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12-year-old with air gun dies in Cleveland police shooting

OMG OBAMA SHOULD TAKE YOUR GUNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!


(CNN) -- A Cleveland police officer responding to a call about a person with a gun fatally wounded a 12-year-old boy brandishing what turned out to be an air gun that looked very much like a real firearm, police said early Sunday.

The shooting Saturday afternoon came as the nation nervously awaited a grand jury decision on whether to charge the police officer who killed African-American teenager Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, in August.

The attorney for the family of the Cleveland youngster, who also was black, downplayed any possible racial connotations to the shooting.

"This is not a black and white issue. This is a right and wrong issue," attorney Tim Kucharski said.

Police were summoned to the scene outside a recreation center by a 911 caller who said someone -- possibly a juvenile -- was pointing a gun at people.

"There's a guy in there with a pistol, you know, it's probably fake, but he's like pointing it at everybody," the caller said, according to audio provided by CNN affiliate WEWS.

"He's sitting on a swing right now, but he's pulling it in and out of his pants and pointing it at people," the caller said. "He's probably a juvenile, you know?"

When the two officers arrived, the boy did not point the weapon at them or otherwise threaten them, Deputy Chief Ed Tomba of the Cleveland Division of Police told reporters early Sunday.

But he did reach for the weapon, Tomba said.

"The officers ordered him to stop and to show his hands and he went into his waistband and pulled out the weapon," he said.

Tomba showed reporters the weapon -- a large, black BB- or pellet-type replica gun resembling a semiautomatic pistol. An orange tip indicating the gun was an air gun had been removed, police said.

It wasn't clear if officers had been told the weapon was not a firearm, Officer Ali Pillow told CNN on Sunday.

Both officers have been placed on leave, police said.

The 12-year-old's name has not been released by police. He died early Sunday at MetroHealth Medical Center following surgery, according to the hospital and the family's attorney.

People who had gathered around the early-morning media scrum with Tomba hurled angry questions at him, accusing police of unnecessary violence.

"It's a toy gun and a 12-year-old," a woman in the crowd yelled as reporters tried to ask questions, according to video provided by WEWS.

While saying a thorough and open investigation was under way, Tomba defended the officers' actions in what he called a "very, very tragic situation."

"They were doing their job," he said.

Police shootings of African-Americans, particularly young men, have been under rising scrutiny in recent months following the shooting of Brown by a white officer following a brief confrontation in Ferguson.

A grand jury is expected to soon make a decision whether Officer Darren Wilson should face criminal charges in that incident, which resulted in widespread protests over police violence against African-Americans.
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lets not blame the (air)gun.

the 12 year old and his parents should be blamed.
 
The key to this entire thing is that the Police have already released the 9-1-1 call where it's CLEARLY stated it's a boy and the gun is 'probably fake', as well as the fact THE POLICE said officers did NOT feel threatened.

They're able to apprehend that psycho who shot up the movie theater in Colorado without physically harming him after he killed all those people, but they can't keep a 12 year old kid who's shot no one alive... SMDH

RIP Tamir Rice
 
Gameface said:
But maybe they need to have more justification then a person not following their commands as fast as they would have liked.
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.
 
HighlandHomie said:
It's unreal these dumb american pigs cant just use rubber bullets. Every other country can handle a 12-year old kid playing with a toy gun no matter how real it looks without the kid ending up dead, but we can't. Welcome to NRA America filled with dumb conservatives with a warped sense of freedom who embrace wielding a gun and aren't afraid to kill. What a disgrace.
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It does help when you live in a country where on average less people are killed by guns each year than US police officers.

There has been 1 police officer killed by a gun in the state I am in, in the last 15 years.
I am 37 years old, I have never seen a gun or known anyone who owned a gun in my life.

I actually asked a few police officers here if they would do their job if they lived in America. The response was either laughter or no.
 
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HighlandHomie said:
The key to this entire thing is that the Police have already released the 9-1-1 call where it's CLEARLY stated it's a boy and the gun is 'probably fake', as well as the fact THE POLICE said officers did NOT feel threatened.

They're able to apprehend that psycho who shot up the movie theater in Colorado without physically harming him after he killed all those people, but they can't keep a 12 year old kid who's shot no one alive... SMDH
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and the guy in the Arizona shopping mall shooting that injured Gabby Giffords

it is rather paradoxical



I know many of you favor open carry or concealed carry for all citizens, but I do think that one repercussion of that is that police will assume everyone is armed and behave accordingly.

a couple of caveats to this specific story:

a 12 year old does not necessarily look like a child anymore - the caller in fact, referred to him as "a guy" with a gun, not a child or a boy with a gun

the caller said the gun "probably" was fake; it's not clear whether that opinion was relayed to the responding officers. Plus, as someone myself who is not part of gun culture and who lives in a community that has historically favored strong gun restrictions, if I saw a child with a gun, I would assume it was a toy.

Though I don't understand why, if the caller truly thought it was fake, they would call 911! That indicates that some level of threat must have been felt.
 
moevillini said:
Though I don't understand why, if the caller truly thought it was fake, they would call 911! That indicates that some level of threat must have been felt.
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If I saw a kid waving a gun around, even if I felt 80% sure it was a toy gun I'd very possibly call 911 to cover the 20% chance that it wasn't.
 
colton said:
This.
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Right, cause no officer ever reached for his tazer and pulled his gun. I don't think the officer should have shot the boy, but at some point we as American's need to have some logic and not try to incense the police officer or provoke them. Almost every shooting could have been avoided if the person being shot would have set the gun down (even a 12 year old) and put their hands up. No one dies.
 
tedbundy said:
but at some point we as American's need to have some logic and not try to incense the police officer or provoke them. Almost every shooting could have been avoided if the person being shot would have set the gun down (even a 12 year old) and put their hands up. No one dies.
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This is the root of it all. Regardless of your opinion of cops or if you think they are justified or not, do what they say and stay safe. Fighting, arguing, or ignoring them leads to bad outcomes.
 
tedbundy said:
Right, cause no officer ever reached for his tazer and pulled his gun. I don't think the officer should have shot the boy, but at some point we as American's need to have some logic and not try to incense the police officer or provoke them. Almost every shooting could have been avoided if the person being shot would have set the gun down (even a 12 year old) and put their hands up. No one dies.
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What's more reasonable... assuming that a police officer should be trained in and able to use nonlethal force, or that 12 year old kids will always behave logically?
 
colton said:
What's more reasonable... assuming that a police officer should be trained in and able to use nonlethal force, or that 12 year old kids will always behave logically?
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12 years olds don't act with logic all the time. However, as a parent i think it's my responsibility to teach my children that when a police officer is asking me to do something I probably need to act accordingly. We need to take responsiblity. Would I be angry the officer shot my child... YES. Would I also be angry that my child refused to listen to an officer of the law. YES. I was making a more broad stroke with my statement than this one shooting. There have been a lot of police involved shootings lately.
 
Sidebottom2beams said:
It does help when you live in a country where on average less people are killed by guns each year than US police officers.

There has been 1 police officer killed by a gun in the state I am in, in the last 15 years.
I am 37 years old, I have never seen a gun or known anyone who owned a gun in my life.

I actually asked a few police officers here if they would do their job if they lived in America. The response was either laughter or no.
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Americans will tell you that if guns were illegal then all the criminals would have them and everyone would be in danger.

Your country sounds better than mine based off your post..... at least in regards to gun use/safety
 
colton said:
What's more reasonable... assuming that a police officer should be trained in and able to use nonlethal force, or that 12 year old kids will always behave logically?
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This, and it seems rather obvious to me. We can't even get all adults to behave responsibly, but sure, it's completely reasonable to expect a kid with a toy gun to understand that the police could show up and blow you away at an moment, just to be on the safe side. You know what? Give up your badge and GTFO out of the police department if your mindset is to error on the side of your own life, even when dealing with a child. Sorry, but when you choose to be a cop, you know that your life may have to be put on the line. The police have a tough job, without a doubt, but as far as I'm concerned, part of that job is using deadly force as a last resort, rather than a shoot first, ask questions later policy.
 
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tedbundy said:
12 years olds don't act with logic all the time. However, as a parent i think it's my responsibility to teach my children that when a police officer is asking me to do something I probably need to act accordingly. We need to take responsiblity. Would I be angry the officer shot my child... YES. Would I also be angry that my child refused to listen to an officer of the law. YES. I was making a more broad stroke with my statement than this one shooting. There have been a lot of police involved shootings lately.
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Yes, all shootings are the same, so we should just lump them in together. Makes total sense.
 
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