldn't be here if you didn't think so now would you?

Not necessarily. I'm here because I love the Jazz and I want to discuss the Jazz with other Jazz fans, and because there really aren't any other sites out there for this. Here, we seem to have nothing but self-loathing fans who think they know how to run a team, make personell decisions, and coach better than our staff - all notions that I find highly, HIGHLY laughable even if for some they seem to "make sense". Some guys on this site are like the loony doomsday preacher with their crackpot ideas; most people know they are full of ****, but they will have their small legion of followers and preach like they know what they are talking about.
 
Maybe you don't have a background in statistics, but there is very little correlation between the two games. I'm only pressing this point because you are. If a team is doing everything else right, then luck ("odds") come into play. But if poor game planning, poor preparation by the players, and poor in-game management by the coaching staff (only a portion of which was explained above) is present, then odds have very little to do with it.
Actually I do have a background in stats, but that's beside the point.

I'm not sure what you're referencing by "the two games." I'm not comparing last night's game to any other specific game - but there absolutely is a correlation to last night's game and a large sample-size of our comebacks this year.

For the season we're only averaging 23.6 and 23.4 points in the 1st and 2nd qtrs respectively and 26.3 and 26.6 points in the 3rd&4th qtrs respectively. Defensively we give up 25.9, 23.3, 24.2, 23.0 through the 1st-4th qtrs. And last night's our scoring by qtr went 19-23-28-27 and we held Dallas to 22 in the 4th qtr - which is exceptionally good against Dallas but in terms of winning slightly too high - 2 Terry jumpers and some Dirk FT's being the difference. You're reference to "Poor substitution and coaching decisions" are opinion (your opinion) only - and not compareable on a game-by-game basis.

My point is consistently falling behind by 15 points and then attempting to rally late - will not work 100% of the time such as on the East Coast trip. The margin for error down the stretch of games is too small. Sometimes Arroyo and Wade will miss some FT's down the stretch and other times Dirk will make 'em all. You're not always going to have a final 40-seconds like you did in Charlotte of a score, a defensive stop and another score. Just like you live by the 3 - you die by the 3, if you live by 15-point comebacks you'll die by them eventually.
 
I agree with most of what IGS said. I dont agree with pulling Millsap from the starting lineup depending on who we're playing. That would completely arrest the development of a player. That said, I think we're far enough into the season to note that habit of slow starts. Sloan always talks about making the hard decisions and what not...well, he need to make one right now.
 
I agree with most of what IGS said. I dont agree with pulling Millsap from the starting lineup depending on who we're playing. That would completely arrest the development of a player. That said, I think we're far enough into the season to note that habit of slow starts. Sloan always talks about making the hard decisions and what not...well, he need to make one right now.
I appreciate the substantial agreement. However, I differ with the notion that pulling Millsap would arrest his development; in the past, Millsap has benefitted from getting unwarranted time glaring mismatches already (starting in years previous), so he's gotten more than his fair share of PT. It's not like I'm proposing that he be DNP'd for games on end like other developing players have been. Sloan has had no problem benching players indiscriminatly (and not just backups; although his play has been off and on lately AK comes to mind among those who have regularly been among the first 7 in the rotation who were benched for no apparent reason). But as I was careful to point out, it's not as important not to start a damaging matchup as to make adjustments quickly. Then again, Dallas vaulted to a near-double digit lead in the first 3 or 4 minutes anyway, so maybe I take that back. No reason to indulge a player with a starting role if he is going to be an instant liability.

Also, I'm only proposing that his minutes be reduced (probably to 25 MPG, give or take a few) in games where the matchups don't work, which is more the exception than the rule. That's a big part of my mantra for using any player, in any game: plan ahead to anticipate the matchups that work, make prompt adjustments mid-game if the matches aren't working, and stick with what works. Sloan did one of those things during the Mavs game, at most; Carlisle clearly did at least two. That first-quarter barrage wasn't luck ("odds"); the Mavericks had their players ready, and the players had themselves ready. Utah's coaches didn't, Utah's players weren't ready, and it took nearly a quarter (following two seemingly fruitless time outs) to adjust.

It isn't rocket science to anticipate (not just previously but in the future) that Deron, Price, maybe Watson, Miles, Evans, maybe AK, and the backup bigs should get extra minutes against the Mavs--and that Millsap and maybe even Jefferson (depending on his performance) should get fewer. By "more" I mean an extra 5 or 10 minutes (at least 10 minutes, up to 35 or so); by "fewer" I mean 5 or 10 minutes below 30 or 35.
 
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Watching the Jazz double Nowitzki on an iso move towards the basket was tragicomic -- and I don't blame Utah, this is simply the nature of the hand-check clearout era.
 
This This and more This!

The development of Evans is going to be key to our success.

With Memo coming back, if this is the case we are in big trouble! Doubt Evans will see the floor except in garbage time when we are 100% healthy. A matter of fact he might be sent down to the D-League at that point.
 
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