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1500 Missing Children

Red said:
There is no law, mandating that children must be separated from their parents at the border. Trump is simply lying through his teeth because he gets away with bald face lies like no other chief executive in our history. He is lying for the benifit of his cult of personality.

Well, although, like so many other Americans, this situation breaks my heart, I can't be surprised that Trump is not only violating human rights, but lying through his teeth day after day in blaming Democrats, while, at the very same time calling the policy of separating children leverage to use against Democrats. And how can anybody be surprised by the cruelty of it all? This is exactly what I expected from the man. This is what our President is doing. Warning, this is a very difficult read:

http://www.thisisinsider.com/psychological-effects-of-separating-immigrant-kids-and-parents-2018-6

And this is why. This is the extent to which he will go to get his wall. Traumatize kids for life in persuit of his political goals, to satisfy the whims of his cult of personality:

http://www.dailyherald.com/news/201...of-separating-immigrant-children-from-parents

You know, I've seen frequent references to people who are somehow nothing but members of a "left wing hate Trump" movement. Isn't love the opposite of hate? Now, I ask you, should I really be expected to love this man? Cruelty is his defining trait, it seems to me. Why would I want the leader of my country to be the face of cruelty in America? And we should just shut up, accept the man and just shut up already? I feel sorry for this man. He is the nadir of the office of the Presidency in the history of the USA. In Donald Trump, the office has reached rock bottom. And this policy, which is his policy, and that of Jeff Sessions, reveals his true nature better then any other of his words and actions since he took office. He hurts children for political gain. Says it all I think. This is our so-called leader. He hurts children for political gain. I wish his apologists would just take the blinders off, but I guess I can't expect cult members to recognize the true nature of their leader.
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This is an easy issue to campaign on. If trump thinks that this won’t weigh heavily on the midterms, then he’s dumber than we all think. This is so obviously wrong. Even Laura Bush has come out against it. I don’t thinkna former First Lady has ever spoken out against current presidential policy.

If I’m running in this midterm this has got to be One of your pillars of the campaign. Health care and this imprisoning children thing. Awful. Completely and utterly deplorable. Nazi-like. At least 70 percent of this country doesn’t want fascism.
 
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Former First Lady Laura Bush

“I live in a border state. I appreciate the need to enforce and protect our international boundaries, but this zero-tolerance policy is cruel. It is immoral. And it breaks my heart," Bush writes.

"Our government should not be in the business of warehousing children in converted box stores or making plans to place them in tent cities in the desert outside of El Paso”

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/17/politics/laura-bush-oped-detention-separation/index.html
 
babe said:
Political organizers who exploit real human problems for political gain would be my idea of "evil", if that mattered to anyone.
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Well, I like pointing out that evil is often banal, which is what makes it hard to recognize at times, until it is too late. I can think of foreign political leaders from the 20th century, who were essentially quite banal, yet who were to lead their people into devastating wars, while committing unspeakable crimes against humanity. At any rate, per your observation above regarding your own idea of what is "evil", that is exactly what Trump is doing, and he has admitted it as such, even as he has repeatedly falsely claimed there is a law mandating the separation of children. He is exploiting "real human problems for political gain". I resisted his presidential campaign because I felt this was his true nature. I can't apologize for that. I feel I just had eyes to see at the time, it alarmed me no end, and I voiced that alarm.
 
The Thriller said:
This is an easy issue to campaign on. If trump thinks that this won’t weigh heavily on the midterms, then he’s dumber than we all think. This is so obviously wrong. Even Laura Bush has come out against it. I don’t thinkna former First Lady has ever spoken out against current presidential policy.

If I’m running in this midterm this has got to be One of your pillars of the campaign. Health care and this imprisoning children thing. Awful. Completely and utterly deplorable. Nazi-like. At least 70 percent of this country doesn’t want fascism.
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Steve Miller, who was close to former administration official Steve Bannon, and a hard liner on immigration reform, is the real architect of the separation policy.

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-aide-...-behind-border-child-separation-policy-980409

"Donald Trump aide Stephen Miller was the driving force behind a controversial new policy enforcing the separation of undocumented immigrants from their children at the U.S. border, reported The New York Times.

The president has said he dislikes the policy, and has attempted to lay the blame at the door of the Democrats, but in an interview with the Times, White House adviser Miller defended the policy, describing it as a “simple decision.”
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Somehow, the administration's chief of Homeland Security denies there is even a separation policy!

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...s-policy-separates-families-border/709378002/

But, c'mon, how stupid does this administration believe it's citizens are?:

http://www.thisisinsider.com/trump-administration-policy-separating-children-border-cbp-dhs-2018-6

President Donald Trump
had previously tried to blame the policy on Democrats, but over the weekend his secretary of homeland security, Kirstjen Nielsen, flat-out denied that such a policy existed.

"We do not have a policy of separating families at the border. Period," Nielsen tweeted.

But the Department of Homeland Security does separate children from their parents at the border, and it just put out a press release about it on Friday, explaining its new "zero tolerance" policy for border crossers.

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Yeah, this whole thing, demonstrating the cruelty of this administration, may not be the brightest political move when all is said and done. Voters need to remember who did all the lying here, who devised and supported this idea, and whether they truly approve of this "leadership".
 
Red said:
Steve Miller, who was close to former administration official Steve Bannon, and a hard liner on immigration reform, is the real architect of the separation policy.

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-aide-...-behind-border-child-separation-policy-980409

"Donald Trump aide Stephen Miller was the driving force behind a controversial new policy enforcing the separation of undocumented immigrants from their children at the U.S. border, reported The New York Times.

The president has said he dislikes the policy, and has attempted to lay the blame at the door of the Democrats, but in an interview with the Times, White House adviser Miller defended the policy, describing it as a “simple decision.”
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Somehow, the administration's chief of Homeland Security denies there is even a separation policy!

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...s-policy-separates-families-border/709378002/

But, c'mon, how stupid does this administration believe it's citizens are?:

http://www.thisisinsider.com/trump-administration-policy-separating-children-border-cbp-dhs-2018-6

President Donald Trump
had previously tried to blame the policy on Democrats, but over the weekend his secretary of homeland security, Kirstjen Nielsen, flat-out denied that such a policy existed.

"We do not have a policy of separating families at the border. Period," Nielsen tweeted.

But the Department of Homeland Security does separate children from their parents at the border, and it just put out a press release about it on Friday, explaining its new "zero tolerance" policy for border crossers.

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Yeah, this whole thing, demonstrating the cruelty of this administration, may not be the brightest political move when all is said and done. Voters need to remember who did all the lying here, who devised and supported this idea, and whether they truly approve of this "leadership".
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The Trump administration's myriad explanations for what's going with this policy is truly bizarre. I don't know whether it's incompetence or if this is an actual strategy of theirs to take half a dozen contradictory positions so the goal posts are always changing.
 


Here's a reminder that this is a policy change enacted by this administration with the express purpose of deterring those who would wish to gain asylum in the US.
 


Monstrous. About a minute in a Border Patrol agent can heard joking “Well, we have an orchestra here, what’s missing is a conductor.”
 
It’s all fake news, right?

It’s all Obama’s fault, right?

It’s not a law, right?

Actually, it is a law but it’s a just law and we need to enforce all laws regardless of ethics cuz the Bible, right?

Kids living in cages without their parents isn’t that bad, right?

The real people who are breaking up these families are the parents, for thinking that America would grant them asylum and treating them as human beings, right?

But but but, the economy! Democrats! Hillary! Uranium One! BOARDER WALL! The FBI! WITCH HUNT!!!
 
cant wait until midterms. Democrats need to beat the **** out of the gop over this issue. Trump might have finally given us an emotional issue to collapse his somewhat decent approval rating and break GOP congressional support. Time to sweep Trump and his wretched party into the dustbin of history!

Washington (CNN)Just five months before the midterm elections, Republicans are scrambling to distance themselves from the Trump administration's widely panned "zero tolerance" immigration policy that has resulted in the separation of children from their families at the southern border.
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https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/18/poli...ns-2018-midterms-republicans-trump/index.html
 
Red said:
Well, I like pointing out that evil is often banal, which is what makes it hard to recognize at times, until it is too late. I can think of foreign political leaders from the 20th century, who were essentially quite banal, yet who were to lead their people into devastating wars, while committing unspeakable crimes against humanity. At any rate, per your observation above regarding your own idea of what is "evil", that is exactly what Trump is doing, and he has admitted it as such, even as he has repeatedly falsely claimed there is a law mandating the separation of children. He is exploiting "real human problems for political gain". I resisted his presidential campaign because I felt this was his true nature. I can't apologize for that. I feel I just had eyes to see at the time, it alarmed me no end, and I voiced that alarm.
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I think Trump is not especially intellectual enough to reflect on all the implications of stuff. He sees a problem, he "fixes" it. He might be like the guy with a hammer who thinks everything looks like a nail.

Our immigration law which we have been operating on goes back many years. The original provision for separating children from alleged parents or unconfirmed parents was intended to allow for evaluation of whether the relationship is real. We had been holding parents suspected some "crime", or coming across with coyote guides illegally, together with their children for as long as 120 days. Then a federal judge ruled that that was too long to keep the children in those places, and ordered the children released at 20 days to regular care centers, relatives, or foster families. I think we can do DNA swabs and determine the relationship within a few days or one week tops. I think we need to stop the illegal traffickers because that is where the killing fields and human trafficking are. We have to bust up the gang business. That is the one absolute thing that will create better safety. We need to expand "legal" processing centers near the places these people are coming from.

I think Trump and Sessions just wanted to send smoke signals over the hills south of the border to cut the influx rate. As I understand it, all the fake media aside, children coming across legally with their parents, presenting themselves at the official border crossings and presenting credentials or asking for asylum, have not been separated from their parents.

But hey, this is a great political bonfire. And I bet Trump will turn it into a plus somehow for his team. Trump was willing to expand DACA beyond, double or triple Obama's numbers. And I believe he will now get some kind of deal pushed through Congress that will look pretty good for him. And leave the pure political hyperbolists looking kinda bad.
 
babe said:
I think we can do DNA swabs and determine the relationship within a few days or one week tops.
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I agree completely.

babe said:
I think Trump and Sessions just wanted to send smoke signals over the hills south of the border to cut the influx rate. As I understand it, all the fake media aside, children coming across legally with their parents, presenting themselves at the official border crossings and presenting credentials or asking for asylum, have not been separated from their parents.
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Not all of them or even most of them, but a decent percentages of asylum seekers do get separated.
 
1) This is, a law. It is a bad law, it should be changed ASAP, but it is a law.

2) This, and similar stories, has been going on since 2014. In fact, a federal judge found that the Obama Administration was violating the a previous law (Flores) in regards to treatment of immigrant children. The judge stated the conditions were “widespread and deplorable”, and neither safe nor sanitary. The only difference between now and then, is that back then the women and children were allowed to be kept together. But they were kept in similar conditions, for the purpose of deterring illegal immigration.

3) Back in 2014-2015 when this was discovered, it was hardly covered, and essentially nobody compared it to the Japanese internment camps, or Nazi Germans. The difference in media coverage between now and then, is astounding. It almost certainly indicates a bias one way or the other.

4) What they did then, what they’re doing now, is wrong. Flat. Out. Wrong. Can’t justify it, can’t defend it...at least I can’t.

5) Blaming one party or the other for this, when both parties are culprits, isn’t helping anything. Somebody somewhere needs to take responsibility and fix it. Enact a quick fix solution, and then work on a better plan going forward, but let’s try to work together and fix it. Working together being the key part that nobody seems to want to do.

6) Politics suck, and more and more, it seems like people themselves just suck. The difference between people like Thriller and people like Trump are negligible, and there are far too many like them. It’s downright depressing.
 
JustTheTip said:
1) This is, a law. It is a bad law, it should be changed ASAP, but it is a law.

2) This, and similar stories, has been going on since 2014. In fact, a federal judge found that the Obama Administration was violating the a previous law (Flores) in regards to treatment of immigrant children. The judge stated the conditions were “widespread and deplorable”, and neither safe nor sanitary. The only difference between now and then, is that back then the women and children were allowed to be kept together. But they were kept in similar conditions, for the purpose of deterring illegal immigration.

3) Back in 2014-2015 when this was discovered, it was hardly covered, and essentially nobody compared it to the Japanese internment camps, or Nazi Germans. The difference in media coverage between now and then, is astounding. It almost certainly indicates a bias one way or the other.

4) What they did then, what they’re doing now, is wrong. Flat. Out. Wrong. Can’t justify it, can’t defend it...at least I can’t.

5) Blaming one party or the other for this, when both parties are culprits, isn’t helping anything. Somebody somewhere needs to take responsibility and fix it. Enact a quick fix solution, and then work on a better plan going forward, but let’s try to work together and fix it. Working together being the key part that nobody seems to want to do.

6) Politics suck, and more and more, it seems like people themselves just suck. The difference between people like Thriller and people like Trump are negligible, and there are far too many like them. It’s downright depressing.
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1. There is no law mandating separation of families who cross the border. As pointed out numerous times throughout this thread this is a policy change enacted by Trumps DHS to act as a deterrent to asylum seekers and illegal immigrants. If Trump wanted to put a stop to it he could, with a phone call.

2. There's a reason that Obama was called the Deporter in Chief. I think the problems we have with these facilities are bigger than any one administration. In my opinion ICE is beyond saving and needs to be abolished.

3. I think a big reason why this is being covered more in the media now is due to Trump himself bringing immigration to the forefront with his rhetoric in speeches and on twitter. One thing Trump excels at is driving the media's narrative. Keep in mind, Obama never called immigrants animals or accused them of infecting our country. That stuff matters.

4. Our immigration policies need a huge overhaul, and have for ages. Its not controversial to say that we've failed on this front for decades. Trump, however is turning a problem into an humanitarian crisis.

5. Again, Trump could end this policy of family separation of border crosses with a phone call. And there's a bill in the senate with 49 senators that would also end this practice. (those 49 senators are all Democrats by the way). This incessant need to 'both sides' every issue is ridiculous. The GOP has every lever of power in the federal government.

6. That's just ludicrous. Thriller is a partisan to be sure, but he's not a white supremacist. So he's got that in his favor over Trump.
 
Trump describing immigrants as “infesting” should ring shockwaves throughout the world. It’s calculated. It’s despicable. And it’s a huge warning sign. Dehumanizing groups of people by describing them in such terms has preceded every genocide of the past 100 years. In particular, the Holocaust and Rwanda.

I know many might look at us social studies folks as being paranoid. But we’re worried for good reason. We are quickly sliding into fascism. Where does this take us and when will the American people decide that they’ve had enough? Will it be too late?

 
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