17 years in prison for an idiot who shot drunk woman.

[fishonjazz]

again not all public places are gun free zones.
there are shopping malls, mcdonalds, movie theaters where concealed CARRY is allowed are NOT gun free zones.
whole fricking counties and states being guns allowed zones. why is there no mass shooting there?

There are shootings in those guns allowed zones

 

[fishonjazz]

Ok, why am I even trying to debate with someone of as limited intelligence and reasoning capacity as DutchJazzer??

I have been asking myself this same question

 

[fishonjazz]

Well, no guns in schools is a dismal failure.

We don't really know that.
It's possible that if guns were allowed in schools shooting would increase. We don't really know

 

[Revolution 9]

im glad my neighbors arent "packin" here.

i can knock on their doors without fear.

 

[fishonjazz]

i have had "military: style guns pointed at me in real live and death situation.
and no i was not scared and never will be.

You are probably too dumb to get scared.

 

[LogGrad98]

We don't really know that.
It's possible that if guns were allowed in schools shooting would increase. We don't really know

That is possible, but it doesn't mean that we do not have enough evidence to say that making schools "no-gun" zones hasn't failed to stop school shootings in and of itself. Maybe we need to try the reverse and see.

Then again, that is the case on military bases, where nearly everyone is armed, and they still have mass shootings.

Maybe it means it does not matter and that bad people will find a way to do bad things no matter how hard we try to stop them. Hell, supposedly God walked and talked with Cain and Abel and look how that turned out.

 

[fishonjazz]

Maybe it means it does not matter and that bad people will find a way to do bad things no matter how hard we try to stop them.

I agree with this. Maybe we can't do anything about these crazy mass murdering people or intentional killing.

I do think that if America had les guns in general that there would be less accidental deaths though.

And I think that by not allowing guns in schools, you help to limit the accidental shootings

 

[LogGrad98]

I agree with this. Maybe we can't do anything about these crazy mass murdering people or intentional killing.

I do think that if America had les guns in general that there would be less accidental deaths though.

And I think that by not allowing guns in schools, you help to limit the accidental shootings

I would hope that is true, but at the same time maybe a slight rise in accidental shootings in schools would be more than offset by stopping mass shootings in schools, which history shows us has been a fairly consistent thing since guns have been invented. It is a tough question to answer. You just cannot know the effects beforehand. But is it worth it for some gun-toting teacher to accidentally kill a student if another gun-toting teacher stops a mass-killer before he can off 50 kids?

 

[fishonjazz]

maybe a slight rise in accidental shootings in schools would be more than offset by stopping mass shootings in schools,

I agree but......

it does not matter and that bad people will find a way to do bad things no matter how hard we try to stop them.

 

[[size/HUGE] boobs [/size]]

ok then explain to me why universities and college that allow guns on campus have never. had a mass shooting. or shopping malls. or movie theathers.

elementary schools are not the only gun free zones bra

There would not be any if you have high police state so criminals are scared to commit. I read old men do not steal the small pocket items from hardware store very much anymore because of surveillance camera.

 

[DutchJazzer]

You are probably too dumb to get scared.

or more eductated on human nature, and more educated on bullying.
and bluffing techniques then you realize.

for instance this one time somebody had a rifle pointed in my face. i was with some friends. out in the woods. and they where all scared and ****. little did they know the rifle was on safety by accident or not. so why would be scared. i hjandled the situation.

so think what you want.

also fact is as a jew i have learned to live and cherish life but not be afraid of the afterlife. so what if i die by a gun standing for what i think is right.

 

[DutchJazzer]

I agree with this. Maybe we can't do anything about these crazy mass murdering people or intentional killing.

I do think that if America had les guns in general that there would be less accidental deaths though.

And I think that by not allowing guns in schools, you help to limit the accidental shootings

so you wannna stop accidents from happen. so i stubbed my toe on a table and a bed. its an accident. in yoru logic i should ban tables and beds from my home.

accidents are a part of live. deal with it

 

[fishonjazz]

All the guns I have shot that have safeties are really easy to put into fire mode.

 

[♪alt13]

Law abiding citizens in Japan have no access to guns and nobody has any problem with that.
Obviously stats show that there is to many of USA citizens who do not abide laws whatsoever. And your gun laws are loser than LogGrad's poops. So having lose laws and average Joe mentality that " hey I can have a gun so lets have it just for **** sake need or no need" leads to USA being top country in gun related death, crimes and accidents. I guess you guys are proud being on top no matter what TOP it is huh?

For all your talk about science and reason you don't seem to apply that mentality to this issue. First talking about firearm deaths is silly. The issue is whether firearms increase the numbers of total Homicides, Suicides, and accidental deaths. Further the argument that guns reduce the instances of rape, armed robbery, assault, total homicides, etc should be considered in any objective statistical critique of gun ownership.

Everyone in the gun control camp understands that there are a whole host of reasons why one cannot make direct comparisons between Chicago and Salt Lake City. Y'all seem to forget this when trying to compare the US to places like Japan.

We can (as I have already explained to you)come to some tentative conclusions about the effectiveness of gun control by comparing someplace to itself before and after gun control measures. I'm sure that the more intelligent and sophisticated people within the gun control movement understand all of this. So why don't we hear them making these, what would be, very compelling arguments for the link between gun control and public safety: Because the data simply does not support their position.

I already pointed out in another thread the increase in the homicide rate and overall violent crime in the UK since the handgun ban. I also brought to your attention the decrease of the homicide rate since expiration of the assault weapons ban in the US. If you want to make a rational statistical argument for gun control or point out logical or factual flaws in my position then do it. I don't think, however, anyone should take your comparison of Japan and the US seriously.

Final thoughts

Statistics are not the basis for my position although it helps that they support it. Among the reasons for my position is that I am an individual and as such have the inherent right to protect myself and my family from harm from any person or group be they legally sanctioned or not. A firearm is a reasonable tool with which to do that.

 

[DutchJazzer]

There would not be any if you have high police state so criminals are scared to commit. I read old men do not steal the small pocket items from hardware store very much anymore because of surveillance camera.

if you believe surveillance cameras deter crime i got a septic tank full of gold to sell you. for 200 bucks

 

[fishonjazz]

if you believe surveillance cameras deter crime i got a septic tank full of gold to sell you. for 200 bucks

I was thinking of stealing something from a store one time and then noticed a camera in the ceiling pointed at me and I decided not to steal

 

[fishonjazz]

so you wannna stop accidents from happen. so i stubbed my toe on a table and a bed. its an accident. in yoru logic i should ban tables and beds from my home.

accidents are a part of live. deal with it

I think that stubbed toes are not as bad as getting shot.

Stubbed toes do suck though...... probably why they invented shoes

 

[DutchJazzer]

All the guns I have shot that have safeties are really easy to put into fire mode.

but a plit second between moving his finger from the trigger to safety back to trigger. would give me all the time to counter

 

[fishonjazz]

split second

all the time

Hmm

 

[DutchJazzer]

I think that stubbed toes are not as bad as getting shot.

Stubbed toes do suck though...... probably why they invented shoes

ooh wow where have you been all my live.,. i jsut threw away all beds tables and chairs in my home.
if only i knew wearing shoes 24/7 was a solution.

in all seriousness accidents happen from sille stubbed to to losing limbs. to death. we dont go around banning all those inanimate object