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14th Tank Platoon

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infection said:
We would have gotten the GSW pick too had we lost that game against them. Who knows if we would have been able to package and move up, but this is all neither here nor there.
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Would we have had our own pick though? We would have stilled owed Minnesota a pick. I'm just not sure where the protection was for that year. If I remember correctly, it was top 14 protected 2012 (when we gave it up) and top 12 protected for 2013. Our pick was 14th. We would have lost it and not been able to trade it for Burke. We wouldn't have gotten Burke.

Making the playoffs in 2011 (when everyone wanted us to tank for Kendall Marshall) got us Trey Burke. LOL.
 
Sneakers said:
Would we have had our own pick though? We would have stilled owed Minnesota a pick. I'm just not sure where the protection was for that year. If I remember correctly, it was top 14 protected 2012 (when we gave it up) and top 12 protected for 2013. Our pick was 14th. We would have lost it and not been able to trade it for Burke. We wouldn't have gotten Burke.

Making the playoffs in 2011 (when everyone wanted us to tank for Kendall Marshall) got us Trey Burke. LOL.
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We would have gotten our pick. In any case, I agree that I like Burke. The premise of this whole thing is that it will be like a repeat of that year where they screw us over and we screw us over. Everything else is pretty irrelevant.
 
infection said:
We would have gotten our pick. In any case, I agree that I like Burke. The premise of this whole thing is that it will be like a repeat of that year where they screw us over and we screw us over. Everything else is pretty irrelevant.
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But we didn't screw us over, you see?

If we had missed playoffs and gotten the pick that year, we would have still owed Minnesota a top 12 protected pick the next year (2013 draft). Our pick was 14th in 2013 - would have gone to Minnesota. We only got Burke because we had the 14th pick (which Minny liked for Shabazz) *on top* of the GS pick.

That's just the short term thinking. There was garbage in that range in the 2012 draft. I just don't think people see this, they just think "omg we gave up our draft pick", not knowing we owed a draft pick... whose protections got weaker each year we didn't give it up. It was the best to give it up at the lowest possible point it could have gone.
 
Ok, so this year we play ourselves out of a good pick and GS makes the playoffs. Where's the silver lining?

Also, we would have had the 14th pick plus the 8th pick. Whether or not you could have packaged and moved up is all speculative and, largely, now irrelevant. I get what you're saying, but I think you're not quite understanding what I'm saying.
 
infection said:
Ok, so this year we play ourselves out of a good pick and GS makes the playoffs. Where's the silver lining?

Also, we would have had the 14th pick plus the 8th pick. Whether or not you could have packaged and moved up is all speculative and, largely, now irrelevant. I get what you're saying, but I think you're not quite understanding what I'm saying.
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Yeah I just think the "shot ourselves in the foot" sentiment from the 2011 year is overblown and inaccurate. Golden State tanked.. we couldn't have done anything about that. Except throw the game against them? We lost on a coin flip. No one was trading that draft, if you remember. No one was biting.
 
Terrible night for the tank. Jazz win, GS wins, three teams just ahead of the Jazz lost.

There are now 5 teams with 8 wins, the Jazz are only 2nd to last because they have more losses.

GS is in 9th place, but only by percentage points, they have more wins than 8th place Nuggets.
 
I agree that hind sight being 20/20 we lived out to get Burke. But nobody knew that there would be a pg of Burkes quality in the draft the year before, and nobody guessed he would have dropped to 9 and the Jazz would be ankle to move up and get him. Likewise, this could have just as easily worked out that Lillard dropped to the Jazz at 8 that year.

Also, things could work out this year that we trade gs pick and ours to move up to 3-5 pick and get a stud, or we could stand pat and get a steal in the 8-10 range, or even better, get a 1-3 pick despite being in the 8-10 range.
 
So frustrated right now. For the last 15 games we are playing 500 ball. That puts us on track to win ~34 games. After the fifth pick chances getting lucky with the ping pongs is <10%. Feels like we are headed right back where we came from. Argh stuck in the middle!
 
Furthering the misery, Franchise players from 1980-2006 in picks 6-14:
Dirk, TMac, Reggie Miller, KJ, Karl Malone, Kobe, Clyde Drexler, Chris Mullin, Tim Hardaway.
Out of 234 picks you have to be lucky enough to get one of those 9 guys. It happens once every 3 years.

I can believe that the current core is good enough to get to the playoffs. I also believe that they are a major piece away from competing. For me, this is a franchise altering moment in time.

Trey, please stub your toe and come back next year. DL, DOOOOO SOMETHING!!!!!!!!
 
I believe that this season is really our only true chance at becoming a contender. Very disappointing to think that we could come out of this season with a pick in the later lottery, the Warriors in the playoffs and Ty getting extended for courageously leading us out of a bottom 3 record.

This disappointment is going to rival the finals upsets.
 
More than 1/3 of the season is in the books, and the Jazz are still second from the bottom. The other teams serious about tanking (so far) only include the Bucks, Sixers, and maybe Orlando. Coming in 2nd-to-last instead of last means that we lose 5 points in our chance the the first pick, and stand the risk of falling to 5th. However, we are still more likely in the top 4 range.

L O effin L at all these sub-.500 teams making the playoffs in the East. Teams with 1 or 2 more wins than the Jazz are in the playoff hunt. I think this is going to keep teams fighting for the playoffs rather than pulling the red handle.

We're in good shape. We now need to see how we can come in last or next to last over the next 40 games. It seems to me, the best thing we can do is keep TB3's minutes down in the low 20s, have Hayward handle more, play less Favors and more Biedrins, etc. In other words, allocate minutes differently. The Jazz are a different and much more balanced team when Trey is on the floor.
 
Sneakers said:
But we didn't screw us over, you see?

If we had missed playoffs and gotten the pick that year, we would have still owed Minnesota a top 12 protected pick the next year (2013 draft). Our pick was 14th in 2013 - would have gone to Minnesota. We only got Burke because we had the 14th pick (which Minny liked for Shabazz) *on top* of the GS pick.

That's just the short term thinking. There was garbage in that range in the 2012 draft. I just don't think people see this, they just think "omg we gave up our draft pick", not knowing we owed a draft pick... whose protections got weaker each year we didn't give it up. It was the best to give it up at the lowest possible point it could have gone.
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With gs pick and our own.... both in lottery, we might have got lillard
 
With the tank in possible jeproday, other teams tanking strong and Jazzfanz conflicted, I thought it was time for a few catchy phrases.

No more rigging for wiggins, party for Jabari or scandal for randle.

Now it is:

Forget a franchise player instead draft Embiid.

#4 is not soon for Exum

Give our vets a start for Marcus Smart.

Win more than 9 for Wiley-Stein

30 wins doesn't scare us for Harris.

Boy, that makes me feel better.
 
vegas said:
Furthering the misery, Franchise players from 1980-2006 in picks 6-14:
Dirk, TMac, Reggie Miller, KJ, Karl Malone, Kobe, Clyde Drexler, Chris Mullin, Tim Hardaway.
Out of 234 picks you have to be lucky enough to get one of those 9 guys. It happens once every 3 years.

I can believe that the current core is good enough to get to the playoffs. I also believe that they are a major piece away from competing. For me, this is a franchise altering moment in time.

Trey, please stub your toe and come back next year. DL, DOOOOO SOMETHING!!!!!!!!
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Back in the day you went to college for 3 or 4 years entering the league at age 21-23. This gives you a far more accurate estimate to predict success at the next level. Then from 2000 or sth the highschool to the pros started which ended in 2006. So better pencil out the franchise/potential franchise players selected since 2007 below the 5th pick.
2007: Marc Gasol(48th)
2008: Brook Lopez(10th), Roy Hibbert(17th)
2009: Steph Curry(9th)
2010: Gordon Hayward(Nah I'm just kidding), Paul George(10th)
2012: Damian Lillard(6th), Andre Drummond(9th)
2013: Trey Burke(OK I'm trying to fool you again), MCW(11th), Shabazz Muhammad(teh lulz), Giannis Adetokunbo(hurr durr), Dennis Schröder(Okay forget the 2013 section), Rudy Gobert(Nah I'm really serious about that one)

So it's not like you can't find a diamond in the rough with all the one and done guys. I think it's way more important to have a good culture, a good team architect who putts fitting pieces together(like a master puzzler), a good coach who teaches good defense and then a little bit of luck can't hurt as well. But per se just having the best player in the world doesn't help you. It takes guys willing to forfeit salary and make up for it with endorsements to give a team the chance to operate under the salary cap efficiently, then you need some luck in addition with injuries, chemistry, recruiting hungry/desperate veterans. It's so complex. But having the best player obviously won't hurt.
 
mellow said:
With the tank in possible jeproday, other teams tanking strong and Jazzfanz conflicted, I thought it was time for a few catchy phrases.

No more rigging for wiggins, party for Jabari or scandal for randle.

Now it is:

Forget a franchise player instead draft Embiid.

#4 is not soon for Exum

Give our vets a start for Marcus Smart.

Win more than 9 for Wiley-Stein

30 wins doesn't scare us for Harris.

Boy, that makes me feel better.
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You haven't been staying up to date on Embiid apparently. He's basically a lock to go top 3 and is in the discussion for #1 with Wiggins and Parker.
 
spycam1 said:
You haven't been staying up to date on Embiid apparently. He's basically a lock to go top 3 and is in the discussion for #1 with Wiggins and Parker.
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Good. Let's hope there are more of those that move up, too. And hopefully more Anthony Bennets and Cleveland Cavaliers to help pad our worsening draft position. Surely a few guys will impress with a good combine. Some GM will salivate over someone's measurements or vertical and they can have another 10 year reminder of why their franchise is where it's at.
 
spycam1 said:
You haven't been staying up to date on Embiid apparently. He's basically a lock to go top 3 and is in the discussion for #1 with Wiggins and Parker.
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it's too early. if randle goes crazy in march then what? taking young UK to the finals? and if wiggins struggle badly in march then what?


nobody is a lock.

only lock is parker being top 3.
 
Fabtrey said:
it's too early. if randle goes crazy in march then what? taking young UK to the finals? and if wiggins struggle badly in march then what?


nobody is a lock.

only lock is parker being top 3.
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You don't think Wiggins is a lock for top 3???

Finish your multiplication tables sonny-boy
 
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